Abbotabad Report | Discussions, analysis & recommendations.

[Jango]

Lo and Behold...the Abbottabad commission report was sold by an officer of the PM Sectt for 15000$ to Al Jazeera.

Oa paghal insaan, thoray zyada paisay hi mang leta.

 

[Argus Panoptes]

Lo and Behold...the Abbottabad commission report was sold by an officer of the PM Sectt for 15000$ to Al Jazeera.

Oa paghal insaan, thoray zyada paisay hi mang leta.

Pandra lakh mein to ek Corolla bhi nahi aati.

Oh well, the report did mention a US boast that they could buy anyone. Apparently, the law of supply and demand means that the price of any one of us as a commodity is falling.


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============== @Aeronaut @nuclearpak @Oscar @Elmo or any mod: Please approve this post, thanks.

 

[Kloitra]

To be honest I dont agree with that, and I have given my remarks. Civilians might jave some constraints when it comes to Foreign And Defence Policy, but not when it.comes to civil administration.......they had democratic and independent parliament and yet it took them.2 months to form the commission. It was said that the report will be made public in urdu and english and hete we are reading it.from a foreign source.

Talking about what can be done from here than I wont add more to what Oscar has said. A strong and committed leadership.which will bring in the change. A lot could have been done since 2008 but most of the time was wasted

A fledgeling govt, under dark shadow of military. A strong and committed leadership can only emerge after a long period of gruelling, whether it happens during a long civilian term or a revolution. The report makes it clear that govt had minimum authority, how do you expect it to be strong.

But the future seems to be better, and Gen Kayani has helped strengthen the democracy a lot. Now onus is onto people, that how much commitment and character can they force out of their leaders.

Lo and Behold...the Abbottabad commission report was sold by an officer of the PM Sectt for 15000$ to Al Jazeera.

Oa paghal insaan, thoray zyada paisay hi mang leta.

Only proves the point mentioned in report (US diplomat)...
@nuclearpak please check

 

[Jango]

Oh well, the report did mention a US boast that they could buy anyone.

Actually it wasn't the report which said so, it was Pasha. And the American was right...

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Actually it wasn't the report which said so, it was Pasha. And the American was right...

Be that as it may be.......

Reading the Report so far (as much as I have) makes for somewhat depressing and worrisome reading.
While the Intelligence failure(s) seem glaring; it is the chronic failure(s) of the System that should be greater cause for concern. The Higher Authority in every branch (Civilian or Military) acted (if it all did) in ad hoc and totally disjointed fashion so much as to conjure up an image of a "free for all" in the higher echelons. What can one say about that?

@nuclearpak; please do vet this post as necessary.

 

[Jango]

Be that as it may be.......

Reading the Report so far (as much as I have) makes for somewhat depressing and worrisome reading.
While the Intelligence failure(s) seem glaring; it is the chronic failure(s) of the System that should be greater cause for concern. The Higher Authority in every branch (Civilian or Military) acted (if it all did) in ad hoc and totally disjointed fashion so much as to conjure up an image of a "free for all" in the higher echelons. What can one say about that?

This was what I said in post 8.

It was all adhoc...the US had streamlined it's intelligence apparatus after 9/11, they rolled up their sleeves and got down to work. That is what we have to do now.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

This was what I said in post 8.

It was all adhoc...the US had streamlined it's intelligence apparatus after 9/11, they rolled up their sleeves and got down to work. That is what we have to do now.

If I may say so:
The issues were/are not limited to the Intelligence Apparatus. But more with the Policy and Decision making Apparatus, whether Civilian or Military.
There was a paralysis most of the time; when any action did take place it seemed to be in wanton disregard for any procedures. No branch co-ordinated or consulted with any other before attempting to take action as borne out by the testimonies of various top functionaries.

Just to take one example; the reaction by various Officials of Govt. (Civilians) even if confined to the MOFA statements post the Abbotabad incident is so disparate, that there seems to be no coherence whatsoever. This has a throw-back to the statements made earlier in 1999 during the Kargil fiasco.

Even the evidence/testimony proferred shows that critical decisions and understandings post 9/11 onwards esp with GOTUS were simply verbal with no efforts to even record them though they were so grave in their import and consequences. This does not bode well for any rational methods of Governance.

About Intelligence: on the one hand, there seems to be very little of it; while on the other hand there seems to have been too much of it. In the sense that too much power/activity seemed to have been assigned to/or arrogated by a single body that could literally daunt/frighten all other bodies into a state of frozen inaction/thinking. This skewed balance (imo) is a greater cause for concern.

@nuclearpak; if you may-please do the needful.

 

[SQ8]

This was what I said in post 8.

It was all adhoc...the US had streamlined it's intelligence apparatus after 9/11, they rolled up their sleeves and got down to work. That is what we have to do now.

As my post aimed to explain.. that We has very little to say in the we. What possible influence would you.. or all collective Pakistanis of us discussing this right now, be able to make in Islamabad red zone or the GHQ?
Are we capable of gathering the required we? Does it seem right now that even those that have that capacity of introspection and change wish to use that agency and dispense change?

Pessimism never changed anything, but as the conundrum of Pakistani forces in east Pakistan while the IA had entered Dhaka.. what could they have done at that point to change it?
Our problems have already entered the streets of Dhaka.. and try as I might.. I cannot find a realistic outcome that sounds positive or hopeful. So as of right now, we simply have to accept the chaos and wait for it to unfold in Pakistan... and whatever time it takes for this Ojhri camp to settle down.. see what we can salvage.. and it may not necessarily be Pakistan.. but whatever we can salvage for the continuity of our families and their way of life. I apologize for my pessimism.. Ill refrain from further posts as it adds nothing.

 

[Jango]

Agreed.

That is why there was and is a need for a integrated organization which provides an umbrella to all the intel agencies. IB, ISI, FIA, Special Branch etc. At least there should be cooperation in the field of internal intel.

As the report mentions, the internal intel role was taken up reluctantly by the ISI due to the inefficiency of IB and other agencies. This meant that 2 people were working on the same thing. This causes confusion.

After the Diamer attack, Ch Nisar (Interior Minister) said in the parliament that there is no coordination if intel agencies, this report gives us the practical example of what Ch Nisar meant.

A NACTA should be made immediately, with all agencies included in it, as well as PM and Interior Minister and other relevant officials.

 

[Jango]

As my post aimed to explain.. that We has very little to say in the we. What possible influence would you.. or all collective Pakistanis of us discussing this right now, be able to make in Islamabad red zone or the GHQ?
Are we capable of gathering the required we? Does it seem right now that even those that have that capacity of introspection and change wish to use that agency and dispense change?

Pessimism never changed anything, but as the conundrum of Pakistani forces in east Pakistan while the IA had entered Dhaka.. what could they have done at that point to change it?

We may not be able to influence the ones in GHQ or PM House, but we can do something on individual levels.

After all, the guy who processed the land record of OBL house was a normal corrupt land official, the registrars, the other small time officials. All of them were common Pakistanis, not a guy with 2 stars on his shoulder.

We as a nation have to collectively stand up. The report says that it was a collective failure of the agencies and government machinery, but looking at the broader picture, it is a failure of us as a nation. We need to stand up and improve ourselves. Charity begins at home. You improve yourself, I improve myself. Our children become improved. The next generation becomes improved...The whole country acts like a single nation.

What we can do is stop supporting TTP, having a foot long beard and shalwar knee length and openly preaching hatred. We also need to improve.

Putting the blame on the other guy is too easy and Pakistanis love it.

 

[Argus Panoptes]

We may not be able to influence the ones in GHQ or PM House, but we can do something on individual levels.

After all, the guy who processed the land record of OBL house was a normal corrupt land official, the registrars, the other small time officials. All of them were common Pakistanis, not a guy with 2 stars on his shoulder.

We as a nation have to collectively stand up. The report says that it was a collective failure of the agencies and government machinery, but looking at the broader picture, it is a failure of us as a nation. We need to stand up and improve ourselves. Charity begins at home. You improve yourself, I improve myself. Our children become improved. The next generation becomes improved...The whole country acts like a single nation.

What we can do is stop supporting TTP, having a foot long beard and shalwar knee length and openly preaching hatred. We also need to improve.

Putting the blame on the other guy is too easy and Pakistanis love it.

None of that will happen Sir. None of it. It is far too late.

Actually the title of this thread should be changed, or another thread made in this section for discussion:

Pakistan: A case study in Governance Implosion Syndrome.

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============== @Aeronaut @nuclearpak @Oscar @Elmo @Jungibaaz or any mod: Please approve this post, thanks.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

As my post aimed to explain.. that We has very little to say in the we. What possible influence would you.. or all collective Pakistanis of us discussing this right now, be able to make in Islamabad red zone or the GHQ?
Are we capable of gathering the required we? Does it seem right now that even those that have that capacity of introspection and change wish to use that agency and dispense change?

Pessimism never changed anything, but as the conundrum of Pakistani forces in east Pakistan while the IA had entered Dhaka.. what could they have done at that point to change it?
Our problems have already entered the streets of Dhaka.. and try as I might.. I cannot find a realistic outcome that sounds positive or hopeful. So as of right now, we simply have to accept the chaos and wait for it to unfold in Pakistan... and whatever time it takes for this Ojhri camp to settle down.. see what we can salvage.. and it may not necessarily be Pakistan.. but whatever we can salvage for the continuity of our families and their way of life. I apologize for my pessimism.. Ill refrain from further posts as it adds nothing.

Please @Oscar, on a personal note: please do not succumb to such pessimism.
There is/are ways out. One small indicator (if at all) is the fact that one Civilian Govt (good or bad) lasted a full term and another Civilain Govt. (good or bad) took over after an Election (good or bad). This was seen through by the Military Estt. led by a particular General. There can be many opinions (many of them cynical in the extreme) about why the Military Estt. allowed it to happen. Never mind that; I am beginning to think that Gen. Kiyani's lasting legacy to his country may well be that he stepped back and let it happen without attempting to rock the boat (which he very well could have). History will eventually pass judgement on his role (not I). But I am really hoping that the judgement will be positive. And it has little to do with how I view the man.

As I explained in an earlier post in this thread: that both India and Pakistan started off in similar fashion some decades ago and then took differing trajectories (at least in the matter of their citizens would govern themselves). You need to give more time because of the the various (peculiar) circumstances that have attached to your history.
The thinking, rational segment of the Citizenry in your Country (and I believe that they exist in numbers) now have to keep the faith and provide the stability of thought that your Country needs.

"Give Peace a chance" as the people like to say; well, "Give democracy a chance, give your Country a chance".
Oscar, I hope I have not crossed any "red-lines"; if I have, then may I be excused?

@nuclearpak; another time please- to vet this post.

 

[A1Kaid]

Lo and Behold...the Abbottabad commission report was sold by an officer of the PM Sectt for 15000$ to Al Jazeera.

Oa paghal insaan, thoray zyada paisay hi mang leta.

He should be trialed and punished as soon as possible for treason and other suitable offenses.

 

[muse]

This was what I said in post 8.

It was all adhoc...the US had streamlined it's intelligence apparatus after 9/11, they rolled up their sleeves and got down to work. That is what we have to do now.

And all this time later, Have we done it at all? I think there is a message in this --- It's not something the "authorities" want to do - Obviously -- So why not? Why or on the basis of which calculation, have they decided that not acting as you and others have suggested, will accrue more benefits ?

I must admit I'm genuinely puzzled by this Tamasha you lot have made of not naming individuals or assigning blame to particular persons -- you all know which institution is responsible, which institution insists that only it can manage security affairs (call the police).

And then there are those who seem to care more that the report was sold for a paltry amount (if you read the report Us intelligence officers is quoted "You are so cheap, you can be bought for a visa" - instead of focusing on what it suggests as possible remedies.

 

[Rafael]

The Spokesman Pakistan - EJAZ HAIDER-Restructure the intelligence set-up

This article was not allowed to publish and we all know by whom!