A view from Pakistan: ISIS and the U.S. look the same to me

[Jaanbaz]

Sooo if they have the right as a state they have the right to kill? What sort of mentality is that?

That's the American mentality. USA daddy is right the rest is wrong. Rag head are all terrorists and must be bombed. True story.

 

[Dubious]

Of course the technology of war has changed since those times, but the rationales and deaths are exactly the same.

I am talking about the habit of creating chaos to promote their weapons and also as a capitalist it is the aim to sell or raise the demand for it....while you are way off tangent and equating that with self defence....

 

[VCheng]

I am talking about the habit of creating chaos to promote their weapons and also as a capitalist it is the aim to sell or raise the demand for it....while you are way off tangent and equating that with self defence....

I am correctly on topic: War has been a part human society and will remain so. Wars happen due to many reasons and cause chaos and destruction in many ways. But out of such destruction comes new creations and order.

 

[Dubious]

I am correctly on topic: War has been a part human society and will remain so. Wars happen due to many reasons and cause chaos and destruction in many ways. But out of such destruction comes new creations and order.

lolz THAT isnt even what I am pointing at

I am pointing at a weapons factory which is promoting its goods by exhibiting them at the cost of human life...

 

[HariPrasad]

By Faqir Hamim Masoom

Best Defense guest columnist

The U.S. military response to the ISIS (the Islamic State of Iraq and al-Sham) threat may have just as much to do with sanctity and God as the terror group's aim of Muslim revivalism through establishing a global caliphate.

From where I sit, in Pakistan, ISIS's staunch anti-Western and sectarian ideology can be seen as a direct response to America's long-standing religious wars in the region. Convoys of white pick-up trucks, masked gunmen and knife-wielding born-againMuslims have all become synonymous with the glaring black-and-white flag. ISIS's marauding conquest has left behind a trail of murder, massacre, and ethnic cleansing. All seem to be compatible with the group's extremist interpretation of Islamic principles.

Though ISIS's views are shared by only a few beleaguered zealots, all Muslims agree with the Arabic scripture on the ISIS's flag -- it is simply the first part of a ubiquitous statement of Shahada (or faith) that we all revere. But note that the flag contextualizes the group's claim that it exists as a direct manifestation of "Allah's will." In other words, if you disagree with them, you are contesting not just them but Allah.

And what about the Americans? President Obama has launched a military response to a political problem. And he has characterized that impetuous response an "enduring burden" that results from "endless blessings" bestowed upon America. In doing so, he has highlighted the role of religious discourse in the continuation of American foreign policy's hegemonic posture.

Moral behavior is still highly associated with religious belief and participation among the U.S. population. Over 90 percent of Americans profess their belief in God. Thus, actions to liberate or protect foreign populations from despotic forces tend to be framed in terms of religion. Theocentric arguments make American foreign policy more palatable to the people. And so in every war the people are lead into, God seems to be on America's side.

But remember that ISIS holds very similar religious convictions. This makes compromise impossible, and a prolonged fight inevitable. In seeking to validate U.S. action against ISIS, Obama stated, "America is better positioned today to seize the future than any other nation on earth." Such claims of divine righteousness lead to a need to enhance military capacity as the keystone of American foreign policy. Exceptionalism clears out everything in its path. Plausible alternatives, strategic wisdom and simply careful judgment are all clouded by the divine right of the collective American endeavor, favored by God and so confident of its exceptional role in the world.

Seen this way, the shared value of "liberty for all" becomes the power base for U.S. foreign policy. And in just the same way, the highly conservative societies of the Middle East perceive Western liberal values as an insulting infringement on their cultural and religious identity. ISIS's volatile nature, amassing transnational allegiance, can be seen as a direct response to the external threat of exported liberty. Both sides are attempting to draw a line between "us and them," between internal righteousness and extreme external immorality.

High levels of religiosity have constructed America's destiny, obligating it to play a distinct role in the global arena. America's repeated engagements in Iraq and more recently Syria have favored and bolstered one sectarian faction over the other. The United States has done this in a region where sectarian fault lines long have threatened societal stability. Influenced by what it sees as moral obligations to intervene, America has waged religious wars in the Middle East that further aggravated sectarian divides. This in turn motivated armed militant groups to lead a campaign of cleansing of faith. For example, ISIS has constructed a dual religious extremist agenda: denouncing Western influence in the region and enhancing its sectarian supremacy through ethnic cleansing.

America's self-perception of mission and ISIS's extremist principles are both about preserving their respective identities. Religious connotations assist in legitimizing a cause and course of action. Resorting to the same brand of chest thumping, both sides are ready to die for what they believe to be an incontrovertible divine right.

Faqir Hamim Masoom recently completed his master's degree in international relations at the National Defence University (NDU) in Islamabad, Pakistan.

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A view from Pakistan: ISIS and the U.S. look the same to me, both thinking they enjoy a form of divine exceptionalism
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Still People from Pakistan stand in long queue for US Visa.

 

[VCheng]

lolz THAT isnt even what I am pointing at

I am pointing at a weapons factory which is promoting its goods by exhibiting them at the cost of human life...

Are you referring to the world famous swords made from Damascus Steel and used to kill enemies by the thousands? It made the makers very rich, these swords.

Still People from Pakistan stand in long queue for US Visa.

What we say and what we do are two different things.

 

[Dubious]

Are you referring to the world famous swords made from Damascus Steel and used to kill enemies by the thousands? It made the makers very rich, these swords.

No I am talking about endless money being spent on "improving" warfare instead of feeding the needy!

As for Damascus and all the Ummayad , Abassid Caliphs, Fatmids, Ottomon...they came AFTER Prophet (almost none had even known the Prophet) Hence again your original "Prophet did the same" notion has been proven wrong...

 

[Donatello]

Still People from Pakistan stand in long queue for US Visa.

Just like the thousands of Indians.

 

[VCheng]

No I am talking about endless money being spent on "improving" warfare instead of feeding the needy!

As for Damascus and all the Ummayad , Abassid Caliphs, Fatmids, Ottomon...they came AFTER Prophet (almost none had even known the Prophet) Hence again your original "Prophet did the same" notion has been proven wrong...

First of all, why should anyone need to worry about how others spend their own money? Second of all, the fact remains that the Prophet PBUH did use war as a tool for his policies, and therefore he did exactly the same thing: conduct wars:

List of expeditions of Muhammad - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Kloitra]

Just like the thousands of Indians.

Indians don't denounce the US/west same as Pakistan. We certainly don't label them same as ISIS.

 

[Dubious]

First of all, why should anyone need to worry about how others spend their own money?

Just like you cry tears when minorities are executed...Majorities of the world who "dont have money" to spend on arms are getting killed thanks to the "minority" who are buying these weapons thanks to shoving of the extreme "minorities" who are benefiting $$

Second of all, the fact remains that the Prophet PBUH did use war as a tool for his policies, and therefore he did exactly the same thing: conduct wars:

List of expeditions of Muhammad - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Firstly, it is a fool who calls "his say" as facts and gives Wiki as an example ...

And then---Wikipedia? Really? And I thought you were a learned person

May I suggest you actually do some reading on the topic instead of embarassing yourself...You may have a degree or 2 hold to your name but you are an illetrate when it comes to Islamic basics and this post among many proves it

 

[VCheng]

Just like you cry tears when minorities are executed...Majorities of the world who "dont have money" to spend on arms are getting killed thanks to the "minority" who are buying these weapons thanks to shoving of the extreme "minorities" who are benefiting $$



Firstly, it is a fool who calls "his say" as facts and gives Wiki as an example ...

And then---Wikipedia? Really? And I thought you were a learned person

May I suggest you actually do some reading on the topic instead of embarassing yourself...You may have a degree or 2 hold to your name but you are an illetrate when it comes to Islamic basics and this post among many proves it

Well, that list from Wikipedia is pretty accurate for purposes of the topic here, and it has a pretty good list of references too if you want to read further.

And our wise and beloved Prophet PBUH made sure to get the best possible weapons available at the time, from whatever resources available at that time. We know that to be prepared for war is one of the traits of a momin.

People in today's world follow these principles still, to the best of their respective abilities, just like back in those times. Some people don't follow them and pay the price for violating this guidance provided by the Prophet PBUH.

 

[Dubious]

And our wise and beloved Prophet PBUH made sure to get the best possible weapons available at the time, from whatever resources available at that time. We know that to be prepared for war is one of the traits of a momin.

Yea digging a trench, bow and arrows and using swords ...and not to forget getting looted, abused (thrown rocks at) and of course lets not forget how they lost and what not..oops sorry did I say the full story from half of the one you were planning to tell and keep people in the dark?

People in today's world follow these principles still, to the best of their respective abilities, just like back in those times. Some people don't follow them and pay the price for violating this guidance provided by the Prophet PBUH.

Saracsm is sweet but lying is really like being bitchy...

Preparing for war is fine...But creating war situations like funding saddam to go against Iran then saying we need to liberate Iraqis from Saddam...Funding Ghaddaffi then saying the same, Funding Assad and barking the same, Funding the Mujhaidins against USSR then still barking the same....

I havent even started with rest of Africa....

Try reading the story as a whole instead of acting like the habitual biased bitchy aunty

I think this suits you:

It seems that you seem to have neither about Islam.....at least according to the above definitions...

 

[VCheng]

Yea digging a trench, bow and arrows and using swords ...and not to forget getting looted, abused (thrown rocks at) and of course lets not forget how they lost and what not..oops sorry did I say the full story from half of the one you were planning to tell and keep people in the dark?



Saracsm is sweet but lying is really like being bitchy...

Preparing for war is fine...But creating war situations like funding saddam to go against Iran then saying we need to liberate Iraqis from Saddam...Funding Ghaddaffi then saying the same, Funding Assad and barking the same, Funding the Mujhaidins against USSR then still barking the same....

I havent even started with rest of Africa....

Try reading the story as a whole instead of acting like the habitual biased bitchy aunty

I think this suits you:

It seems that you seem to have neither about Islam.....at least according to the above definitions...

Your tirade aside, it remains clear that the basic principles of war have remained the same from those times to today. Only the technology evolves.

To remain on topic, what ISIS, and USA, and Pakistan, and just about every other entity engaged in warfare today, tries to follow these principles of war as best as they can given their own resources and expertise, just like Muhammad PBUH did during his times. Even the, just as now, you win some, you lose some, and some you draw.

I am sure you will agree with that easily.

 

[Dubious]

Your tirade aside,

Naah just showing you the mirror....

it remains clear that the basic principles of war have remained the same from those times to today. Only the technology evolves.

You didnt prove anything and hence cant conclude such....nor can you equate as I already showed that there is nothing equating worth...1 being self defence...other being the sole result of capitalism!

To remain on topic, what ISIS, and USA, and Pakistan, and just about every other entity engaged in warfare today, tries to follow these principles of war as best as they can given their own resources and expertise, just like Muhammad PBUH did during his times. Even the, just as now, you win some, you lose some, and some you draw.

What on earth? I knew you were a certain type but I didnt know you would fall that low!

Prophet fought as self defence while todays wars are created over time and then re-initiated...nothing the same...

Prophet never planted such crap!

I am sure you will agree with that easily.

I am not sure how you can even equate such crap?!