A US-Vietnam Alliance? Not So Fast

[Viet]

eeekkks, Israel of Asia? Don't know with Viets nibiru maps or they deluded themselves living in Planet Namec or Mars, my maps still pointed Israel located firmly in Asia landmass, and yet Vietnam dubbed themselves as Israel of Asia. how can we have another Israel in Asia

Even the Singaporean themselves doesn't like anyone to comparing their country with Israel

It's the first time I hear such a comparison. actually the chinese were dudded as the jews of asia.

 

[ANMDT]

well, it will be nice to see an alliance between Vietnam and the U.S. However i dont think/see that happening anytime soon. The main reason for this is that Vietnam is still very suspicious of U.S intentions(which i understand), since Vietnam is still a communist authoritarian country like its bigger Neighbour to the north unlike U.S democratic allies like philippines, in fact Vietnam is more similar/closer to China in its politcal system/policies/governance than any other country in the region/Asia. the VCP has been learning alot from its communist counterpart in China economic wise and adapting it to vietnam owns local realities/environment and there are also lots Politicans in VCP who are pro china and understand that they can't cut themselves off from a big country and neighbour like China despite the public resentment towards China. So this complicates matters
Secondly, Vietnam has very close relations with its former(and to a lesser extent current) patron Russia, who the U.S still consider a rival/threat. so in this situation it makes things complicated to pull vietnam closer to the U.S , as vietnam still finds it difficult to detach itself from its former romance with Russia/U.S.S.R.
However, things might change in a decade or two from now, when China becomes so powerful/dominant/undisputed leader in Asia, so much that Vietnam will find it even more difficult to remain non align/not to ally itself with a big power like the U.S to at least counter balance China and forget Russia who has way more interests/similar world view with China than small Vietnam, so Russia will not sacrificed those to support Vietnam in any conflict with China.
I wish all the best to Vietnam, considering all what the country went through from the war of independence from China to those against France to the Vietnam war to the subsequent U.S/western sanctions etc. Hopefully Vietnams government will focus more on reform/economy than war/conflicts or focusing too much on defence military/buying fighter jets worth billions(and in the process enriching even more countries like Russia, european countries etc) which otherwise could have gone to other more promising sectors in ITS economy like infrastructure,education,science,technology etc. Hopefully these disputes can be solve peacefully so poor countries like Vietnam or Philippines can focus more on improving their economy instead of spending unncessarily buying military hardwares from rich/developed countries. Wishing vietnam the best.

in Falklands war, France provided all information about equipments in argentina army to UK, so UK could produce counter products and EW systems , resulted in missiles to not trigger,to not hit, to not explode even fired.
What is the relation of this to VN ? , in any case of tension between CH and VN ,all your inventory will be known by CH also a good ALLY of RU , and VN will be just a bat in sea or in air ( i dont mention about any land invasion ) . Thats what i point out with "old minded guys in Socialist party of Vietnam" , they are welll russian backed, so always going on to be "israel-kind" ally of RU ( as if israel's alliance with US in their region ). VN becomes a RU forward base in east sea to dominate laos, cambodia and have a piece from cake in east sea .

It's the first time I hear such a comparison. actually the chinese were dudded as the jews of asia.

Believe me Chinese is much better than israel , how pity israel turned into be a reference country to show how much a country could gone to be " bad bad kitty "

 

[mike2000]

Mike, I like your analysis. Though in one point I disagree: allying with a great military power. Not in one decade or two, no, we need a decision soon where we go and with whom.

Yes sure Viet(sorry whats your real name bro?). But which great military power do you think Vietnam should ally with? there's is only one option as i said before and that's the U.S. So its up to vietnam to decide and ditch its delusional romance with Russia. The only other option for Vietnam is to seek to negotiate with China directly and be ready to make compromises. those are the only options i see.
Overall a peaceful resolution/negotiation to this will be the best option, as it will help poor countries with limited resources like Vietnam save money whcih is being wasted unnecessarily on buying militarily hardwares overseas while the country greatly needs these funds.
However, im also a realist, i know reality is different, so im sure this conflict/disputes will continue unfortunately.

 

[mike2000]

There are limitations and areas of want in Vietnam. Given. But let us be objective and note that they have been placed in a position to defend their own interests.

Very similar to how China was at war with Japanese Empire, then with the Chinese Civil War. Viet nam is not so blessed with man power and natural resources or land mass as China. Whereas China was able to cope with post-war development.

For Viet Nam, they had suffered greatly:

a) Japanese invasion & occupation of French Indochina
b) French-Vietnamese war of independence
c) Vietnam War
d) Sino- Vietnam War
e) Khmer-Vietnam War

----

Vietnam started late. And i believe that they are now on the right track.

well said nihonji. Vietnam has suffered alot in the past during its war with foreign powers/successive invasions. Vietnam being a small country as you said has less landmass, resources, manpower, basic industries to developed/recover from all those wars unlike China who has all the above, Also China is a civilization state and is huge unlike Vietnam, so it already had the base for a development path, in fact if not for the country closing its doors to the outside world and subsequent communist takeover untill the late 70s then China will be way way more developed than it is today.
So we shouldnt be too hard on Vietnam, since it suffered alot from all the past wars and made the wrong decision of allying with the wrong country during the cold war(U.S.S.R). In fact Vietnamese should blame China to some extent for their current state/government/regime, since if not for china turning communist after the second world war and all the logistics, training,financing, troops which China provided helped vietnam in its defeat of the U.S during the Vietnam war, then Vietnam would have never been communist today. It was because of China that communsim was able to spread to indo china(cambodia,laos,vietnam, north korea etc). Had the Nationalists KMT won the war then there would have been no commusim in vietnam today and Vietnam would have been a democracy. unfortunately it wasnt to be. Otherwise Asia would have been more peaceful i beleive had the government in Beijing been Nationlist KMT.

 

[Jlaw]

well said nihonji. Vietnam has suffered alot in the past during its war with foreign powers/successive invasions. Vietnam being a small country as you said has less landmass, resources, manpower, basic industries to developed/recover from all those wars unlike China who has all the above, Also China is a civilization state and is huge unlike Vietnam, so it already had the base for a development path, in fact if not for the country closing its doors to the outside world and subsequent communist takeover untill the late 70s then China will be way way more developed than it is today.
So we shouldnt be too hard on Vietnam, since it suffered alot from all the past wars and made the wrong decision of allying with the wrong country during the cold war(U.S.S.R). In fact Vietnamese should blame China to some extent for their current state/government/regime, since if not for china turning communist after the second world war and all the logistics, training,financing, troops which China provided helped vietnam in its defeat of the U.S during the Vietnam war, then Vietnam would have never been communist today. It was because of China that communsim was able to spread to indo china(cambodia,laos,vietnam, north korea etc). Had the Nationalists KMT won the war then there would have been no commusim in vietnam today and Vietnam would have been a democracy. unfortunately it wasnt to be. Otherwise Asia would have been more peaceful i beleive had the government in Beijing been Nationlist KMT.

China becoming communist is China's issue. Vietnam becoming communist is their problem. Vietnam has and always will be a follower of big powers. They will imitate big powers but can never emulate.
It's just reality that Vietnamese need to accept.

 

[Aepsilons]

China becoming communist is China's issue. Vietnam becoming communist is their problem. Vietnam has and always will be a follower of big powers. They will imitate big powers but can never emulate.
It's just reality that Vietnamese need to accept.

越南纳入哲学和学说。这是错的？文明相互影响.

All civilizations influence each other, there is no such thing as a 'hermit kingdom.

There are no such things as isolated civilizations. In fact, civilizations that truly adopt isolationist policies suffer politico-military backward-ism. Case in point the Ming Dynasty's decision to Close its doors to the world. Had the Ming Dynasty not done that, there are even theories that China would have surpassed the Europeans in terms of global hegemony.

 

[Jlaw]

越南纳入哲学和学说。这是错的？文明相互影响.

All civilizations influence each other, there is no such thing as a 'hermit kingdom.

There are no such things as isolated civilizations. In fact, civilizations that truly adopt isolationist policies suffer politico-military backward-ism. Case in point the Ming Dynasty's decision to Close its doors to the world. Had the Ming Dynasty not done that, there are even theories that China would have surpassed the Europeans in terms of global hegemony.

The Ming dynasty did fine. I don't debate should have could have,etc. Vietnamese like to blame China for their failing state but never look at themselves in the mirror. When China sided with US in 70s, vietnam chose Russia. Now China favour Russia, Viet are begging for US help, but still trying to cling on to Russia. These viets has to realize the world know their two faced game. Neither Russia or US is falling for it. I definitely know Japan is just using those fools against China but those fools don't get it and are rather happy about it.
Pawn being played by the major powers.

 

[iajj]

China becoming communist is China's issue. Vietnam becoming communist is their problem. Vietnam has and always will be a follower of big powers. They will imitate big powers but can never emulate.
It's just reality that Vietnamese need to accept.

indeed, when all the soviet satellites collapsed, the survival of the political class in Hanoi (and laos and north korea) can only be attributed to one factor and one factor only: the survival of CCP. the lesser communist parties in east asia didn't collapse because, as the saying goes, it is easy to find a cool spot under a big tree. the events of 1989 alone demonstrated the extent of china's sphere of influence even in its more precarious moments. I just don't comprehend wherefrom came the annamese monkeys' confidence in defying us and stealing our maritime territory now! aren't those monkeys dumb!

 

[tore]

I dont understand two Asian countries, Japan & Vietnam, both slaughtered on worst possible way by the americcan army. Japan nukes twice , vietnamese slaughtered by US soliders. I dont undetstand why these two nations seeks alliance with USA.

 

[dichoi]

New politic game is beginning.

Vietnam belong to Vietnamese people, not depend only on VCP. It is good step for us when US will lift embargo on lethal weapon in near future. We can strengthen our relation with US from economy, military relation to politic relation.

Problem for us in this moment is to study how we can integrate US technology weapon into Russia technology technology, or it will be operate independently.

I dont understand two Asian countries, Japan & Vietnam, both slaughtered on worst possible way by the americcan army. Japan nukes twice , vietnamese slaughtered by US soliders. I dont undetstand why these two nations seeks alliance with USA.

Are you Chinese ?

What do think about France and German, both were slaughtered each on other in WW I and WW II ? today German and France is member of NATO.

 

[dichoi]

China becoming communist is China's issue. Vietnam becoming communist is their problem. Vietnam has and always will be a follower of big powers. They will imitate big powers but can never emulate.
It's just reality that Vietnamese need to accept.

Communists China imitated what Stalin did. Copy from China dictatorship and corruption is no good.

 

[tore]

New politic game is beginning.

Vietnam belong to Vietnamese people, not depend only on VCP. It is good step for us when US will lift embargo on lethal weapon in near future. We can strengthen our relation with US from economy, military relation to politic relation.

Problem for us in this moment is to study how we can integrate US technology weapon into Russia technology technology, or it will be operate independently.



Are you Chinese ?

What do think about France and German, both were slaughtered each on other in WW I and WW II ? today German and France is member of NATO.

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ok, i see so everything what happend is forgotten.....

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

I dont understand two Asian countries, Japan & Vietnam, both slaughtered on worst possible way by the americcan army. Japan nukes twice , vietnamese slaughtered by US soliders. I dont undetstand why these two nations seeks alliance with USA.

Those self-righteous Asian nations never truly learned the history.

Only China has devoid any strategic myopia because we are the original founder of the East Asian civilization and the home country of Sun Tzu.

 

[NiceGuy]

in Falklands war, France provided all information about equipments in argentina army to UK, so UK could produce counter products and EW systems , resulted in missiles to not trigger,to not hit, to not explode even fired.
What is the relation of this to VN ? , in any case of tension between CH and VN ,all your inventory will be known by CH also a good ALLY of RU , and VN will be just a bat in sea or in air ( i dont mention about any land invasion ) . Thats what i point out with "old minded guys in Socialist party of Vietnam" , they are welll russian backed, so always going on to be "israel-kind" ally of RU ( as if israel's alliance with US in their region ). VN becomes a RU forward base in east sea to dominate laos, cambodia and have a piece from cake in east sea .


Believe me Chinese is much better than israel , how pity israel turned into be a reference country to show how much a country could gone to be " bad bad kitty "

When we buy weapon from someone, they must promise to VN that there is No kill switch chips inside. As u can see, in 1979 was between Vn-China, we used lots of China's weapons and still killed PLA troops well.

 

[Jlaw]

Communists China imitated what Stalin did. Copy from China dictatorship and corruption is no good.

And Vietnam copied China