ABM for Pakistan...!

[khanasifm]

Pak need just one regiment with 2 battalion with 4 Batteries one Battery for north, one central & one south and one as reserve or may be to cover western area gawadar etc

Average prices is about 1.5 B big one but that eq to 12-15 medium. Range Sam systems like Ly-80

https://thediplomat.com/2018/07/chi...400-missile-air-defense-regiment-from-russia/

 

[ghauri05]

Waste of time.

IK has it right. Get the priorities sorted out. Education, health, environment. What good is war when you wont have water to drink?

that's idealizm..n that's IK's problem..he is not pragmatic...tell me what good is school,hospitals etc when you won't have a country coz some other douchebag invaded your country and you didn't take any measures to defend it

 

[LeGenD]

@jamahir

Position a PAC-3 MSE battery in Lahore and some Tactical Ballistic Missiles (TBM) in Amritsar. Next, fire the TBM towards Lahore, and then watch the show. Chances are really high that not a single TBM will touch the surface of Lahore.

Of-course, MDS significantly vary in capabilities by design and algorithmic sophistication in each. In-fact, few can produce excellent results at present, and these few are in the inventory of Israel and US only (PAC-3 MSE and ARROW 3 being notable examples). Others lagging behind.

My point is to have something in our inventory, to understand what this game is all about - as a bare minimum. I understand that Pakistani economy leave little room for us to explore expensive stuff.

 

[jamahir]

@jamahir

Position a PAC-3 MSE battery in Lahore and some Tactical Ballistic Missiles (TBM) in Amritsar. Next, fire the TBM towards Lahore, and then watch the show. Chances are really high that not a single TBM will touch the surface of Lahore.

Of-course, MDS significantly vary in capabilities by design and algorithmic sophistication in each. In-fact, few can produce excellent results at present, and these few are in the inventory of Israel and US only (PAC-3 MSE and ARROW 3 being notable examples). Others lagging behind.

My point is to have something in our inventory, to understand what this game is all about - as a bare minimum. I understand that Pakistani economy leave little room for us to explore expensive stuff.

I don't have that much knowledge about missile systems but hasn't the Patriot system failed in Saudia while trying to intercept Scud-type missiles from Yemen??

 

[Ultima Thule]

I don't have that much knowledge about missile systems but hasn't the Patriot system failed in Saudia while trying to intercept Scud-type missiles from Yemen??

Its PAC-2 which is basically a anti aircraft system with a minimum ABM capabilities @jamahir

 

[jamahir]

Its PAC-2 which is basically a anti aircraft system with a minimum ABM capabilities @jamahir

Okay, thanks for that.

I was searching for the Russian equivalent for PAC-3 and found this text :

The most interesting feature of Russia’s missile defense system, at least to Americans familiar with their government’s recent efforts to field effective ballistic missile defense systems, is that Russian missile interceptors are armed with low-yield nuclear warheads. There is some debate over whether or not the warheads are always loaded, or whether they are in storage.

Isn't this a bad idea?? What if the ABM misses and falls back over the land it is meant to defend??

And the same article has the below, which is interesting :

Russia has never shown great enthusiasm for missile defense. In the Soviet Union, missile defense efforts were pushed on the military by the defense industry, Podvig explained.

“The role of missile defense was never clearly defined. It was a system in search of a mission,” Podvig said. “In any event, everyone I’ve talked to in Russia (including those building missile defense systems) were quite skeptical (or, I would say, realistic) about the capability that [missile defense] can provide.”

But Russia’s capabilities are arguably more effective, in certain regards, than their American counterparts. While the U.S. continues to obsess over reliably solving the physics problems of hitting a bullet with a smaller bullet, Russia is playing “Asteroids” — the classic arcade game. No need to be precise: Just get an interceptor close enough and detonate a small nuke.

And this approach is not something that Russia is pursuing for blanket coverage of its massive territory. Virtually all of Russia’s intercept capabilities are focused on Moscow, the beating heart of a strongly centralized social and political structure. Not too much is known about these defenses, but a line of nuclear-tipped interceptors is said to circle the city.

 

[Ultima Thule]

Okay, thanks for that.

I was searching for the Russian equivalent for PAC-3 and found this text :


Isn't this a bad idea?? What if the ABM misses and falls back over the land it is meant to defend??

And the same article has the below, which is interesting :

I think its a version of S-300 that is comparable to PAC-3, i am just guessing @jamahir

 

[LeGenD]

I think its a version of S-300 that is comparable to PAC-3, i am just guessing @jamahir

Different ABM system (A-135), deployed in Moscow only.

S300 P = PAC-2
S300 V = PAC-2 GEM
S300 PMU = PAC-2 GEM-T
S300 PMU2 and S-400 = PAC-3

No Russian equivalent for PAC-3 MSE yet. South Korea would be the first country to receive PAC-3 MSE.

I don't have that much knowledge about missile systems but hasn't the Patriot system failed in Saudia while trying to intercept Scud-type missiles from Yemen??

Patriot Variants

PAC-2: The Patriot PAC-2 interceptor was the first to be used for missile defense during the Gulf War. It consisted of a single stage, ground- launched interceptor with a high-explosive warhead designed to explode near incoming missiles and disrupt their flight.

PAC-2 GEM: The Patriot Guidance Enhanced Missile (GEM) improved the original PAC-2 interceptors by upgrading the seeker, allowing it to intercept low radar signature targets more effectively, and also the proximity fuse to accomplish better detonation near ballistic missiles.

PAC-2 GEM-T: The GEM-T is an upgrade to the PAC-2 interceptors that gives the system a new fuse and systems that make its radar more sensitive to targets with small radar signatures.This allows the GEM-T to defeat more air-breathing capabilities as a complement to upgraded PAC-3 missiles within an integrated air and missile defense system.

PAC-3: While earlier PAC-2 missiles were all blast fragmentation interceptors, the PAC-3 increases effectiveness with hit-to-kill interceptor systems. Patriot launchers that have been appropriately modified can also carry 16 PAC-3 interceptors in contrast to being able to load four PAC-2 missiles.

PAC-3 MSE: The PAC-3 missile segment enhancement achieves greater speeds and maneuverability through a more powerful rocket motor and larger tail fins to allow it to defeat more advanced ballistic and cruise missiles.

KSA have PAC-2 variants in large part and a few PAC-3 standard. KSA does not have PAC-3 MSE yet.

Data of intercepts and misses over KSA here: https://missilethreat.csis.org/missile-war-yemen/

PAC-3 MSE is a wonderful system by any measure - huge leap from earlier variants. However, any MDS is effective within its defined range, and not the endgame.

PAC-3 MSE in action:

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Will Pakistan is Going for Any ABM system?

yes for now we are using advanced peshawari chapil!

 

[Peaceful Civilian]

ABM is out of our league, however Russian Pantsir-S1 can be good option for defense against cruise missiles, provided Russia sells us the system.

Brahmos is fast and furious, and next version Hypersonic brahmos is already in development. This is world fastest missile. All defense system will fail against most hypersonic missiles.
Panister S 1 system will not able to destroy hypersonic missile. It may be able to detect, but no time to destroy hypersonic & very less probibility to destroy supersonic missile as well.

 

[vizier]

If you want to protect a static site like airfield, nuclear installation or similar Buk type of systems would prove to be useful. It will be a saturation attack as we see often in Syria case with dozens of cruise missiles launched at the same target. New variants like Buk M3 for example can engage upto 36 targets simultaneously. Also with about 3000m/s speed it can engage high supersonic targets like brahmos even its upcoming variants.

If you want to protect a static site from a medium range ballistic missile attack and take out high altitude targets from long ranges S300-HQ9 and its new variants would be suitable. Another benefit of high altitude system is if placed intelligently it would also shield your airspace within some 300km radius forcing enemy aircraft to fly lower within your controlled territory and everyone has manpads-shorads these days.

Pantsyr is good for protecting moving columns and shooting on the move. Cruise missiles,long range stand off munition are launched at static targets detected prior by satellites,uavs or similar. For moving targets planes need to come closer and track ground vehicles by ir-radar and they generally use laser guided bombs,missiles from closer ranges by planes or uavs. In that scenario pantsyr types would be pretty useful.

Another potential of pantsyr is as I have mentioned in some previous post. It is a very lightweight system. Each missile weighs about 80kg maybe new variants weigh less than that. It has the potential to give way to a next generation high altitude manpad. Each missile can be carried by 2 soldiers and a separate electro-optical-ir targeting system carried separately by a vehicle or towed by a small vehicle can engage aircraft at 10-12kms altitude. Good for what manpads are for about helicopters and it would be easily carriable, concealable, transferrable anywhere necessary.

 

[LeGenD]

@vizier

American strikes on Syrian regime, were merely posturing with little substance. And all those Pantsyr and co. flopped even in the face of such posturing.

Well-planned decapitating strikes would have brought down Syrian regime in a span of some days, but US will not do this. Syrian regime is necessary to preserve the status-quo. Alternative was fractured alliances across Syria - bad for Israel.

Capable weapon systems produce results in live-fire situations, and those results are visible in relevant footage. Look at the example of PAC-3 MSE in my post above.

This is world fastest missile. All defense system will fail against most hypersonic missiles.

This is for public consumption.

 

[R Wing]

Deterrence via "offense is the best defense" approach.

 

[I S I]

yes for now we are using advanced peshawari chapil!

 

[Abu Zarrar]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1048867337829535744