A Vision of a New Combined Arms Philosophy & Doctrine

[Signalian]

Here is the idea: build the original 1940s / 1950s jeep for the PA in large numbers. Export the same. Could be a first mass produced vehicle for Pakistan. Target - 100,000 jeeps a year for commercial and military use.

70 series TLC

 

[Armchair]

70 series TLC

Competing directly with Toyota would be a bit of a hard bet.

 

[Armchair]

The Ford F 150 is like a super powerful, large Toyota pickup. The Raptor is the off road version. Would be interesting for desert operations in Pakistan (?) Thar and Cholistan.

One could buy these first hand and second hand and uparmor with kevlar. There is also a military versioin.

 

[Armchair]

Here is another medium sized country using the draft to hold out against a bigger neighbor:

 

[Armchair]

Global conscription map:

Purple: 20% conscription
Red: Full conscription
Light blue: no conscription
Yellow: planning to remove conscription
Light Green: no military

 

[Armchair]

Was just re-reading one of @Signalian 's brilliant posts about upgrading Pakistan's 19 infantry divisions:
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/the-infantry-division-of-pa.547663/

This got me trying to think of my Flex Division as an upgraded Infantry division, and kind of water down the ideas a bit to something more practically manageable.

Since our Flex Division is made of conscripts, on average with about 8 months of service (in a first in first out based system with voluntary extensions as outlined before), to match against professional forces (which seems @PanzerKiel 's primary concern), the idea would be to overmatch the brigades.

Where PA's Infantry brigade (as panerkiel noted) has 3000 infantry, the Flex conscripted brigade would have 3500.

ORBAT:
Flex Division
Infantry Brigade 1
Infantry Brigade 2
Infantry Brigade 3

Attached:
1 Artillery Brigade (3 regiments)
Half an MLRS regiment (Signalian's idea of putting MLRS in Infantry Divisions)
1 Armoured Regiment
1 Air defense regiment
1 LAT Regiment
1 Supply & Support Battalion
Half a HAT Regiment
1 Signals Battalion
1 Engineering Regiment
1 Military Police Unit
1 Field Intelligence Unit
1 Field Ambulance Unit
1 Aviation Regiment (with a few helicopters, armed drones, and CAS aircraft)
1 Recon Unit (as Signalian suggests, wheeled armoured and armed APCs)
1 Motorization regiment to project and maneuver forces better equiped with Ford F-150s / Toyota 70 series Land Cruisers

Under-ranking
In the conscript flex divisions (with only 20% technical and officer professional personnel), ranks will be one step below those of the professional army. So if PA is using a Major General to command an Infantry Division, in the Flex divisions, a Colonel would play the role. At the lowest ranks, more experienced conscripts / volunteers will be used to fill the leadership roles, thus maintaining the overall balance of the division.

Summary
Pakistan has two main weaknesses against India that we are attempting to address with new ideas.
1. Smaller army than IA
2. Geographically elongated structure makes defences vulnerable at the strategic level.

What I am suggesting is that using a military draft service and new concepts of combined arms warfare, Pakistan can overcome both these problems.

More so, this can be achieved with very little funding because the military draft does not pay proper salaries and does not have to pay the 101 other additional costs of an all professional force. It does not even need to pay pensions or take care of the children, etc, etc.

It also helps with nation building and giving youth who are unemployed with nothing to do, something that will help build qualities of discipline and structure, that will help them for the rest of their lives.

Additionally, while the professional army hires a lot of mediocre talent, by having conscription, the very best and the brightest can be offered professional positions, increasing the quality of the professional force in the long-term.

Copying @Signalian 's revamp of the Infantry Division, I'd have the following changes for the Flex Division:

A Infantry Brigade:: Infantry Battalion + Infantry Battalion + Mech Infantry Battalion
B Infantry Brigade:: Infantry Battalion + Infantry Battalion + Mech Infantry Battalion
C Infantry Brigade:: Infantry Battalion + Infantry Battalion + Infantry Battalion

Artillery Brigade: Artillery Regt + Artillery Regt + Artillery Regt + MLRS Battery

Which is essentially what Signalian was saying.

 

[PanzerKiel]

Was just re-reading one of @Signalian 's brilliant posts about upgrading Pakistan's 19 infantry divisions:
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/the-infantry-division-of-pa.547663/

This got me trying to think of my Flex Division as an upgraded Infantry division, and kind of water down the ideas a bit to something more practically manageable.

Since our Flex Division is made of conscripts, on average with about 8 months of service (in a first in first out based system with voluntary extensions as outlined before), to match against professional forces (which seems @PanzerKiel 's primary concern), the idea would be to overmatch the brigades.

Where PA's Infantry brigade (as panerkiel noted) has 3000 infantry, the Flex conscripted brigade would have 3500.

ORBAT:
Flex Division
Infantry Brigade 1
Infantry Brigade 2
Infantry Brigade 3

Attached:
1 Artillery Brigade (3 regiments)
Half an MLRS regiment (Signalian's idea of putting MLRS in Infantry Divisions)
1 Armoured Regiment
1 Air defense regiment
1 LAT Regiment
1 Supply & Support Battalion
Half a HAT Regiment
1 Signals Battalion
1 Engineering Regiment
1 Military Police Unit
1 Field Intelligence Unit
1 Field Ambulance Unit
1 Aviation Regiment (with a few helicopters, armed drones, and CAS aircraft)
1 Recon Unit (as Signalian suggests, wheeled armoured and armed APCs)
1 Motorization regiment to project and maneuver forces better equiped with Ford F-150s / Toyota 70 series Land Cruisers

Under-ranking
In the conscript flex divisions (with only 20% technical and officer professional personnel), ranks will be one step below those of the professional army. So if PA is using a Major General to command an Infantry Division, in the Flex divisions, a Colonel would play the role. At the lowest ranks, more experienced conscripts / volunteers will be used to fill the leadership roles, thus maintaining the overall balance of the division.

Summary
Pakistan has two main weaknesses against India that we are attempting to address with new ideas.
1. Smaller army than IA
2. Geographically elongated structure makes defences vulnerable at the strategic level.

What I am suggesting is that using a military draft service and new concepts of combined arms warfare, Pakistan can overcome both these problems.

More so, this can be achieved with very little funding because the military draft does not pay proper salaries and does not have to pay the 101 other additional costs of an all professional force. It does not even need to pay pensions or take care of the children, etc, etc.

It also helps with nation building and giving youth who are unemployed with nothing to do, something that will help build qualities of discipline and structure, that will help them for the rest of their lives.

Additionally, while the professional army hires a lot of mediocre talent, by having conscription, the very best and the brightest can be offered professional positions, increasing the quality of the professional force in the long-term.

Copying @Signalian 's revamp of the Infantry Division, I'd have the following changes for the Flex Division:

A Infantry Brigade:: Infantry Battalion + Infantry Battalion + Mech Infantry Battalion
B Infantry Brigade:: Infantry Battalion + Infantry Battalion + Mech Infantry Battalion
C Infantry Brigade:: Infantry Battalion + Infantry Battalion + Infantry Battalion

Artillery Brigade: Artillery Regt + Artillery Regt + Artillery Regt + MLRS Battery

Which is essentially what Signalian was saying.

Almost completely feasible and logical, if the right equipment in the right quantity can be found (Economy).

2. Geographically elongated structure makes defences vulnerable at the strategic level.

Sorry dear, but i have a different opinion to this point.

 

[Armchair]

Almost completely feasible and logical, if the right equipment in the right quantity can be found (Economy).



Sorry dear, but i have a different opinion to this point.

Would love to hear your views. Did you see the brilliant thread of @Signalian ? I think it deserves at least 100 positive ratings!

 

[Armchair]

Almost completely feasible and logical, if the right equipment in the right quantity can be found (Economy).

Right equipment at right price (perhaps):

1. Old Chinese stock. Like Type 56 are low priced. Others: Type 81, CJ-6 (CAS / recon), assorted machine guns / small arms, mortars, MBRLs
2. Local Bayrakhtar TB-2 equivalent
3. Europe: retiring artillery (towed / SPH)
4. Helicopter: Retiring Gazelles / UH-1s / European
5. HAT - Type 59 with 125mm gun (not full Al Zarrar upgrade) and Bakhtar Shikan launcher on top.
6. SAM - indigenous development (currently one is in R&D for the navy, tell them to make a land version, and get some people to make sure they are working and not browsing FB)

 

[Armchair]

Not sure where to fit the regiment of tanks from. Perhaps the older stock tanks that PA professional uses can be handed down to the drafted "Flex Divisons"

 

[IblinI]

Guys, I was wondering why does the IA deployed almost three hundred thousand men within 300KM from the Sino-India border, by looking at the structrue and equipments, most of them looked like defensive stationary troops with lack of offensive capability, but why so many men and so closed to the border, please shed some light.

@PanzerKiel @Tipu7 @Signalian @Armchair

 

[Tipu7]

Guys, I was wondering why does the IA deployed almost three hundred thousand men within 300KM from the Sino-India border, by looking at the structrue and equipments, most of them looked like defensive stationary troops with lack of offensive capability, but why so many men and so closed to the border, please shed some light.

@PanzerKiel @Tipu7 @Signalian @Armchair

The mountaneous terrain support defensive operations particularly when enemy is larger and more capable. The window of successful offenses exists only when element of surprise is present. Once element of surprise is gone, the combat in mountains leads to attrition which cause major loss of life on both sides.

What China and India are doing is combat posturing. Both states know that they no longer posses the opportunity to undertake successful offense, thus India has switched to pre dominately defensive posture to deter further Chinese aggression and deliver the message that 'India may have lost some territory in opening intervals but now it's fully willing to fight for remaining territory'.

China on the other hand has successfully pushed India back in initial combat and is now sustaining an offensive posture in order to earn more leverage in negotiation.
Moreover, China has to develop its reputation also as a Dominant Military power in World. And one way to achieve is by coercing India by showcasing its offensive capabilities close to area of conflict.

 

[IblinI]

The mountaneous terrain support defensive operations particularly when enemy is larger and more capable. The window of successful offenses exists only when element of surprise is present. Once element of surprise is gone, the combat in mountains leads to attrition which cause major loss of life on both sides.

What China and India are doing is combat posturing. Both states know that they no longer posses the opportunity to undertake successful offense, thus India has switched to pre dominately defensive posture to deter further Chinese aggression and deliver the message that 'India may have lost some territory in opening intervals but now it's fully willing to fight for remaining territory'.

China on the other hand has successfully pushed India back in initial combat and is now sustaining an offensive posture in order to earn more leverage in negotiation.
Moreover, China has to develop its reputation also as a Dominant Military power in World. And one way to achieve is by coercing India by showcasing its offensive capabilities close to area of conflict.

Do they really need that much men power there while there are only twenty-forty thousand on our side, that'll be a big burden for its logistics, isn't it?
why don't they just mobilized when tension is getting high, the situation is different from the 38th parallel where both North and South Korea deployed hundred of thousand men alone the 38th and tension is always high but it is obviously not the case in Sino-India border.

 

[Armchair]

Do they really need that much men power there while there are only twenty-forty thousand on our side, that'll be a big burden for its logistics, isn't it?
why don't they just mobilized when tension is getting high, the situation is different from the 38th parallel where both North and South Korea deployed hundred of thousand men alone the 38th and tension is always high but it is obviously not the case in Sino-India border.

Hi IblinI,

India doesn't have that many men in Ladakh. 300,000 men cannot even be sustained operationally in Ladakh. It does have that many men in the theater (Jammu Kashmir region). For mountain warfare your structure doesn't need heavy armour component as much so a lot of such "Mountain units" are light on armour and other heavy equipment. This is with the exception of artillery which is a major force multiplier in the mountains.

Now, India has to cover both the Pakistani side and the Chinese side, meaning they have to face an enemy from virtually all sides and are also threatened from being trapped and cut off if a Chinese / Pakistani offensive cuts their "chicken's neck".

Additionally, a good number of their forces have to hold internal lines of communication and supply as there is a threat from the civilians in Kashmir who side with Pakistan and China. That is, about 20 - 30 % of their forces are to hold their internal lines alone.

Finally, there are a couple of openings from the south that need to be guarded. These openings are tankable and dangerous if the Pakistani side can ram through them. These require heavy fortification as well as armour to hold.

Hope that explains it. Right now their Siachen sector is vulnerable because of troop movement to Ladakh from Leh.

 

[Viper27]

The Ford F 150 is like a super powerful, large Toyota pickup. The Raptor is the off road version. Would be interesting for desert operations in Pakistan (?) Thar and Cholistan.

One could buy these first hand and second hand and uparmor with kevlar. There is also a military versioin.

I believe the Isuzu D max is the logical choice given Pakistan Army’s history of procuring from Isuzu.