A Vision of a New Combined Arms Philosophy & Doctrine

[padamchen]

That escalated quickly for sure.

We wuz ....

Pakistanis.

LOL.

My dear fellow, read what I wrote.



How would you serve in the Pakistan Army as a Bangladeshi? Will your conscript force include the Pakistan Foreign Legion?

This ....

 

[Joe Shearer]

You feel that your standards differ but reality is, if your family members were being lynched, raped, pillaged, burnt, hanged, your standards would magically change. Our Muslim brothers and sisters are facing this from India in Kashmir and now all over northern India.

The day you can watch your sister and mother being raped and have a stiff upper lipped conversation over tea, do let me know. Muslims are one family and our hearts bleed wherever our people suffer such horrendous and state sponsored atrocities.

Please can we have done with the drama? Your affiliations are showing rather clearly. It was Bengali families being ill-treated; quite clearly, you have no feeling for them or for those events.

I really have nothing to say to such a fanfarronade.

View attachment 624998

@PanzerKiel this is where everyone thinks PA and IA will duke it out with maneuver warfare and tank battles galore.

That escalated quickly for sure.

We wuz ....

Pakistanis.





This ....

LOL.

Just one more false-flagger.

 

[padamchen]

Please can we have done with the drama? Your affiliations are showing rather clearly. It was Bengali families being ill-treated; quite clearly, you have no feeling for them or for those events.

I really have nothing to say to such a fanfarronade.





LOL.

Just one more false-flagger.

Speak to him in Bengali.

There is a code of honour among professionals about uniforms and flags.

 

[Cuirassier]

I can save you some money (naturally, expenses for this advisory trip would be borne by your organisation); there is no need to talk to the US Army about the Stryker or the Russians either. Neither of these organisations will be called upon to shoot 'sitting ducks', or to use your 'good pots to cook Indians in'. The Pakistan Army will. That Army may plan lots of things, and you have projected a superiority in numbers, not of the conventional 3 to 1 superiority but rather less; on the other hand, you already have a reference to the Battle of Basantar, called the Battle of Barapind by some. Do take a look at it before you start cooking Indians, and before your patriotic enthusiasm misguides you into using this kind of deplorable language about soldiers who die for their country while armchair generals pontificate.

In that battle, 3 Indian divisions and 2 independent armoured brigades forestalled an attack by 4 (3 infantry and 1 armoured) PA divisions and an armoured brigade, cleared a series of minefields (not water obstacles, so the substitution may be forgiven) and paved the way for a handful of brave tank men to make a stand and stop the planned attack in its tracks. 2 Param Vir Chakras, 5 Maha Vir Chakras and 3 Vir Chakras were awarded; the Sappers got battlefield honours and theatre honours. That was not all; a Pakistani Colonel was awarded the Hilal-i-Jurat on the citation written by an Indian officer. This is not uncommon; at one time I had counted ten such cases; sadly, since Indians had nothing better to do in war-time than be cooked in their pots, there is no instance that I know of when this was reciprocated.

Moral of the story?

Please don't count on the Indians sitting in their bunkers marinating slowly while your conscript gangs lick their chops. They might climb out of their bunkers and give you a surprise. Please don't conjure the IAF into doing a vanishing trick; they do exist, with or without an ISPR to give them some credibility. Please don't discount Indian military leadership; at Basantar, I Corps was led by one of the most incompetent Indian generals, but the Indians still got their objectives.

Your language and manners needs introspection.

The Indian advance in the Shakargarh Bulge (w/ 3 x Infantry Divisions and 2 x Armoured Brigades) faced only the 8 Infantry Division. It had :

24 Inf Bde - Zafarwal
14 Para Bde - Shakargarh
115 Inf Bde - Narowal
124 Inf Bde (from 14 Dec onwards)
Changez Force (2 x Armour Regt + Inf Bn)
8 (I) Armoured Bde (CA reserve)

Pak 6 Armd Div, 17 Inf Div were kept as ARN - unused.

Pak 15 Inf Div faced IA 26 Inf Div & ad-hoc X-ray sector (2 brigades), west of Degh Nadi.

 

[padamchen]

He isn't Bengali. Somebody put up a piece of gibberish, and he swallowed it hook, line and sinker.



And he's not a professional. Just another fanboy.

I'm talking about the professionals here who have been indulging him with their time and inputs.

 

[Joe Shearer]

I'm talking about the professionals here who have been indulging him with their time and inputs.

To each his own. The person concerned is of sufficient stature to take all his own decisions. Doesn't need me.

The Indian advance in the Shakargarh Bulge (w/ 3 x Infantry Divisions and 2 x Armoured Brigades) faced only the 8 Infantry Division. It had :

24 Inf Bde - Zafarwal
14 Para Bde - Shakargarh
115 Inf Bde - Narowal
124 Inf Bde (from 14 Dec onwards)
Changez Force (2 x Armour Regt + Inf Bn)
8 (I) Armoured Bde (CA reserve)

Pak 6 Armd Div, 17 Inf Div were kept as ARN - unused.

Pak 15 Inf Div faced IA 26 Inf Div & ad-hoc X-ray sector (2 brigades), west of Degh Nadi.

Please be sure that your inputs are neither being ignored nor underplayed. I would like to combine your information with what else I've got, and try to form a composite picture.

 

[PanzerKiel]

indra canal


View attachment 624986 View attachment 624986 View attachment 624987 View attachment 624988 are these the bunkers?

Nopes

As it happens, it lies some distance from the border, and I never thought of it as a defence against attack. I am not sure what @PanzerKiel was referring to, in #320. In 71, there was nothing between Longewala and Jaisalmer.

Things have changed alot since then. You may like to analyze it from defence point of view, then you'll know the military logic behind preparing Indira Canal in an area where no water obstacles otherwise exist.

I just showed you a part of DCB in empty desert, referring to your point that such defences are not there in the desert. Rather, looking closely, you'll find that desert is full of nasty defences. Seeing is believing.

the pics i posted r defensive forts on indian side

Not forts in the true military sense. Forts are something else.

Just to show the overall picture. The Pakistani lines are much deeper but I think (and am suprised) a part of the Pakistani line seems to have changed (??) New canals I'm assuming.

Lots of changes.

Those are not bunkers, those are walled compounds, totally indefensible against any substantial attack. Actually, only the last is of a walled compound, and it does not look as if it could hold out against an infantry company. I suspect @PanzerKiel had something more substantial in mind.

Exactly. I have alot in mind, lets see whether the situation here allows me to unfold.

@Joe Shearer don't take the cooking pot comment to heart, for us its an enemy engaged in genocide and ethnic cleansing against Muslims. This is how we talk about such an enemy. You're always welcome to have a cup of tea as a noncombatant.

Joe did you really not know about the water obstacle and bunkers? I'm surprised.

If you zoom to the line I've shown you'll see them. @Joe Shearer

Thank God you have started zooming.

View attachment 624998

@PanzerKiel this is where everyone thinks PA and IA will duke it out with maneuver warfare and tank battles galore.

A little here, max towards south of it till Munabao.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Nopes



Things have changed alot since then. You may like to analyze it from defence point of view, then you'll know the military logic behind preparing Indira Canal in an area where no water obstacles otherwise exist.

I just showed you a part of DCB in empty desert, referring to your point that such defences are not there in the desert. Rather, looking closely, you'll find that desert is full of nasty defences. Seeing is believing.



Not forts in the true military sense. Forts are something else.



Lots of changes.

Exactly. I have a lot in mind, lets see whether the situation here allows me to unfold.

Thank God you have started zooming.

Now you are giving me the heeby-jeebies. I am looking forward to your next posts, half-hopefully, half-fearfully.

 

[Blacklight]

@Blacklight If you had not been so rude and uncivil, I would gladly have complimented @Armchair with a positive rating as you wished. As it is, you have to apply to somebody who also appreciates remarks about 'gangus' and the baggage of adjectives that go with it. Good luck.

@Armchair and I are perfectly alright without an online rating by you. No favors needed.

As to the "gangus" or "pajeets," unfortunately for you, "you as a nation" have proven every critic right. Best of Luck in trying to get rid of that stigma.

 

[Joe Shearer]

@Armchair and I are perfectly alright without an online rating by you. No favors needed.

As to the "gangus" or "pajeets," unfortunately for you, you as a nation have proven every critic right. Best of Luck in trying to get rid of that stigma.

And none being given, so you are being bold and upstanding after the event.

Every critic being the likes of you, presumably? Good luck on continuing to think that anyone is bothered.

 

[Blacklight]

And none being given, so you are being bold and upstanding after the event.

Every critic being the likes of you, presumably? Good luck on continuing to think that anyone is bothered.

Had you not been bothered, and needed to reassure yourself, you wouldn't have bothered addressing me. Just do a poll on this very forum, and see what people think of your "mahan" homeland

Ducking your head in the sand, is not going to change ground realities, but you keep up the rhetoric.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Had you not been bothered, and needed to reassure yourself, you wouldn't have bothered addressing me. Just do a poll on this very forum, and see what people think of your "mahan" homeland

A PDF poll will affect anything? Are you serious? Just do a world-wide poll, and see who thinks what of the countries involved.

Ducking your head in the sand, is not going to change ground realities, but you keep up the rhetoric.

No need for me to keep up the rhetoric. It's clear for everyone to see who's jumping into the gutter and refuses to come out.

Happy swimming.

 

[Armchair]

Zoomed image for you @PanzerKiel : )

 

[Blacklight]

A PDF poll will affect anything? Are you serious? Just do a world-wide poll, and see who thinks what of the countries involved.

Yes it will, it will show you that despite your instance on regurgitating your rhetoric, which no one buys except your ilk, that no one cares on this particular platform. Since this is exactly where you are trying perch yourself on a mantle.

As to a world wide poll, I have been lucky enough to travel to nearly every corner of the globe, and no one except your ilk talks about you in favorable terms, and modi/rss have done exponential wonders for your image!

 

[Gryphon]

Zoomed image for you @PanzerKiel : )View attachment 625047

You don't need to go 50km from IB, the first layer of DCBs is approx at 3km.