Aboriginal Races of Frontier prior to the Pashtun invasions

[ghoul]

LOL

I teach. I don't dictate. Please feel free to adhere to whichever version suits you. We have some like you in India as well; they are currently in the process of informing us that Hindus had invented planes, nuclear devices, plastic surgery sufficiently advanced to exchange an elephant's head for a human's, and so on. So after those rapes, your little sexual impropriety is quite bearable.

Neither history nor anthropology deals with colour, in the way this thread has. Let me give you a link, which you - barely - might find useful. I am sceptical, but, hey, why not just try?


Bolstered by some nationalist and ethnocentric values and achievements of choice, this concept of racial superiority evolved to distinguish from other cultures, that were considered inferior or impure. This emphasis on culture corresponds to the modern mainstream definition of racism: "Racism does not originate from the existence of 'races'. It creates them through a process of social division into categories: anybody can be racialised, independently of their somatic, cultural, religious differences."[66]

This definition explicitly ignores the biological concept of race, still subject to scientific debate. In the words ofDavid C. Rowe "A racial concept, although sometimes in the guise of another name, will remain in use in biology and in other fields because scientists, as well as lay persons, are fascinated by human diversity, some of which is captured by race."[67]

Until recently, this racist abuse of physical anthropology has been politically exploited. Apart from being unscientific, racial prejudice became subject to international legislation. For instance, the Declaration on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination, adopted by the United Nations General Assembly on November 20, 1963, address racial prejudice explicitly next to discrimination for reasons of race, colour or ethnic origin (Article I).[68]

Happy New Year.

Lol uncle, relax. I don't see a single post here which implies racism. Racism is making derogatory remarks about individual based only on their colour or race. I didn't see anyone doing that. Saying an African American is black skinned and a White American is white skinned is not racism. It's a fact.

And equating me with those rapists and hindutva extremists is totally uncalled for. I still don't see in which post I implied racism. Saying that an Awan is lighter skinned and more "caucasoid" looking than a kammi(a.k.a miscellaneous/serf tribes) is not racism. It's reality, which can't be denied. And if these statements imply racism, than don't blame me, blame the people who take on fake surnames. If a gypsy tribe is claiming a Pashtun origin, then their bluff needs to be exposed right?

 

[Armstrong]

I enjoyed parts of this thread, but I have to say that I am amazed at the utterly racist, bigoted attitude that the main posters have displayed so consistently. What is this obsession with colour, and with Caucasian features, and with stereotypes?

If these had not been so abominable, they would have been comic. Where have you Neanderthals been all your lives?

@SarthakGanguly - Is Joe Sahib indirectly calling me a Neanderthal ?

Oh come on Sarthak surely you don't mind when I say that I belong to a superior race and that you're a brownie ?

I mean brownies are good especially the chocolate chip ones !

Besides we're Kashmiris; racism is a part of our culture !

Waiseee jokes aside; I dunno why complexions, features etc. - such cosmetic things - are still so prevalent as important features in today's world ?

The worth of a person lies in his actions not whether hes a blue eyed blonde or char coaled black !

And this talk of brownies is making me hungry; oh how I miss the Oatmeal Brownies that the bakery near my place used to make !

 

[Joe Shearer]

Oops! Were you on this thread at all? And what is this new habit of addressing me through the good offices of Sarthak the gondogol?

Lol uncle, relax. I don't see a single post here which implies racism. Racism is making derogatory remarks about individual based only on their colour or race. I didn't see anyone doing that. Saying an African American is black skinned and a White American is white skinned is not racism. It's a fact.

And equating me with those rapists and hindutva extremists is totally uncalled for. I still don't see in which post I implied racism. Saying that an Awan is lighter skinned and more "caucasoid" looking than a kammi(a.k.a miscellaneous/serf tribes) is not racism. It's reality, which can't be denied. And if these statements imply racism, than don't blame me, blame the people who take on fake surnames. If a gypsy tribe is claiming a Pashtun origin, then their bluff needs to be exposed right?

OK, OK, calm down. I didn't equate you, personally, with anyone or anything. It was the whole pack of you, if that makes you feel better. But as it very obviously isn't, I shall keep a very low profile hereafter. Carry on with the coon-bashing.

 

[ghoul]

Oops! Were you on this thread at all? And what is this new habit of addressing me through the good offices of Sarthak the gondogol?



OK, OK, calm down. I didn't equate you, personally, with anyone or anything. It was the whole pack of you, if that makes you feel better. But as it very obviously isn't, I shall keep a very low profile hereafter. Carry on with the coon-bashing.

No one is bashing anyone here. You should share historical knowledge here. It would be much appreciated.

 

[Joe Shearer]

No one is bashing anyone here. You should share historical knowledge here. It would be much appreciated.

I would love to, only in this particular case, it would be more anthropological. On the other hand, some developments, and support for those developments, back in India are so frustrating, so depressing that I am really not in the mood, just now. The Indians commenting were bad enough; when some of those I have great regard for, among the Pakistanis, joined in, I completely lost hope.

Give me a while. but do carry on. Some parts of the discussion were fascinating. I was really paying very close attention.

 

[Kabira]

@Samandri Are pathans of India fake? 99% of them don't look like the ones in Afghanistan? What about Hindus and SIkhs who claim to be pathans and look like Pathans?

Are Pathan and Baloch racially different? Do they inter-marry?

I don't think hindu/sikhs pathans exist or either look like pakhtuns.

Map of Gandhara region, i have seen many people confusing Kandahar and Gandhara.

 

[mujhaidind]

I don't think hindu/sikhs pathans exist or either look like pakhtuns.Map of Gandhara region, i have seen many people confusing Kandahar and Gandhara.

Are Balochs and pathans racially similar? Are punjabis related to these two racially?

 

[Kabira]

Are Balochs and pathans racially similar? Are punjabis related to these two racially?

Indic people of Pakistan are not related to Pakhtuns. Genetically both are distinct people, but non-kami/dalit people of punjab are closer to them genetically maybe implying the fact that main punjabi biraderi ancestors have origin somewhere in central asia long time ago.

I still believe that the word "Kandahar" is a Pashto rendition for Gandhara. The capital of Gandhara was Taxila in modern day Rawalpindi district.

As for complexions and stuff. Well, those things are unavoidable when discussing subjects such as these. History and anthropology goes hand in hand. Pakistan is one of the most diverse countries in the world.



It's remarkable how similar the "caste system" of Swat is to the Potohar. Weavers here are called "Julahas". Land-owners and warriors are Rajputs, Awan and Gakkhars. Sesame oil farmers are called "Teli", which is also a derogatory term for a dark skinned person. A barber is called a "nai". Ministrels and singers are called "Dom-mirassi". Brick kiln workers are called mussali. All barbers, ministrels, weavers, mirassi etc are collectively known as "kammi", which means a low-borne, landless peasant. Another interesting thing about Potohar, everyone except a Rajput, Gakhar, Khattar, Awan, Mughal and Syed is collectively labelled "jatt", despite there being some proper Jatt clans like Cheemas and Chatthas living there. Even a nai is labelled a "jatt" here.

And you might be right about miscellaneous races claiming to be Yousafzais. Similar things can be seen quite often here. A lot of miscellaneous people from Potohar claim to be Awans or Janjuhas, despite not being such. For some reason they never claim a Gakhar origin. The Jhelum settlement report mentioned that a lot of Arayeens from Jhelum and Chakwal districts gave their clan(called "biraderi") as Janjuha rajput or Awan to the British authorities. You'll be surprised how low some people can get.

What about Gujjars in Jhelum? They seem to be quite dominat there politically.

 

[mujhaidind]

Indic people of Pakistan are not related to Pakhtuns. Genetically both are distinct people, but non-kami/dalit people of punjab are closer to them genetically maybe implying the fact that main punjabi biraderi ancestors have origin somewhere in central asia long time ago.

Ok. What do you mean by Indic? Only north-west or rest of India too.

BTW i want to discuss race with you somewhere else? Any other forum to do so?

 

[ghoul]

What about Gujjars in Jhelum? They seem to be quite dominat there politically.

Jatts also have a strong vote bank. In terms of land ownership and social position, Gujjars are very ill reputed and small scale landowners. And it's the first time any Gujjar won the election, but it was due to PML-N ticket more than anything. The gujjar population is quite high that a few MP seats need to be adjusted with them in every election. It's all about population now than anything. The gujjars of Jhelum get active political support from the Gujjars of Gujrat, who are very dominant in their district.

As for the original jatts here. Some of them are very independent but some pure jatt tribes like Tarrar are reduced to pure serfdom.

 

[Kabira]

Ok. What do you mean by Indic? Only north-west or rest of India too.

BTW i want to discuss race with you somewhere else? Any other forum to do so?

I don't post in anyother forum. By indic i mean people of Pakistan who speak indo-aryan language.

 

[mujhaidind]

I don't post in anyother forum. By indic i mean people of Pakistan who speak indo-aryan language.

So all Indian are dravidians or something else. Except a few.I should assume. According to your

 

[Armstrong]

I love brownies. With rum.

Browniesssss....

@Joe Shearer Bhai nei lift hiii nahin karvaiii !

 

[Samandri]

I enjoyed parts of this thread, but I have to say that I am amazed at the utterly racist, bigoted attitude that the main posters have displayed so consistently. What is this obsession with colour, and with Caucasian features, and with stereotypes?

If these had not been so abominable, they would have been comic. Where have you Neanderthals been all your lives?

Stop trolling, hindustani. You are going consistently off-topic and i didnt say any thing about it to you but now you have blamed me and others of racism and bigotry, keep your inferiority complexes to yourself.....discussing "aboriginal races" is not racism but history. If you are sensitive to such topics, dont bother to visit it.

@Samandri Are pathans of India fake? 99% of them don't look like the ones in Afghanistan? What about Hindus and SIkhs who claim to be pathans and look like Pathans?

There are large number of descendents of Pashtuns in various parts of India. They wont exactly look like Pashtuns as they are settled there since centuries and have intermingled with local muslims. They have also lost pashto language and culture long ago but some of their customs and vocabulary speaks of their pashtun roots. Here is research article on them
Study of the Pathan Communities in Four States of India

 

[Joe Shearer]

Stop trolling, hindustani. You are going consistently off-topic and i didnt say any thing about it to you but now you have blamed me and others of racism and bigotry, keep your inferiority complexes to yourself.....discussing "aboriginal races" is not racism but history. If you are sensitive to such topics, dont bother to visit it.


Hey, whats up with your superiority complex?.......i remember you have very loose connection with your pashtun roots, what if some pashtun tell you that you dont look or feel like a pashtun?.....stop looking down upon races.


There are large number of descendents of Pashtuns in various parts of India. They wont exactly look like Pashtuns as they are settled there since centuries and have intermingled with local muslims. They have also lost pashto language and culture long ago but some of their customs and vocabulary speaks of their pashtun roots. Here is research article on them
Study of the Pathan Communities in Four States of India

Crying about something low down after being caught doesn't mean anything. And not only I, you and everyone else should be sensitive to your constant harping on colour and caste. Aren't you ashamed of yourselves? It isn't about the discussions on aboriginal races, but about your pretty primitive obsession with who is fair and who is dark, and who belongs to which caste.

Pathetic.