Aboriginal Races of Frontier prior to the Pashtun invasions

[ghoul]

Gakhars don't claim to be from Afghanistan. They say they came from a region in Iran called "Kiyan". They use the surname "kayani", which was an actual surname used by the Persian nobility. Persian king also recognized Gakhars claim to persian hood and they backed Hamayun against Sher Shah Suri on the behest of the king of Persia according to ain-e-akbari. There's no evidence of them getting displaced or anything. They were originally settled in Mirpur before they defeated the Janjuas who were the rulers of Potohar.

Khattars claim varying origins. Some say they're related to Awans, while a few of them claim rajput descent.

And suleman mountains might be a myth or misinformation to be honest. Who mentioned pakhtun origins in suleman mountains? And Pashtuns have historically always claimed a bani israel origin, which can't be completely denied. Recently hebrew texts were dug up in Afghanistan, and a lot of pakhtuns show features quite similar to them.

 

[ghoul]

Durranis migrated to Kandhar region from Koh suliaman range in 14th century , they are branch of tareens. There is possibility that abdalis, along with other Pashtun tribes of Koh Suleiman range might be remnants of hephthalites. The Kakar country was previously inhabited by Dadi tribe who was mentioned by Herodatus, they are nowadays largely absorbed by kakars.

Ghilzai themselves differ with khilji theory and bibi mato theory, they say that that they are actually ghar-zais, once inhabitants of Ghor, displaced eastward by mongol invasion. And that before ghor, they were inhabitants of Suleiman mountains.

I read a book by some guy called "junjani" or "juzjani" something. I will link it later. It was written in 12th century, and shed light on the origins of ghurids. They were descended from Zuhak, a semi-mythical king of Iran, whose descendants migrated to Ghaur.

 

[dil_dil]

Durranis migrated to Kandhar region from Koh suliaman range in 14th century , they are branch of tareens. There is possibility that abdalis, along with other Pashtun tribes of Koh Suleiman range might be remnants of hephthalites. The Kakar country was previously inhabited by Dadi tribe who was mentioned by Herodatus, they are nowadays largely absorbed by kakars.

Ghilzai themselves differ with khilji theory and bibi mato theory, they say that that they are actually ghar-zais, once inhabitants of Ghor, displaced eastward by mongol invasion. And that before ghor, they were inhabitants of Suleiman mountains.

Basically most of pashtun tribes have origin in Koh Suleiman, Balochistan, at least when they started calling themselves pashtuns before moving out to Afghanistan/KPK?

 

[Samandri]

And suleman mountains might be a myth or misinformation to be honest.

In the 7th century, Hiuen Tsiang, a Chinese pilgrim has described the Afghans as living in Zhob

Al-Biruni referred to Afghans as various tribes living on the western frontier mountains of the Indus River, the Sulaiman Mountains

Ibn-Batuta in 1333 A.D writes,
"We travelled on to Kabul, formerly a vast town, the site of which is now occupied by a village inhabited by a tribe of Persians called Afghans. They hold mountains and defiles and possess considerable strength, and are mostly highwaymen. Their principal mountain is called Kuh Sulayman. It is told that the prophet Sulayman ascended this mountain and having looked out over India, which was then covered with darkness, returned without entering it."

In Tuzk-i-Timuri it is mentioned that emir Timur ravaged the country of awghanis, the Sulaiman mountains.

 

[Samandri]

I read a book by some guy called "junjani" or "juzjani" something. I will link it later. It was written in 12th century, and shed light on the origins of ghurids. They were descended from Zuhak, a semi-mythical king of Iran, whose descendants migrated to Ghaur.

Juzjani wrote The Minhaju-S-Siraj,

I read a book by some guy called "junjani" or "juzjani" something. I will link it later. It was written in 12th century, and shed light on the origins of ghurids. They were descended from Zuhak, a semi-mythical king of Iran, whose descendants migrated to Ghaur.

He wrote Minhaj-i-siraj. Ghurids , it seems, were not pashtuns but not persians either linguistically and were hindus or buddhists rather than zoarastrians like persians. It is possible that ghilzais are not originated from khalaj but ghor. They are not considered true pashtuns by origin by other tribes and there might be some reason for that. Ghilzais live immediately south to abode of hazaras, ghazni is their traditional stronghold.

 

[ghoul]

Juzjani wrote The Minhaju-S-Siraj,
He wrote Minhaj-i-siraj. Ghurids , it seems, were not pashtuns but not persians either linguistically and were hindus or buddhists rather than zoarastrians like persians. It is possible that ghilzais are not originated from khalaj but ghor. They are not considered true pashtuns by origin by other tribes and there might be some reason for that. Ghilzais live immediately south to abode of hazaras, ghazni is their traditional stronghold.

To me Pashtun seems more like a designation like "Punjabi" than a homogeneous ethnic group because apparently some Pashtuns called Nasher claim descent from Ghaznavids too. Maybe over the time, all the pashto speakers mixed together and became a more homogeneous group. But pakhtuns have historically always described their origin as bani israel. Oral history can't really be ignored.

Are waziristanis ghilzai or durrani? And Ghaurids might have spoken dari or Tajiki actually. Dari and Persian are apparently not that similar sounding. They're like Hindko and Punjabi I think.

 

[Samandri]

But pakhtuns have historically always described their origin as bani israel. Oral history can't really be ignored.

Oral traditions are only limited to lineage-tree, tribal history.......the Jewish Afghana part was fabricated by Naimatullah in 1612 on instruction of Khan-i-Jahan Lodhi, that source was then followed by Pashtuns in coming generations.
Every tribe know the name of their progenitor and through lineage tree they can establish links with some tribes (not all), Lodhis collected the lineage-trees of all the tribes and connected all of them to a fake progenitor. The mysterious ones were Karnalri tribes of FATA, they were not fitting into any tribal confederation, one tribe was very differnt from another ones, so were labelled descendents of Karlan who was found on way by Qais and adopted.

For example progenitor of Marwat tribe is person by name of Marwat Khan Lodhi, he is son of Lohan from first wife.........his descendents were called spin or white Lohanis
Mian, tatoor and Daulat were sons from second wife of Lohan and their descendents were called Tor or Black Lohanis.

You can easily tell that all branches of lohanis are related to each other.

Are waziristanis ghilzai or durrani? And Ghaurids might have spoken dari or Tajiki actually. Dari and Persian are apparently not that similar sounding. They're like Hindko and Punjabi I think.

Wazirs, Mehsuds and dawars are neither Ghilzais nor Durranis, they are Karlanri tribes.
Dari and Farsi are one and same language, the former is known for more pure words. Dari or Darbari was language of courts.
Ghurids spoke altogether a different language, not understood by court historian of ghaznavi where dari was spoken. It seems they were distinct eastern Iranian group, who mostly got wiped out by Mongol invasion (the todays inhabitants of Ghor , Aimaks and hazaras are descendents of mongols).
Baihaqi who is considered as the most famous historian of the Ghaznavid era had written in page 117 that "Sultan Mahmud leaves for (jaroos ghoor) “jai darmeshi paat”... and sends his learned companion with two people from Ghor as interpreter between this person and the people of that region. According to Traditional Muslim historians such as Istakhri and Ibn Haukal, the inhabitants of Ghor spoke a language different from that of Khurasan

 

[PakhtunGuy]

Pashtuns are originally from Da Sulaiman Ghar (Koh e Sulaiman) in Southern Pakistan.
Later we spread to Afghanistan and KPK.
The natives were mostly assimilated thats why Pashtuns don't look all the same.
The word "Afghan" is the persian word for Pashtun. Like the Urdu/Indo aryan word Pathan.
Historically the word "Afghan" was used as a synonym exclusively to Pashtun/Pakhtun.
Since the creation of Afghanistan after the fall of Durrani empire "Afghan" was also used to the other people living in Afghanistan.
In conclusion Pashtun/Pakhtun is the only word for us. Neither "Afghan" nor "Pathan".

 

[ghoul]

This is a very interesting topic. The whole Pashtun dominated region + northern hills including Potohar was called Gandhara in the ancient times. The modern day word "Kandahar" comes from that region. The region was populated by many nations according to old sanskrit writings.

First of all there was no "pashtun invasion" as such, as pashtuns claim to have been settled there by Mahmud. There is evidence of KPK, FATA region being under indic speaking peoples. The local languages of southern KP/FATA would be Seraiki and Hindko, and that of northern would be dardic varieties. There have been remains of structures and temples found on the bank west of Indus in Mianwali and DI Khan districts. The western Indus valley would have been populated with people in the past, but I would imagine the mountain ranges to have been sparsely populated. Mahmud Ghazni would have ethnically cleansed the native hindus, and would have settled pashtuns there.

The only Pashtun tribe which talks something about an "invasion" are the Niazis of Esa Khel and Mianwali. They claim to have driven awans from Esa Khel across the salt range. Now their claims might be true, for hindko speaking awans are found in Kohat and Bannu too apparently. Now you talked about awans being called "kammaya" in Kohat region and that they are dark skinned. Now the pure blooded awans of salt range, Khushab regions tend to be quite pale skinned. It's not uncommon to find green eyed, brown bearded awans in Attock, Chakwal etc. The so called "awans" from Kohat, Bannu might be the "kammis"(Punjabi/Pothwari/Hindko word for menials, and dalits/gypsies) under their local awan waderas before pashtun settlements, but would have adopted the awan surname. It's not uncommon for kammis to adopt the surnames of whatever dominant tribes they are serving. Hence you see a lot of Punjabi christians and "chuhras" using the surname "Bhatti", which is actually a dominant rajput tribe in Punjab and ruling the state of Jaisalmer in Rajasthan. But yeah, evidence points that niazi pashtuns indeed drove awans across the Indus, but in Musa Khel, the Niazis themselves got invaded later on. Musa Khel, Mianwali Tehsil+ Kalabagh was taken over by the Gakhars at some point in time, and the niazis east of Indus were more or less subdued by them. I heard somewhere that the Niazis of Esa Khel(west of Indus) do not consider the Niazis of Musa Khel(east of Indus) to be true Niazis. The Niazi territory abruptly ends at Namal, from whence on, the awans become supreme.

But back to ancient history. Here are a few facts. The old name of Jalalabad in Afghanistan was "Adinapur". Now "pur" is a very north west indic sounding name, pointing to the fact that the city might have an indic origin. The old name of Peshawar was "Purushapur". "Puru" is the name of an Aryan clan, Pandavas, fighting in Mahabharata. Some rajput tribes of the northern Punjab, AJK region even claim descent from the purus. The Indian mathematician, Panini was born in Charsadda, and was a Brahmin, again pointing to the fact that maybe the regions was populated by some indic speaking peoples.

 

[Samandri]

This is a very interesting topic. The whole Pashtun dominated region + northern hills including Potohar was called Gandhara in the ancient times. The modern day word "Kandahar" comes from that region. The region was populated by many nations according to old sanskrit writings.

First of all there was no "pashtun invasion" as such, as pashtuns claim to have been settled there by Mahmud. There is evidence of KPK, FATA region being under indic speaking peoples. The local languages of southern KP/FATA would be Seraiki and Hindko, and that of northern would be dardic varieties. There have been remains of structures and temples found on the bank west of Indus in Mianwali and DI Khan districts. The western Indus valley would have been populated with people in the past, but I would imagine the mountain ranges to have been sparsely populated. Mahmud Ghazni would have ethnically cleansed the native hindus, and would have settled pashtuns there.
.

Actually it were series of invasions rather than settlement on one occasion. Mahmud Ghaznavi cleansed much of Hindus from KPK, evident from ruins of Kafir Kot, but migration and settlement of most of Pashtun tribes in KPK started during times of Shahabudin Ghauri.
Dilazak, a karlanri tribe, was perhaps the first Pashtun tribe to settle in KPK, during period of Samanid dynasty between 750 to 850 A.D. They defeated Swatis, Tirahis, Degan , Tanolis etc and their territory was stretched from Khyber-Peshwer to Swat and from Bajaur to Hasan Abdal. They supported Mahmud Ghazanavi in his campaigns. They were dispossessed by khashi (yousafzai etc) , ghoria khels and gagianis in 16th century. Swatis were original inhabitants of Swat, of non-pashtun origin but got pashtunized. Majority of people of Batagram are swatis, speak pashto while those of Kaghan speak hindko.
The history of settlement of other Pashtun tribes in KPK is very complex and i am skipping it, stronger tribe was devouring weaker one in competition for lands and survival. You mentioned Niazis, before conquering Mianwali, they used to live in Lakki marwat, were dispossessed from there by marwats in a war. Before that Niazis were living in Daman (Tank) and had occupied it by defeating Suris and Prangis. Defore Daman, niazis were living in Paktiya region from where they were defeated and expelled by ghilzais. Before that, they used to live in Ghazni, from where they were also defeated and expelled by ghilzais.

 

[sahaliyan]

Malala is very Indic(or desi) looking to me,it's rare to see the Afghani Pashtuns have that look

 

[Samandri]

Malala is very Indic(or desi) looking to me,it's rare to see the Afghani Pashtuns have that look

In swat society, there are true pashtuns of yousafzai tribe, the landowners but big portion of the population of swat, though pashto speaking , is of indic origin...the native population didnt vanish when yousafzais , and dilazaks before them conquered these lands. They were reduced to serfdom, and were assaigned different professions. These castes would introduce themeselves as pashtuns or yousafzais to you...whether malala's family is yousafzai or not, only the locals can tell you that. If you check the census of 1901 or 1911, the true yousafzais are not that great in number in their territories.

 

[ghoul]

In swat society, there are true pashtuns of yousafzai tribe, the landowners but big portion of the population of swat, though pashto speaking , is of indic origin...the native population didnt vanish when yousafzais , and dilazaks before them conquered these lands. They were reduced to serfdom, and were assaigned different professions. These castes would introduce themeselves as pashtuns or yousafzais to you...whether malala's family is yousafzai or not, only the locals can tell you that. If you check the census of 1901 or 1911, the true yousafzais are not that great in number in their territories.

Yousafzai themselves in my opinion were Dardic like their neighbours, the Kohistanis. I say this because Alexander the great had a clash with a tribe called "Aspasioi" in the northern hills. The name "Yousafzai" sounds highly similar to "Aspasioi" or sometimes pronounced "Assapsioi". It sounds like an islamified version of "Aspasioi" to be honest.

Malala is very Indic(or desi) looking to me,it's rare to see the Afghani Pashtuns have that look

Lol it's not rare at all to see "desi"(obsolete and dumb term) looking Qabayli and Afghan pashtuns. There are thousands of desi looking Pashtuns and Baloch despite them being Iranic groups. Pashtuns, Kalash and Baloch on an average have around 20% "South Indian" genetic component according to highly detailed, and high sample DNA studies lately. In comparison, Punjabis and Sindhis have around 30% South Indian component, although low caste Punjabis have around 45% south indian on average. According to genetic maps compiled by numerous sources, Sindhis are closer to Pashtuns than any other Indian group. Lol.

Some groups had very striking results. Rajasthani Jatts on average have 20-25% south Indian component in their genome, and the highest "northern european" component at around 20%.

 

[dil_dil]

Malala is very Indic(or desi) looking to me,it's rare to see the Afghani Pashtuns have that look

It depends on what you mean by indic looking, i don't think she looks normal indic outside north west india (punjab, jammu). For that you will have to see Pakistani christians to get better idea how 99% Indians look.

 

[sahaliyan]

It depends on what you mean by indic looking, i don't think she looks normal indic outside north west india (punjab, jammu). For that you will have to see Pakistani christians to get better idea how 99% Indians look.

Most Pakistani Christians are Dalit converts,right?