A Super Power without Allies ?

[Cthulhu]

The one and only reason that led to the collapse of USSR was Commies confusing "Equality" with "Justice", Nothing more, Nothing less.

 

[El Sidd]

Divided states of embarrasment

 

[antonius123]

China is no superwoper...
Globaly it has no military strenght to act like a superpower... like the USA today or USA and USSR in the past
China is only a economy superpower and only a regional military power...

China cant even stop the US NAVY to sail through international water that China claims their own at their front door... something the USA would have never tryed during the cold war with USSR and the USSR not with USA

Provide solid definition of "Super Power" first, before you claim this or that is superpower or not superpower.
Being a superpower in economy and technology with strong military power will be enough to be considered a superpower.

And why China has to stop US Navy in international water? can US destroy china's artificial island in LCS?

 

[antonius123]

I actually mostly agree with Dejan here.

China has nowhere near the global ideological influence, military power projection, or technological disruption capability the Soviets possessed at the height of its power. The Soviets were a true competitor to the United States.

What technological disruption has China achieved on the scale of putting the first satellite and man into space? I rest my case. China is simply a regional power at this point.

China is disruptive in technology. US now has a strong challenger in AI, Supercomputer, nuclear, biotechnology, electric car, etc. China is ahead in 5G telco, Exascale supercomputer, high speed train, hypersonic, quantum computer, beating America.

In fact USSR put first satellite was not disruptive at all, it was just monumental and overhyped by media due to epic between USA vs USSR at that time, and brought a little or no impact on USSR industry and economy. None of technology that USSR had could challenged USA except in aerospace, unlike China now.

And when did USSR has military power projection competing with US? USSR had only 2 carriers, far from competing US in military projection.

 

[KAL-EL]

USA is not a superpower. It's extremely primitive now. Especially in military tech

 

[antonius123]

There is only be one super power in the world and there will be only one super power in the world. That is America.

If US is the only superpower, US should win easily in trade war with China, and should have already destroyed Chinese artificial island in LCS.

 

[antonius123]

It is disgrace for USSR to be compared to China.

First was world superpower, second is cheap workshop.

USSR on its peak was 60 % of USA GDP. Modern China is about 62-63%, so dont lie Beast,

Now I can see why you are banned

You have no basic knowledge to participate in descent debate, except misled perception.

 

[F-22Raptor]

China is disruptive in technology. US now has a strong challenger in AI, Supercomputer, nuclear, biotechnology, electric car, etc. China is ahead in 5G telco, Exascale supercomputer, high speed train, hypersonic, quantum computer, beating America.

In fact USSR put first satellite was not disruptive at all, it was just a monumental and hyped by media due to epic between USA vs USSR at that time, and brought a little impact on USSR industry and economy.

And when did USSR has military power projection competing with US? USSR had only 2 carriers, far from competing US in military projection.

5g: Verizon, AT&T, Sprint, and T-Mobile are all expected to roll out 5G services over the next 6-12 months.

The US currently has the fastest supercomputer in the world, with 3-4 exascale class supercomputers under contract to deliver over 2021-2023.

Hypersonics? No...has China successfully tested a 4,000km hypersonic glide vehicle? That's double the range of any Chinese test.

Google, IBM, Microsoft, Rigetti Computing are all at the forefront of quantum computing and are world leading.


China is a competitor sure.....but disruptive? For all the money China has spent.....China still can't invent or develop a product that's truly revolutionary.

The practical lightbulb, the airplane, the Internet, the semiconductor, the personal computer, the iPhone, social media...to name a few. These were all revolutionary. What has China given the world over the last century?

 

[antonius123]

5g: Verizon, AT&T, Sprint, and T-Mobile are all expected to roll out 5G services over the next 6-12 months.

The US currently has the fastest supercomputer in the world, with 3-4 exascale class supercomputers under contract to deliver over 2021-2023.

Hypersonics? No...has China successfully tested a 4,000km hypersonic glide vehicle? That's double the range of any Chinese test.

Google, IBM, Microsoft, Rigetti Computing are all at the forefront of quantum computing and are world leading.

Now let's check the reality

China ahead of US in 5G race, Deloitte says
https://www.rcrwireless.com/20180809/5g/china-ahead-of-us-in-5g-race-deloitte-says
It is clear from the title: China beat US

China launches exascale supercomputer prototype
https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/world/china-launches-exascale-supercomputer-prototype-2807341.html
US not yet launched, mean China is ahead

Hypersonic? it maybe the field comparable to USSR's Sputnic where US and China (or USSR at that time) is head to head in technology but China (or USSR) show off first

How about rail gun? China has showed it railgun on her ship, and it could be disruptive in the future naval war.

China ahead US in quantum race:
China Leads The Quantum Race While The West Plays Catch Up
https://www.forbes.com/sites/saadia...e-quantum-race-while-the-west-plays-catch-up/

China is ahead US in quantum communication network:
China to launch world's first quantum communication network
https://phys.org/news/2017-08-china-world-quantum-network.html


US and China most likely places for disruptive innovation
https://www.consultancy.uk/news/13183/us-and-china-most-likely-places-for-disruptive-innovation
China and US are head to head for disruptive innovation

And .. if you want to see how China is bringing disruptive technology to world, you should come to CES 2018:

CES 2018 brought disruptive technologies closer to our lives
https://telecom.economictimes.india...ive-technologies-closer-to-our-lives/62503743

And CES 2018 is a China show, as China brought 1500 companies or 2/3 of whole participants to demonstrate future technology there.
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/m/beijing/zhongguancun/2018-01/09/content_35476023.htm

China is a competitor sure.....but disruptive? For all the money China has spent.....China still can't invent or develop a product that's truly revolutionary.

Why according to you: Quantum computer, Quantum communication, 5G, hypersonic, rail gun ... aren't disruptive, while sputnik was disruptive? Those technology (quantum, 5G) can really make US leading titans go bankrupt if they are not anticipative, and even can be very disruptive to the military balance as well. And leading in exascale will help a country become future leader in many research. Hypersonic and railgun could change the war game.

Quantum technology and quantum computers as disruptive technologies of digitalization
https://www.global-review.info/2017...as-disruptive-technologies-of-digitalization/

In fact it was sputnik that was not disruptive at all - just monumental, because it changed nothing except the title as "who were the first one" in the race

The practical lightbulb, the airplane, the Internet, the semiconductor, the personal computer, the iPhone, social media...to name a few. These were all revolutionary. What has China given the world over the last century?

Yes, that was revolutionary but that was past. If you are talking about 100 year past - yes China barely gave the world any revolution in tech at all. But we are talking about "NOW" and the future. At the moment China and US are head to head in disruptive innovations.

In past we were talking about internet, semiconductor, pc as revolutionary. Now and the future: Quantum technology will be revolutionary, and China leads now.

Quantum technologies to revolutionize 21st century
https://phys.org/news/2016-06-quantum-technologies-revolutionize-21st-century.html

 

[F-22Raptor]

Now let's check the reality

China ahead of US in 5G race, Deloitte says
https://www.rcrwireless.com/20180809/5g/china-ahead-of-us-in-5g-race-deloitte-says
It is clear from the title: China beat US

China launches exascale supercomputer prototype
https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/world/china-launches-exascale-supercomputer-prototype-2807341.html
US not yet launched, mean China is ahead

Hypersonic? it maybe the field comparable to USSR's Sputnic where US and China (or USSR at that time) is head to head in technology but China (or USSR) show off first

How about rail gun? China has showed it railgun on her ship, and it could be disruptive in the future naval war.

China ahead US in quantum race:
China Leads The Quantum Race While The West Plays Catch Up
https://www.forbes.com/sites/saadia...e-quantum-race-while-the-west-plays-catch-up/

China is ahead US in quantum communication network:
China to launch world's first quantum communication network
https://phys.org/news/2017-08-china-world-quantum-network.html


US and China most likely places for disruptive innovation
https://www.consultancy.uk/news/13183/us-and-china-most-likely-places-for-disruptive-innovation
China and US are head to head for disruptive innovation

And .. if you want to see how China is bringing disruptive technology to world, you should come to CES 2018:

CES 2018 brought disruptive technologies closer to our lives
https://telecom.economictimes.india...ive-technologies-closer-to-our-lives/62503743

And CES 2018 is a China show, as China brought 1500 companies or 2/3 of whole participants to demonstrate future technology there.
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/m/beijing/zhongguancun/2018-01/09/content_35476023.htm




Why according to you: Quantum computer, Quantum communication, 5G, hypersonic, rail gun ... aren't disruptive, while sputnik was disruptive? Those technology (quantum, 5G) can really make US leading titans go bankrupt if they are not anticipative, and even can be very disruptive to the military balance as well. And leading in exascale will help a country become future leader in many research. Hypersonic and railgun could change the war game.

Quantum technology and quantum computers as disruptive technologies of digitalization
https://www.global-review.info/2017...as-disruptive-technologies-of-digitalization/

In fact it was sputnik that was not disruptive at all - just monumental, because it changed nothing except the title as "who were the first one" in the race




Yes, that was revolutionary but that was past. If you are talking about 100 year past - yes China barely gave the world any revolution in tech at all. But we are talking about "NOW" and the future. At the moment China and US are head to head in disruptive innovations.

In past we were talking about internet, semiconductor, pc as revolutionary. Now and the future: Quantum technology will be revolutionary, and China leads now.

Quantum technologies to revolutionize 21st century
https://phys.org/news/2016-06-quantum-technologies-revolutionize-21st-century.html

I see you enjoy cherry picking articles to suit your agenda.

5G: Verizon, AT&T, Sprint, and T-Mobile are all introducing 5G services over the next 6-12 months. What did you not understand the first time I said this?

Exascale: You do realize those PROTOTYPES are not actually exascale computers right? they are not exascale at all. Like I said, 3-4 US exascale class computers are under contract and in development, an the US has the current fastest supercomputer in the world.

Quantum: Google and IBM are the closest companies to achieving quantum supremacy, an thereby the first step to achieving practical quantum computers.

Railgun? All China has proven is that it can mount a gun on to a ship. We've never seen it tested, and know almost nothing about its barrel. Meanwhile, we've seen multiple railgun tests conducted by the US Navy.


You can pull as many articles as you like....but it still doesn't change the fact that China hasn't created a product that has revolutionized the world. We're still waiting.

 

[antonius123]

I see you enjoy cherry picking articles to suit your agenda.

5G: Verizon, AT&T, Sprint, and T-Mobile are all introducing 5G services over the next 6-12 months. What did you not understand the first time I said this?

LOL. You are so funny

First, do you understand the difference between: "introducing" and "leading"?
Yes I know Verizon, AT&T, and Sprint will be introducing 5G in next 6-12 months, but it is HUAWEI that lead 5G, not Qualcomm, Verizon, AT&T and T-Mobile.

Second, I have given you evidence that China leads 5G tech, while you are only bragging empty claim.

Exascale: You do realize those PROTOTYPES are not actually exascale computers right? they are not exascale at all. Like I said, 3-4 US exascale class computers are under contract and in development, an the US has the current fastest supercomputer in the world.

LOL. Then where is US exascale prototype?

Prototype means more ready than "plan".

The 3-4 US exascale is non existent yet, it is planned to appear by 2021 - 2023, we dont know whether the plan will become reality in time or delayed.

While the Chinese has launched prototype while US has not means: China is more ready to launch exascale than US.

That is why China will launch exascale first on 2020, faster than US.

Tianhe-3: China says its world-first exascale supercomputer will be ready by 2020
https://www.dw.com/en/tianhe-3-chin...upercomputer-will-be-ready-by-2020/a-37635237

That means China is ahead US.

Quantum: Google and IBM are the closest companies to achieving quantum supremacy, an thereby the first step to achieving practical quantum computers.

Could you show evidence or credible article that support your claim that it is Google and IBM that lead the quantum computer?

I have shown you evidence that it is China lead the quantum computing, why can't you accept that?

Railgun? All China has proven is that it can mount a gun on to a ship. We've never seen it tested, and know almost nothing about its barrel. Meanwhile, we've seen multiple railgun tests conducted by the US Navy.

China has tested railgun on sea:
https://www.news.com.au/technology/...s/news-story/f3554a1cc140413ae16af7078f0e5cca

Where is US railgun?

Multiple railgun test conducted by US Navy is not on the ship. The challenge of the railgun on ship is on fitting the railgun on the ship; China has did it and tested it, while US has not successfully yet.

China looks set to deploy a railgun on a destroyer by 2025 — and humiliate the US Navy in doing so
https://www.businessinsider.sg/chin...ing-us-navy-south-china-sea-2018-6/?r=US&IR=T

Your cherry picking is ridiculous

You can pull as many articles as you like....but it still doesn't change the fact that China hasn't created a product that has revolutionized the world. We're still waiting.

LOL. I bring "facts" while you bring only mouthpiece

Then what can change the fact that china is creating a product that revolutionizing the world?

AI set to revolutionize healthcare industry in China
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/business/tech/2017-09/11/content_31854912.htm

These Chinese Companies Are Quietly Revolutionizing The VR Industry
https://www.forbes.com/sites/lionel...revolutionizing-the-vr-industry/#7e684d99768b

China's new submarine engine is poised to revolutionize underwater warfare
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/business/tech/2017-09/11/content_31854912.htm

You can't defeat fact with delusion

 

[Georg]

just for the record... electro magnetic rail guns are so revolutionery new that they are already on display at the WTS Museum (Wehr Technische Studiensammlung/ Defence Technology Studycollection) in Koblenz Germany.... there are since years two prototype guns on dislplay ....

to mount this on a ship is no big achivment... Germany could have done that 20 years ago...

Railgun function diagram Germany from 1945... in 1944 Germany has sorted out all work priciples for a modern electro magnetic railgun... they wanted to use them as FLAK against allied bombers... problem was power supply and the avaible electric power at that time.

Germany´s Rheinmetal installed a 30 megajoul gun in 1994 in their EZU testrange and did tonnes of testing, thats almost 15 years befor the USA installed their first 32megajoul gun.. just to get that in the right context... the USA installed their first 32 megajoul gun in the late 2000´s and thir first 64megajouls gun in 2016.

USA and China are not even close to lead in this field... they are just the two making big noise about it...

 

[Tom M]

As we all know currently USA is the sole Super power in this world but there was a time when there was another ( USSR ) but it crumbled and divided into several small independent states. After giving some thought into it , I wonder what cause the USSR to collapse ? was it bad economy ? weak Army ? lack of allies or their support ? strategic blunders ? etc ..

There is this one question that pop into my head about the afghan war which struck the last nail in the USSR coffin , USSR was badly losing in Afghanistan .. Americans use their every possible Ally in the region to beat them , Pakistan trained and Fought with Afghans to hurt USSR , Arabs poured in Millions of Dollars and manpower , and so Europe back US actions . Who were USSR Allies and what were they doing ? I can think of India as very close ally to USSR , and they are the closest to help their cause with money or manpower but why they didn't do it ? why USSR did not use the same tactics US used against them ??

Please discuss ..

@Oscar @Inception-06 @django @Beast @Signalian @Indus Pakistan @HRK @tps77 @war&peace @Mentee @Zarvan @Basel @Game.Invade @MastanKhan @Windjammer @Kaniska @AUSTERLITZ @HariPrasad @vostok @F-22Raptor @jhungary @VCheng @Knuckles @jamahir @Combat-Master @gambit @illusion8

Please keep the discussion as Civil/formal as possible ..

Indian can be a strategic partner but never an ally. A big, big difference in diplomatic terms. After all we are the champions, founding members of the Non Aligned Movement.

So it would be foolish for any. Friendly, partner nation to think India will become their allie and fight their war. The reason why Mr. Trump had to request, I repeat request India for assistance in Afghanistan, while the same U.S.A is insisting some of our neighbours to do more for them.

 

[gambit]

LOL. You are so funny

First, do you understand the difference between: "introducing" and "leading"?
Yes I know Verizon, AT&T, and Sprint will be introducing 5G in next 6-12 months, but it is HUAWEI that lead 5G, not Qualcomm, Verizon, AT&T and T-Mobile.

Second, I have given you evidence that China leads 5G tech, while you are only bragging empty claim.

This is why you are CONTINUALLY the laughing stock when it comes to understanding technology issues. Most likely because you have never worked in anything 'tech'. Like your fraudulent 'aviation studies' claim.

For those of us who actually WORKS in technology fields, we have the understanding that the true leader of a certain technology is the one who have the technology while no one else does. There is a difference between having the technology versus deployment. Further, deployment in limited in scope does not equate to inferior technology. When you are talking about the public airwaves, it is the laws that determines the scope of deployment and currently, the US is reviewing the frequency spectrum and that is the real barrier to US deployment of 5G deployment. Not that the US is behind China in the 5G technology.

https://www.fcc.gov/engineering-tec...es-division/general/radio-spectrum-allocation

China have been historically behind the US in just about every technology field until the Chinese government wised up and began to reform the country, so of course being new, China will have greater flexibility in deployment of new wireless technologies. US companies are delayed by EXISTING usage of current spectrum allocation, plus, we cannot simply tear down or modify existing structures such as towers or relay stations as they have to remain in place to service the public. China do not have this problem to the degree that the US does.

What a buffoon you are...

 

[antonius123]

This is why you are CONTINUALLY the laughing stock when it comes to understanding technology issues. Most likely because you have never worked in anything 'tech'. Like your fraudulent 'aviation studies' claim.

For those of us who actually WORKS in technology fields, we have the understanding that the true leader of a certain technology is the one who have the technology while no one else does. There is a difference between having the technology versus deployment. Further, deployment in limited in scope does not equate to inferior technology. When you are talking about the public airwaves, it is the laws that determines the scope of deployment and currently, the US is reviewing the frequency spectrum and that is the real barrier to US deployment of 5G deployment. Not that the US is behind China in the 5G technology.

https://www.fcc.gov/engineering-tec...es-division/general/radio-spectrum-allocation

China have been historically behind the US in just about every technology field until the Chinese government wised up and began to reform the country, so of course being new, China will have greater flexibility in deployment of new wireless technologies. US companies are delayed by EXISTING usage of current spectrum allocation, plus, we cannot simply tear down or modify existing structures such as towers or relay stations as they have to remain in place to service the public. China do not have this problem to the degree that the US does.

What a buffoon you are...

I am working in tech field, thats why I can say you are fraud

I am not talking about deployment when I said China is ahead US in 5G race, etc. I am talking about technology mastery. It is your friends F-22Raptor who is thinking deployment = technology mastery when he bragged Verizon, Sprint etc as indication of 5G tech mastery

It seems you are too dense to grab the point of discussion as usual, thats why you are always an object of laughing