A Vision: Union of Japan and Vietnam

[Pakistanisage]

Japanese people are pretty racist people. I would be surprised if they would want to be part of such a Union.

 

[kalu_miah]

Japan will think of such union only when the US will not be able to protect Japan from overwhelming superiority of Chinese military machine. Till then it will sleep, like it has in the last 65 years.

 

[Viet]

Japanese people are pretty racist people. I would be surprised if they would want to be part of such a Union.

In my eyes and due to my experience they are not racist. There are more nations in the world that think they are superior to others.

Japan will think of such union only when the US will not be able to protect Japan from overwhelming superiority of Chinese military machine. Till then it will sleep, like it has in the last 65 years.

Union of states is not only for defence purpose. See European Union.

 

[Viet]

MOFA: Tokyo Strategy 2012 for Mekong-Japan Cooperation

 

[kalu_miah]

In my eyes and due to my experience they are not racist. There are more nations in the world that think they are superior to others.

Union of states is not only for defence purpose. See European Union.

Racism is a common human condition, it is just a bigger version of clannishness and tribalism. But its not a big obstacle for nations to work together for common purpose.

The bigger problem is that Japan since its defeat in WW II, has been occupied by the US and is still protected by the US. In effect, like South Korea, it has become a vassal state of the US. So they are happy to make high quality products, sell them to different countries and have a high living standard. Essentially they have been deceived into thinking that they are de facto part of the West and will be protected under threat.

So this gives them a false sense of security.

Every sovereign nation thinks about its own security and future, first and foremost. Not sure what is going on in Samurai's mind, as we rarely see any Japanese posters here, but if my guess is correct, not much is going on. Their sovereign strategic thinking ended with the defeat in WW II, as far as I can see.

Why I think that way, because they can see right in front of their eyes that China is rising. One day China will compete with the US or even may surpass the US. Who will protect Japan then? The same situation applies to S Korea, but I blame them less, because it is 1/3 the size of Japan, was under Japan for 35 years and is now increasingly Christian as a result of this loss of sovereignty and break in Historical Continuity. S Korea is slowly loosing its way as a nation, I think. Evangelical Christianity is on the rise and increasingly play a role in politics to keep it under US control.

Unions are touted as good for economy, but behind all unions are strategic and security matters. EU was encouraged by the US as bulwark against Soviet expansionism. Till today there is silent tug of war going on between EU and Russia for keeping former Soviet states like Ukraine, Belarus in their sphere of influence. Economy is just one part of this security and strategic dimension.

I think Japan is a lost cause. I used to discuss a ASEAN+ idea, I am not sure if you have seen this thread, which is about Japan and S Korea joining ASEAN to make a strong bloc. But it will not happen in the near future.

For the time being, I think ASEAN nations have little alternative but to accept China as the regional leader and let China play a bigger role in the region. Eventually China is destined to lead all of Asia anyways. So why not accept that leadership and work with them from the start? As a reward and incentive, I am sure China is willing to pay something in return.

Since Japan and South Korea both lost their ways or are not interested in regional matters or do not feel part of this region, China will emerge as the middle kingdom, as it used to be in the past, with tributary states all around, not just in Asia, but increasingly around the world as well. And being immediate neighbors to China, it may not be a bad thing for other neighbor nations. We can all work together to bring the center of gravity of the world back to East Asia, which will benefit all of us, as long as China has a wise leadership, treats everyone fairly and does not impose its will on others.

 

[djsjs]

not fluent?
you mean it is blocked in China?

not fast enough!
yeah youtube is fobbiden in China!
although I'm not a network engineer,it is not difficault to browse youtube.A proxy tool is OK,everyone can easily get it.

 

[Battle of Bach Dang River]

Racism is a common human condition, it is just a bigger version of clannishness and tribalism. But its not a big obstacle for nations to work together for common purpose.

The bigger problem is that Japan since its defeat in WW II, has been occupied by the US and is still protected by the US. In effect, like South Korea, it has become a vassal state of the US. So they are happy to make high quality products, sell them to different countries and have a high living standard. Essentially they have been deceived into thinking that they are de facto part of the West and will be protected under threat.

So this gives them a false sense of security.

Every sovereign nation thinks about its own security and future, first and foremost. Not sure what is going on in Samurai's mind, as we rarely see any Japanese posters here, but if my guess is correct, not much is going on. Their sovereign strategic thinking ended with the defeat in WW II, as far as I can see.

Why I think that way, because they can see right in front of their eyes that China is rising. One day China will compete with the US or even may surpass the US. Who will protect Japan then? The same situation applies to S Korea, but I blame them less, because it is 1/3 the size of Japan, was under Japan for 35 years and is now increasingly Christian as a result of this loss of sovereignty and break in Historical Continuity. S Korea is slowly loosing its way as a nation, I think. Evangelical Christianity is on the rise and increasingly play a role in politics to keep it under US control.

Unions are touted as good for economy, but behind all unions are strategic and security matters. EU was encouraged by the US as bulwark against Soviet expansionism. Till today there is silent tug of war going on between EU and Russia for keeping former Soviet states like Ukraine, Belarus in their sphere of influence. Economy is just one part of this security and strategic dimension.

I think Japan is a lost cause. I used to discuss a ASEAN+ idea, I am not sure if you have seen this thread, which is about Japan and S Korea joining ASEAN to make a strong bloc. But it will not happen in the near future.

For the time being, I think ASEAN nations have little alternative but to accept China as the regional leader and let China play a bigger role in the region. Eventually China is destined to lead all of Asia anyways. So why not accept that leadership and work with them from the start? As a reward and incentive, I am sure China is willing to pay something in return.

Since Japan and South Korea both lost their ways or are not interested in regional matters or do not feel part of this region, China will emerge as the middle kingdom, as it used to be in the past, with tributary states all around, not just in Asia, but increasingly around the world as well. And being immediate neighbors to China, it may not be a bad thing for other neighbor nations. We can all work together to bring the center of gravity of the world back to East Asia, which will benefit all of us, as long as China has a wise leadership, treats everyone fairly and does not impose its will on others.

My friend, I think now China is not able to do that.
They themselves are needing of capitals and technologies... from Japan, the U.S... to feed and creat jobs for millions of their workers.
How can China help poor asian countries (capital, technology, jobs...)?

Crowds of Chinese job seekers queue up outside the Foxconn factory in the township of Longhua in Shenzhen city, south Chinas Guangdong Province, 31 January 2012. Foxconn Technology Group, which manufactures Apple Inc.s iPad, planned to increase staffing on the Chinese mainland by more than 40 percent in 2012 last year. Liu Kun, a spokesperson for Foxconn, said that the factory hired 5,000 people on its first hiring day (29 January 2012) after the Chinese Spring Festival and he has no worry that the company will accomplish its hiring plan before the Lantern Festival which falls on Feburary 6.

Dressed for the factory assembly line, young Chinese women ride the morning shuttle bus to work at the Dalian Fuji Plastics Products Company LTD in Dalian, China. The workers are all from the countryside of surrounding provinces. The Japanese owned facory is located in the Dalian New Industrial Zone.

Images: corbis

 

[kawaraj]

if you don't provide dubs People in Japan will mistake the picture as 1960s Japanese factory workers.

There's nothing to be ashamed of, countries all of the world experience that period. the US in 1940s, Japan in 1960s, Korea in 1980s, or China in 1990s. I like these pictures and my mother in law have a huge collection of those similar photos. To her 1960s's the best time of her life, working hard, enjoying the short break and imagining the futures.

 

[Fanling Monk]

I'm not the type that want to hurt someone's feeling but sometimes it's better to let them know the truth that allow them to dream on. A one side love affair can never be consummated and one side has to be hurt. If you love someone and that someone love someone else, this triangle can be deadly.

Have you heard? She already has a lover and he's handsome, rich and very powerful.

 

[Viet]

Racism is a common human condition, it is just a bigger version of clannishness and tribalism. But its not a big obstacle for nations to work together for common purpose.

The bigger problem is that Japan since its defeat in WW II, has been occupied by the US and is still protected by the US. In effect, like South Korea, it has become a vassal state of the US. So they are happy to make high quality products, sell them to different countries and have a high living standard. Essentially they have been deceived into thinking that they are de facto part of the West and will be protected under threat.

So this gives them a false sense of security.

Every sovereign nation thinks about its own security and future, first and foremost. Not sure what is going on in Samurai's mind, as we rarely see any Japanese posters here, but if my guess is correct, not much is going on. Their sovereign strategic thinking ended with the defeat in WW II, as far as I can see.

Why I think that way, because they can see right in front of their eyes that China is rising. One day China will compete with the US or even may surpass the US. Who will protect Japan then? The same situation applies to S Korea, but I blame them less, because it is 1/3 the size of Japan, was under Japan for 35 years and is now increasingly Christian as a result of this loss of sovereignty and break in Historical Continuity. S Korea is slowly loosing its way as a nation, I think. Evangelical Christianity is on the rise and increasingly play a role in politics to keep it under US control.

Unions are touted as good for economy, but behind all unions are strategic and security matters. EU was encouraged by the US as bulwark against Soviet expansionism. Till today there is silent tug of war going on between EU and Russia for keeping former Soviet states like Ukraine, Belarus in their sphere of influence. Economy is just one part of this security and strategic dimension.

I think Japan is a lost cause. I used to discuss a ASEAN+ idea, I am not sure if you have seen this thread, which is about Japan and S Korea joining ASEAN to make a strong bloc. But it will not happen in the near future.

For the time being, I think ASEAN nations have little alternative but to accept China as the regional leader and let China play a bigger role in the region. Eventually China is destined to lead all of Asia anyways. So why not accept that leadership and work with them from the start? As a reward and incentive, I am sure China is willing to pay something in return.

Since Japan and South Korea both lost their ways or are not interested in regional matters or do not feel part of this region, China will emerge as the middle kingdom, as it used to be in the past, with tributary states all around, not just in Asia, but increasingly around the world as well. And being immediate neighbors to China, it may not be a bad thing for other neighbor nations. We can all work together to bring the center of gravity of the world back to East Asia, which will benefit all of us, as long as China has a wise leadership, treats everyone fairly and does not impose its will on others.

I think you misunderstand how alliance and cooperation work and interact between East Asian countries. Even you obviously don´t know the history between China and Vietnam. I just want to make some comments here, not to all you wrote.

First, Korea and Japan are not vassal states to the US. Think again, America is just a protector, not a master to them. Otherwise you can also call Germany as a vassal.

Second, ASEAN+3 (China, Japan and S. Korea) is a reality. Third, China is indeed rising, but it continues posing a serious threat to others including Vietnam. Intimidation is an usual practice of China today.

 

[Viet]

Originally Posted by Fanling Monk

I'm not the type that want to hurt someone's feeling but sometimes it's better to let them know the truth that allow them to dream on. A one side love affair can never be consummated and one side has to be hurt. If you love someone and that someone love someone else, this triangle can be deadly.

Have you heard? She already has a lover and he's handsome, rich and very powerful.

It is not bad at all to have a choice.


Vietnam, Japan to hold joint cultural activities
10/24/2012 5:54:57 PM | Voice of Vietnam

(VOV) - Japan and Vietnam will co-organise a wide range of cultural activities in 2013 to commemorate 40 years of diplomatic ties.

The agreement was reached at a working session between Vietnam’s Ministry of Culture, Sports and Tourism (MCST) and a delegation of Japan’s Kyushu National Museum in Hanoi on October 24.

Within the cultural activities framework, Japan’s Kyushu National Museum will host two exhibitions on Vietnam next April. It will exhibit 116 significant cultural artifacts from the Vietnam National Museum of History and another 9 from the Thang Long Heritage Conservation Centre.

For his part, MCST Deputy Minister Le Khanh Hai confirmed the Vietnamese contingent will wholeheartedly support the organisation of these exhibitions, so as to introduce Japanese people to the distinctive cultural identity of Vietnam.

He expressed hope that such cultural activities will help strengthen the strategic partnership between the two countries.

Hai added that his ministry is also ready to assist with the organisation of a friendly match between their respective national football teams.

The same day, the two museums signed a contract to jointly host exhibitions in Japan in 2013.

Vietnam, Japan to hold joint cultural activities | VOV Online Newspaper

 

[Fanling Monk]

It is not bad at all to have a choice.

Huh?

You're not past that threshold of 'no return', I hope.

I have to tell you one thing though: I'm glad I'm not a Viet otherwise, the way you're shamelessly selling your countrymen, I wouldn't know where I can hide my face. I wonder how some of your proud compatriots like 5star and Niceguy feel about the way you go about this.

 

[Viet]

Huh?

You're not past that threshold of 'no return', I hope.

No, it is still a long way to go before Japan and Vietnam agree to an union. The foundation to a closer tie is laid. We trust each other, that is the basis for everything.

I presume the US remains as global superpower in this century, and as key military ally of Japan. I wish, Vietnam and Japan may agree to a political/economic union, and of course in military field too as complement. Surely you are right, Vietnam is neither rich nor powerful today. But this is only a snapshot at present.

As the thread says it is a vision.

 

[SinoChallenger]

The Straits Times (Singapore) August 21, 2008

THE Socialist Republic of Vietnam declared its independence on Sept 2, 1945. The declaration came at the tail end of a famine which began in 1944. The famine still haunts the consciousness of many who were alive then.

An estimated two million Vietnamese, or 10 per cent of the population then, died during the famine. By comparison, three million Vietnamese were killed during the Second Indochina War, from 1954 to 1975.

The causes of the famine are hardly in dispute. In 1940, the Japanese army occupied Vietnam but left Vichy France in charge of its administration. By the terms of the May 1941 Franco-Japanese treaty, French Indochina had to supply grains to Japan. From 1941 to 1944, Vietnam supplied 700,000 to 1.3 million tonnes of padi and maize to Japan, roughly equivalent to 50 to 80 per cent of its grain production. And a fairly significant acreage was forced into the production of jute, hemp, cotton and castor-oil plants - also for Japan - thus reducing food production. The wartime destruction of roads and other transport infrastructure made it difficult to transport excess food from southern Vietnam to the north. What ensued was tantamount to genocide.

Many victims walked long distances to provincial capitals, and thousands marched on the capital, Hanoi. Survivors resident there then tell of long lines of ghost-like figures trooping into the city. Hanoi families often found corpses in front of their homes. Huge pits were dug in rural areas near Hanoi for mass burials. The wages paid to burial workers went down by the day, and in Hanoi people were soon burying bodies just for a bowl of gruel. The dead in rural areas were left in the open to rot because people did not have the strength to bury them.

Extreme conditions drove many people to extreme behaviour. The vomit of one became the food of another. People followed horses and oxen to eat the dung or to search for the occasional undigested pieces of food in the dung. Food in the mouth was not necessarily secure, because there were frequent fights to force food out of mouths. People stole, robbed and killed for food.

One family that made cakes for sale reports how it made cakes from earth to guard against theft. Customers would pay for the earth cakes and redeem them for real ones later elsewhere.

There are stories of how infants were eaten up by hungry dogs. Parents would leave their children at home to go look for food, only to find blood and bones in cribs when they returned.

Since Japan and South Korea both lost their ways or are not interested in regional matters or do not feel part of this region, China will emerge as the middle kingdom, as it used to be in the past, with tributary states all around, not just in Asia, but increasingly around the world as well. And being immediate neighbors to China, it may not be a bad thing for other neighbor nations. We can all work together to bring the center of gravity of the world back to East Asia, which will benefit all of us, as long as China has a wise leadership, treats everyone fairly and does not impose its will on others.

Yes China will impose our will on india. Pakistan must be superpower even if it means controlling delhi and northern india.

 

[Götterdämmerung]

No, it is still a long way to go before Japan and Vietnam agree to an union. The foundation to a closer tie is laid. We trust each other, that is the basis for everything.

Europe laid the foundations centuries ago by intermarriage of the ruling families, by having a common cultural and scholastic language, by sharing the same religion, by having intensive trade and thousands of family feuds amongs the ruling families that often ended in destructive wars and we had to go through two world war to come to our senses and came up with the EU – a united Europe – and yet, at times of economic difficuties every one is taking care if its own interest and gives the blame to someone else.

Looking at our own experience, I see nothing that a so called Japan-Vietnam union can ever come true.

But at least it gave me a good laugh.