Aboriginal Races of Frontier prior to the Pashtun invasions

[mughal arslan shah mirza]

Social status all depends upon land ownership and reputation, which rajas lead with that in Jhelum by far.
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This concept has morphed in the recent past and there are some other factors involved. Recent changes not only concern with land-ownership but mass-politics etc. Rajputs no doubt are the historic nobility of Punjab but there have been changes in semi-feudal social relationships in recent past (past two centuries and so). Rajputs are also outnumbered way more .
For example, Some sources give the number of jatts in Punjab (all Punjab) as 27%. Some give it 25%. Almost all give it around 20+%
Gujjars also outnumber Rajputs multiple times to 1.Arains are also a numerous group.
Heck Awans have such a huge number although they are one parent tribe so to speak. Start adding other groups like Sayyid/Makhdooms , 'punjabi pathan' (huge numbers),Kashmiris (again huge numbers), sheikhs etc. and you get the picture.
In terms of numbers Jatts and Gujjars are way more, most people I've talked to acknowledge at least a 3:1 ratio vis-a-vis Rajputs (when it comes to jatts at least). The numerical core of Punjab is Gujjar, Jatt and Arain etc.

Pure Rajputs are not that big a group in Punjab (I get the 3:1 ratio most of the time and 4:1 somtimes, so what does that make them). This is what I've gathered from talking to people and some of the reports I came across in some sang-e-meel publication. They just don't have enough families, enough people so to speak in all Punjab.This idea of land ownership as the main factor behind status has pretty much morphed for a big part also and has been on a different tangent for the past 2 centuries. Semi-feudalism in its current form is not what it used to be 2 centuries ago or 5 centuries ago.

Rajputs for all intents and purposes have been described as the nobility and the landed aristocracy of all of Punjab pretty much uptill the end of Mughal times but this current era is different because semi-feudal social relationships have changed. When was the last time a Rajput declared 'chauth' or something of the like . Though this would have been common back in the day. This of course is not just going on in South Asia but most of the world to be honest.
Moreover Rajputs were never into micro-management of land as a means of subsistence since the earliest times right uptill the end of the Mughal era. I doubt that even under the Shahis ( Lahore being one of the capitals of it), they were concerned with micro-management of tillable land. Even in the chaos of post-Aurangzeb era we hear about Rai Panah Bhatti overrunning portions of the Punjab and fighting everybody and anybody lol. Doubt he cared about till-able land the way we do now. This land-ownership at a micro-level as a signifier of certain things is relatively recent.

Also, nowadays we associate different tribes with different geographic regions. This has not always been the exact case. Most groups especially the cavalry based Rajputs moved around large distances throughout Punjab's history most definitely exacting tribute etc. They were never part of one location as we assume now. Rai Panah Bhatti is a very good recent example.
Khokhars overran most of the Punjab multiple times in history .
Gakkhars moved quite flexibly from their seat in eastern potohar and AJK etc.
In and around Ghorid times we hear about a chieftain named Rai Pathora who overran most of Punjab (including Multan and surrounding southern regions) multiple times.Most associate him with the Janjuas.
This social change doesn't only concern land-ownership but mass politics etc.

Basically, point is that things have changed from a social stand-point.

 

[Kabira]

This concept has morphed in the recent past and there are some other factors involved. Recent changes not only concern with land-ownership but mass-politics etc. Rajputs no doubt are the historic nobility of Punjab but there have been changes in semi-feudal social relationships in recent past (past two centuries and so). Rajputs are also outnumbered way more .
For example, Some sources give the number of jatts in Punjab (all Punjab) as 27%. Some give it 25%. Almost all give it around 20+%
Gujjars also outnumber Rajputs multiple times to 1. Arains also (at least from what I've seen and gathered from talking to people with).
In terms of numbers Jatts and Gujjars are way more, most people I've talked to acknowledge at least a 3:1 ratio vis-a-vis Rajputs (when it comes to jatts at least). The numerical core of Punjab is Gujjar, Jatt and Arain.Heck Awans have such a huge number although they are one parent tribe so to speak. Start adding other groups like Sayyid/Makhdooms , 'punjabi pathan' (huge numbers),Kashmiris (again huge numbers), sheikhs etc. and you get the picture.

Pure Rajputs are not that big a group in Punjab (I get the 3:1 ratio most of the time, so what does that make them). This is what I've gathered from talking to people and judged by some of the reports I came across in some sang-e-meel publication. They just don't have enough families, enough people so to speak in all Punjab.This idea of land ownership as the main factor behind status has pretty much morphed for a big part also and has been on a different tangent for the past 2 centuries. Semi-feudalism in its current form is not what it used to be 2 centuries ago or 5 centuries ago.

Rajputs for all intents and purposes have been described as the nobility and the landed aristocracy of all of Punjab pretty much uptill the end of Mughal times but this current era is different because semi-feudal social relationships have changed. When was the last time a Rajput declared 'chauth' or something of the like lol. This of course is not just going on in South Asia but most of the world to be honest.
Moreover Rajputs were never into micro-management of land as a means of subsistence since the earliest times right uptill the end of the Mughal era. I doubt that even under the Shahis ( Lahore being one of the capitals of it), they were concerned with micro-management of tillable land. Even in the chaos of post-Aurangzeb era we hear about Rai Panah Bhatti overrunning portions of the Punjab and fighting everybody and anybody lol. Doubt he cared about till-able land the way we do now. This land-ownership at a micro-level as a signifier of certain things is relatively recent.

Also, nowadays we associate different tribes with different geographic regions. This has not always been the exact case. Most groups especially the cavalry based Rajputs moved around large distances throughout Punjab's history most definitely exacting tribute etc. They were never part of one location as we assume now. Rai Panah Bhatti is a very good recent example.
Khokhars overran most of the Punjab multiple times in history .
Gakkhars moved quite flexibly from their seat in eastern potohar and AJK etc.
During Ghorid times we hear about a chieftain named Rai Pathora who overran most of Punjab (including Multan and surrounding southern regions) multiple times.Most associate him with the Janjuas.
This social change doesn't only concern land-ownership but mass politics etc.

Basically, point is that things have changed from a social stand-point.

These figures are wrong, gujjars are not anywhere near 20% and neither jats or rajputs. Especially gujjars who mostly live in northen areas of central punjab and potohar/ jhelum or even in Azad Kashmir. But talking about punjab they don't make big numbers, probably 4-5% of population. Their % increases in north central punjab.

I also read somewhere that jats and rajputs make 40% of punjab which is exagerated IMO. Jats make 11-12% and rajputs little less maybe at 9-10%. So more like 20% combined. jats, rajputs and gujjars at best make 25% of punjab population. In rural areas tribes should have more % of people, but combined with Punjab urban population not more then 25%. We also tend to forget musalis and other similar tribes who probably make 15-20% of population on their own in Punjab. Not to forget dozens of other tribes, muhajirs, pashtuns, baloch, kashmiris in punjab etc

I have noticed many tribes exagerate their numbers so do not pay attention to jats, rajput or gujjar population figures.

 

[Mr Happy]

What's a Maliar?

@Zaalim

Maliar/Malyar means gardener in Pakhto/Pashto. If used as a surname especially in Afghanistan it denotes the Malyar/Malyarzai/Malyarzoi Pakhtun/Pashtun tribe.

Arain are Indic people. Malyar are Iranic people. Pakhtuns or Pashtuns are Iranic people, more so East Iranic people.

 

[django]

Maliar/Malyar means gardener in Pakhto/Pashto. If used as a surname especially in Afghanistan it denotes the Malyar/Malyarzai/Malyarzoi Pakhtun/Pashtun tribe.

Arain are Indic people. Malyar are Iranic people. Pakhtuns or Pashtuns are Iranic people, more so East Iranic people.

The maliar you are referring to are different to the maliar found in potohar, who are typical punjabi indic folk no different from neighboring castes whilst Pashtuns are clearly an Iranic people.

 

[Mr Happy]

The maliar you are referring to are different to the maliar found in potohar, who are typical punjabi indic folk no different from neighboring castes whilst Pashtuns are clearly an Iranic people.

The Maliar/Malyar in the Potohar Plateau, Azad Jammu and Kashmir, Peshawar area, and Afghanistan are the same people. I am a linguist and etymologist. I am from the Malyar tribe and have wrote a book on the Malyar tribe. Also, my forefathers' are from Azad Jammu and Kashmir. My ethnicity is hence, British Jammuite Pakhtun.

The Maliar/Malyar in Azad Jammu and Kashmir have numerous Pashtun names and also speak quite a lot of Pashto. They have Pashtun features too.

 

[django]

The Maliar/Malyar in the Potohar Plateau, Azad Jammu and Kashmir, Peshawar area, and Afghanistan are the same people. I am a linguist and etymologist. I am from the Malyar tribe and have wrote a book on the Malyar tribe. Also, my forefathers' are from Azad Jammu and Kashmir. My ethnicity is hence, British Jammuite Pakhtun.

The Maliar/Malyar in Azad Jammu and Kashmir have numerous Pashtun names and also speak quite a lot of Pashto. They have Pashtun features too.

I think we will have to AGREE TO DISAGREE.Kudos

 

[Mr Happy]

The maliar you are referring to are different to the maliar found in potohar, who are typical punjabi indic folk no different from neighboring castes whilst Pashtuns are clearly an Iranic people.

Also, I can provide you so much evidence because evidence denotes the truth.
Malyar is used in Pashto. Find me an Indo-Aryan language where Maliar/Malyar is used? Also, Maliar-e-Bala is a place in Golestan Province, Iran.

I think we will have to AGREE TO DISAGREE.Kudos

Well I am from the Malyar/Malyarzai/Malyarzoi tribe and Pakhtun. My forefathers are from Azad Jammu and Kashmir. All Pashtuns/Pakhtuns I have met agree with me that the Maliar/Malyar are Pakhtun/Pashtun. A lot of other people do too because it is based on evidence. I think that suffices.

However, there maybe people who claim to be Maliar/Malyar who are not.

Also, I can provide you so much evidence because evidence denotes the truth.
Malyar is used in Pashto. Find me an Indo-Aryan language where Maliar/Malyar is used? Also, Maliar-e-Bala is a place in Golestan Province, Iran.

I am not here to force anyone. However, I have the evidence and that is what suffices.


Well I am from the Malyar/Malyarzai/Malyarzoi tribe and Pakhtun. My forefathers are from Azad Jammu and Kashmir. All Pashtuns/Pakhtuns I have met agree with me that the Maliar/Malyar are Pakhtun/Pashtun. A lot of other people do too because it is based on evidence. I think that suffices.

I think we will have to AGREE TO DISAGREE.Kudos

However, there maybe people who claim to be Maliar/Malyar who are not.

The maliar you are referring to are different to the maliar found in potohar, who are typical punjabi indic folk no different from neighboring castes whilst Pashtuns are clearly an Iranic people.

Also, I can provide you so much evidence because evidence denotes the truth.
Malyar is used in Pashto. Find me an Indo-Aryan language where Maliar/Malyar is used? Also, Maliar-e-Bala is a place in Golestan Province, Iran.



Well I am from the Malyar/Malyarzai/Malyarzoi tribe and Pakhtun. My forefathers are from Azad Jammu and Kashmir. All Pashtuns/Pakhtuns I have met agree with me that the Maliar/Malyar are Pakhtun/Pashtun. A lot of other people do too because it is based on evidence. I think that suffices.

However, there maybe people who claim to be Maliar/Malyar who are not.

Also Pahari and Potohari is not Punjabi.

 

[django]

Also, I can provide you so much evidence because evidence denotes the truth.
Malyar is used in Pashto. Find me an Indo-Aryan language where Maliar/Malyar is used? Also, Maliar-e-Bala is a place in Golestan Province, Iran.



Well I am from the Malyar/Malyarzai/Malyarzoi tribe and Pakhtun. My forefathers are from Azad Jammu and Kashmir. All Pashtuns/Pakhtuns I have met agree with me that the Maliar/Malyar are Pakhtun/Pashtun. A lot of other people do too because it is based on evidence. I think that suffices.

However, there maybe people who claim to be Maliar/Malyar who are not.





Also Pahari and Potohari is not Punjabi.

My dear chap I am from AK, I know hundreds of maliars , not a single one claims Afghan ancestry, nor do they remotely look like Afghans ,they look no different than say a typical Gujjar, however their are people in AK like the Sados (Sadozia) who have Pashtun heritage, I can assure you mailiar look different than Sadozias........have a good day sir.

 

[Mr Happy]

My dear chap I am from AK, I know hundreds of maliars , not a single one claims Afghan ancestry, nor do they remotely look like Afghans ,they look no different than say a typical Gujjar, however their are people in AK like the Sados (Sadozia) who have Pashtun heritage, I can assure you mailiar look different than Sadozias........have a good day sir.

Claiming and knowing can be different. My family look very Pakhtun/Pashtun. I have collected over one hundred Pakhtun family names. We speak quite a lot of Pashto too.

Claiming and knowing can be different. My family look very Pakhtun/Pashtun. I have collected over one hundred Pakhtun family names. We speak quite a lot of Pashto too.

My dear chap I am from AK, I know hundreds of maliars , not a single one claims Afghan ancestry, nor do they remotely look like Afghans ,they look no different than say a typical Gujjar, however their are people in AK like the Sados (Sadozia) who have Pashtun heritage, I can assure you mailiar look different than Sadozias........have a good day sir.

However, I do believe some people can look different because of marrying outside of their tribe, clan etc. Also, some people claim to be from a particular lineage but the claim is not true.

All I am saying in essence the Maliar/Malyar tribe are Pakhtun/Pashtun.

My dear chap I am from AK, I know hundreds of maliars , not a single one claims Afghan ancestry, nor do they remotely look like Afghans ,they look no different than say a typical Gujjar, however their are people in AK like the Sados (Sadozia) who have Pashtun heritage, I can assure you mailiar look different than Sadozias........have a good day sir.

A

My dear chap I am from AK, I know hundreds of maliars , not a single one claims Afghan ancestry, nor do they remotely look like Afghans ,they look no different than say a typical Gujjar, however their are people in AK like the Sados (Sadozia) who have Pashtun heritage, I can assure you mailiar look different than Sadozias........have a good day sir.

You have been polite to me. I appreciate that. I am willing to Skype with you to clarify anything about the Maliar/Malyar if you wish. You are welcome. Thank you

 

[Kabira]

The Maliar/Malyar in the Potohar Plateau, Azad Jammu and Kashmir, Peshawar area, and Afghanistan are the same people. I am a linguist and etymologist. I am from the Malyar tribe and have wrote a book on the Malyar tribe. Also, my forefathers' are from Azad Jammu and Kashmir. My ethnicity is hence, British Jammuite Pakhtun.

The Maliar/Malyar in Azad Jammu and Kashmir have numerous Pashtun names and also speak quite a lot of Pashto. They have Pashtun features too.

Maliar (meaning mali, gardener, etc) isn't pakhtun tribe. This word is literally based on work your ancestors used to do. Teli (oil presser), kumehar, nai, lohar etc These castes in south asia don't necessarily have common origin since they are based on work. But @Braith know more about pakhtun tribes.

Not saying you can't possibly have pakhtun origin but not because of being maliar. You can be descendent of pashtuns who worked as maliars? Not sure.

 

[Braith]

Maliar (meaning mali, gardener, etc) isn't pakhtun tribe. This word is literally based on work your ancestors used to do. Teli (oil presser), kumehar, nai, lohar etc These castes in south asia don't necessarily have common origin since they are based on work. But @Braith know more about pakhtun tribes.

Not saying you can't possibly have pakhtun origin but not because of being maliar. You can be descendent of pashtuns who worked as maliars? Not sure.

May be he is confusing Mayar tribe of Pashtuns ( a branch of wardaks who are settled in Mardan) for maliyar or may be the word has corrupted into Maliyar there....or its just that Maliar caste there is falsely claiming Pashtun roots......

 

[Kabira]

May be he is confusing Mayar tribe of Pashtuns ( a branch of wardaks who are settled in Mardan) for maliyar or may be the word has corrupted into Maliyar there....or its just that Maliar caste there is falsely claiming Pashtun roots......

From what little I know about maliars they are mostly landless people...., they live in villages dominated by other tribes as per British census.

Maliar

The Maliar are a major tribe of the Pothohar, and have often been confused with the Arain tribe of central Punjab, with whom they have no connection. The British officer of Stuart Pearks had admit that their is no connection between the Arains and Maliar caste. He also agrees that the Arain is a different community than Maliar and Arains have Arabic roots.[7] The Arains of Gujrat district, Pakistan completely denied any alleged connections between Arain community with Maliar caste. InKunjah, a town lies just 62.4 km south east of Jhelum district, the Potohar region, Arains are found as being land holding community since centuries. Whereas in the same town Maliars are found as being service providing class and consider a totally different caste than Arain.

The term Maliar is said to from the Sanskrit word Malakara or makers of garland. According to their traditions, their ancestor Mahbub accompanied Sultan Mahmud of Ghazna to India. The Sultan assigned him gardening as a vocation, and as such the community became horticulturists.[98] There is no consensus as to the ethnic identity of this Mahbub. If we accept this account, the community thus settled in India at the start of the 11th Century. Historically, the community was at a disadvantage, particularly in the Peshawar valley, where it suffered at the hands of Pashtun landlords.[99]

Unlike other tribes found in the Potohar region, military recruitment was not open to them, because they were deemed not to be a martial race.

They are found through the Potohar region, with especial concenterations in the Attock District. They also extend into the neighbouring Peshawer valley. There are also a few villages in the Mirpur District of Azad Kashmir.

They are found in just about every village in the Pothohar region, barring the Murree Hills tehsils, as tennants. There are, however a few villages which they occupy as the dominant tribe. In Jhelum District, Dheri Malliaran, Maliar, Kazi Hussain and Rajjo Pindi are two important Maliar villages.

Batala, Chahal, Maniand are important Maliar villages with in Kahuta Tehsil, in Gujar Khan Tehsil Bhatta Maliar and Kant Maliar are important villages and in the Rawalpindi Tehsil, Dhalla, Dughal, Khasala Kalan, Gulidana Maliar, and Salargarh are important villages.[100] In Attock District, Dhok Maliaran in Fateh Jang Tehsil is a major Maliar village.

In Chakwal District, Marjan Maliran is an important village."

 

[Sheikh Rauf]

Now this bull crap is planing to open another front. Game is to open doors for pushtonistan. They dont know yet that it was tribes of fata who took our part of Kashmir and gilgit baltistan and they know how to defend either militarly or thru some some conspiracy..
There isnt any detail about afghani tribe how cud it only focus on just some pakistani areas..
India is loser and they using other venue to look for new humiliation.