A Path to peace

[I.R.A]

• extremist is any Imam who goes against the teachings of Islam
• insults any other sect
• insults any Islamic figure which may cause anger in other sects
• passes fatwas on the killing of other people
• uses his power to create any sort of militia
• goes against the state
• justifies the wrongful killing of innocent civilians

To be honest if you look at the population of Pakistan they are against people like the head of Lal masjid. There is extreme pressure on every Imam and there is a close eye being kept on what is being said
For every extremist Imam you hear about there are thousands of good Imams out there. A population of 180 million people there will be bad seeds and it our job to slowly root them out. There is no other way but certifying the Imams and keeping a close eye on what is being said.

I remember how many times during prayers and especially on Friday I had questions I wanted to ask the Imam Sb., but Imam sbs. are always busy feeding public their own lectures and nobody dare interrupt them during that, I wonder why not instead of Urdu Khutba Government passes regulation for Imams to hold question and answer sessions on Fridays. Listen to public's questions and answer them, that way we will know how educated Imam sb. is and it will mitigate hate speech on loud speakers.

 

[Gufi]

I remember how many times during prayers and especially on Friday I had questions I wanted to ask the Imam Sb., but Imam sbs. are always busy feeding public their own lectures and nobody dare interrupt them during that, I wonder why not instead of Urdu Khutba Government passes regulation for Imams to hold question and answer sessions on Fridays. Listen to public's questions and answer them, that way we will know how educated Imam sb. is and it will mitigate hate speech on loud speakers.

the first issue to understand is that the khutbah is part of the prayer. that is why we pray 2 rakah instead of 4.
also one should go and find time other then friday. Weekdays after asr and between maghrib and Isha prayer they are available to talk to.

 

[I.R.A]

the first issue to understand is that the khutbah is part of the prayer. that is why we pray 2 rakah instead of 4.
also one should go and find time other then friday. Weekdays after asr and between maghrib and Isha prayer they are available to talk to.

Na Bahi Urdu Khutba is no part of Friday prayers, Arabic khutba is, the time Imam Sb. spends on Urdu khutba can be utilised to listen to questions of Namazis.

Yar Imam Sbs. have their own protocols some of them listen to you and encourage you to ask questions, but others are just closed systems they do not encourage discussion and you cannot approach them after prayers.

Friday time is the best because most people attend Friday prayers.

 

[MastanKhan]

At least unlike you we the Pakistanis had balls to stay here and face whatever you wish us to face. You were the ones who deserted your homeland, you are the ones who are attracted by the West, you are the ones who preferred your personal well being over your Nation's. I had the opportunity and chance to leave my country but I chose to stay because I knew this country gave me education, gave me the love, the identification, the pride, the sense of belonging, the courage to face challenges. Though I face a lot of ill treatment, though there are many ills in my country, I know my society is corrupt from bottom to top, its hard for me to live as a law abiding citizen in this country, me and my family face danger at every step, the current status of my country and my country men sometimes gets me frustrated, but I am determined I will not leave my country, I will prefer dying here then standing in ques and begging for visas or asylums. I will stay and face both expat goons like you and these coward terrorists because I am not a deserter.

Next time when your expat a$$ wants to curse us Pakistanis just remember that you are the deserters, the cowards who preferred their own personal goals over serving their country, you can keep your investment and lectures to yourself. May be one day you will come back looking for your identity, just remember how you cursed us Pakistanis. Till then have a good western time and enjoy till it lasts.
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Sir,

You are a new member and welcome to the board.

Let us make something clear and set the rules. This board has been here for almost 10 years----or close to it---. One thing we don't say is----that I chose to stay back here and you have moved out or you are a deserter and the like of it.

You have your share of things and I have mine----but all nations cherish their expats and listen and learn as to how to make things better---on the top of the list is Israel and getting to #2 is India----except for pakistan.

India also had the same problem and attitude till 2000-01 and then they woke up and accepted---these expats are our asset---why are we threatening them and harassing them---. And as india wants to take the nation to a newer pleateau---Modi has asked the expats again to participate more---and what have you done---rejected them again.

If you wanted to be honest with your country---you should have gone out and worked and then come back---so that at least you had a reference point if you wanted to make a change.

I did not say that these terrorists are not musims---I did not say that a muslim cannot commit these atrocities---that is what you were saying---. Did you take a stand when 18 French engineers were killed by the terrorists----. The French had sold us the most advanced submarines in south asia---. Did you take a stand when Chinese engineers were killed----I get the answer----.

Little brother---you just have a sob story to tell---you have failed your nation---it was our money that saved you in 2001---it was because of our funds that you survived to stand to me---it was because of our resource and relationship with other nations that those nations developed a soft spot for you---. Don't shit in the cup that you drink out of---okay.

And this typical piece of poetry that you Pakistani recite in sarcasm----get rid of this POS----warriors have no time and place for poetry----it is absolute waste f paper it is written on.

Cut thru the crap and personal bullshit and write something---tell us what you are made up of---

 

[Imran Khan]

declare pakistan a seculer state cut off religious laws and ban religious political parties is only way to move .demolish all madrases and make them play grounds .

 

[I.R.A]

Sir,

You are a new member and welcome to the board.

Thanks and I appreciate it.

Let us make something clear and set the rules. This board has been here for almost 10 years----or close to it---. One thing we don't say is----that I chose to stay back here and you have moved out or you are a deserter and the like of it.

So the rules are you can point to a Pakistani and curse but a Pakistani cannot respond? You can say Pakistanis can go to hell, they can rot and a Pakistani needs to sallow it? If these are the rules than better have me banned I do not care and won't post on a forum that does not believe in equal treatment.

You have your share of things and I have mine----but all nations cherish their expats and listen and learn as to how to make things better---on the top of the list is Israel and getting to #2 is India----except for pakistan.

I would respect any expat Pakistani (and I do) who does not start cursing us simple as that, and who does not have dual identity period. Do not think by moving abroad you have earned the right to lecture us about our ills. Come up with something positive and we will accept it. But what I saw was your ranting of Death to Pakistanis.

If you wanted to be honest with your country---you should have gone out and worked and then come back---so that at least you had a reference point if you wanted to make a change.

First thing I do not need your certificate for my honesty thanks but no thanks, second thing I am part of change by choosing to stay in my country and bring up my children and teach them what problems we have and how we have to stand in the troubled times. I do not need to take them anywhere and then come back to Pakistan looking for suitable Pakistani girl or boy for them (that's what most of you expats do).

I did not say that these terrorists are not musims---I did not say that a muslim cannot commit these atrocities---that is what you were saying---. Did you take a stand when 18 French engineers were killed by the terrorists----. The French had sold us the most advanced submarines in south asia---. Did you take a stand when Chinese engineers were killed----I get the answer----.

When did I say anything about terrorists or their beliefs? If the French had sold us submarines those were not for free and if Chinese are here they are not here just to serve us what is the point in mentioning this?

Little brother---you just have a sob story to tell---you have failed your nation---it was our money that saved you in 2001---it was because of our funds that you survived to stand to me---it was because of our resource and relationship with other nations that those nations developed a soft spot for you---. Don't shit in the cup that you drink out of---okay.

So you start nice and then go back to your genuine mentality? This is the best you can come up with? My Older Uncle type brother I can reply you for this but sorry I do not have time for your childish rants. Next time when you are asked donations for Pakistan, most happily refuse it we Pakistanis do not need your money. And by the way my monthly tax here is equal to a Police Officers monthly salary which I regularly pay.

And this typical piece of poetry that you Pakistani recite in sarcasm----get rid of this POS----warriors have no time and place for poetry----it is absolute waste f paper it is written on.

Cut thru the crap and personal bullshit and write something---tell us what you are made up of---

I hope you have not heard of Iqbal. A shit head can only call his poetry POS. By the way there is PHD in Iqbaliat.

I can tell you a lot what I am made up of but its useless to tell anything to people like you.

 

[MastanKhan]

The issue is that there has to be realism as well as practicality in the words. If i say the biggest problems that are confronting this country are leaderless corrupt governments and say they should be held accountable it sounds nice but it is not practial. I understand what you said about being an expat i have spent more then 80 percent of my life outside this country, The article dealt with changes needed to rid the country of extremist mind sets.
Poverty, feudalism and lawless states are part of the problem as well as unchecked religious fanatics. As far as your grievance about electing the most corrupt government i totally agree with you there and I understand that the system we had before this phase of democracy was really much better at giving rights to the common man but we can not look to the past nor can we uproot the whole system completely. If we could the first thing I would do is get a fair judicial system and honest bureaucrats working with an educated honest parliament. @MastanKhan

Hi,

The judiciary is not going to be hoest on its own---. If they fear the terrorists and make favors to them---then you need to make the judges fear you as well---if you cannot hang some judges for incompetence---your judiciary is not going anywhere.

All you kids are just jumping up and down---thinking of doing this and doing that but you have no clue where to start----. You people have no clue how your religion Islam started and spread everywhere it wet----. Nobody became a muslim to say the prayers 5 times a day or to fast for 30 days or to go to haj or to pay zakat.

People converted to Islam for equal rights---justice for one and justice for all----no difference between the rich---the poor or the resourceful---safety and the forceful imposition of the rule of order and law. These are the fundamental building blocks---the foundations of any society. You have none of those.

Before you start taking on the mullahs---you have to have the public on your side---and in order for you to do that---you have to start cleaning up petty crime---people need a ray of light---people need hope and the only way that you can give them hope is thru enforcing some order in the society.

Order needs to restored in the society---if they see order---people will fall in line----.

The second most---actually it is the most important issue---a member of parliament can only run for election from one and only one place---the place he has declared his residence and where he lived the previous year as shown on his / hes taxes.

Other than that---start hanging them and they will get in line real quick----make every major crime a crime against the state of Pakistan---like burning a bus or a train or stealing train spare parts or of an mode of transportation parts---blocking the highways---anything that slows r stops trade should be a part of a terrorist act---teachers not showing up at work should be considered as a sabotage against the future generations of Pakistan----, Make the criminals fear for their lives----when they see the necks that are being stretched by the rope----all the king kongs get in line real fast.

Speedy trials and quick justice----.

I hope you have not heard of Iqbal. A shit head can only call his poetry POS. By the way there is PHD in Iqbaliat.

I can tell you a lot what I am made up of but its useless to tell anything to people like you.

Sir,

Iqbal is old news---his time came---it achieved what needed to be done---His time is gone----. In this day and age---his philosophy does not hold much---if he was alive---he would have told the Pakistanis the same thing----.

I have his books---it is just an old story---that was told once an cannot be repeated.

 

[Gufi]

thank you now that is what is needed productive feedback. There are some very valid points in there. I understand your anger but please do not generalize. sometimes a minority can hoard power and wealth and breaking the shackles are not easy

Hi,

and on a side note sir read shikhwa jawab shikwa by Iqbal really still applicable about the mullahs stealing the religion...

 

[OrionHunter]

Excellent post @Gufi

You've called a spade a spade. But how many have the guts to take on the Mullah mafia? For example, that Lal Masjid Imam who has been served a non-bailable arrest warrant is yet to be arrested by the government. Is it because they lack the will to do so? This non action is encouraging extremists to carry on with their agenda knowing full well that they are beyond the law of the land.

On November 29, 2014 the students of Jamia Hafsa, the extremist all girls seminary connected to the Lal Masjid, made and circulated a video in support of the ISIS and Baghdadi besides asking the Pakistani militants to join hands with IS fighters. When questioned, instead of disowning the video, the extremist Imam of the mosque, Abdul Aziz Ghazi said, "I don’t know why these boys are reluctant to say that we support the ISIS organization which wants to implement the Islamic system."

So, eradicating extremism and militancy is going to be an uphill task, unless the government displays the will to come down hard on such elements.

 

[Gufi]

Excellent post @Gufi

i can only write the day i get power to do anything else i would try to fix as much as I could.

 

[Slav Defence]

@Gufi

Beautiful post ,very well written article mate,
I believe that we have proposed lots of solutions .however unless we won't be able to implement them-therefore it is useless to argue over and over again
Wonderful posts once again
Regards

 

[MastanKhan]

thank you now that is what is needed productive feedback. There are some very valid points in there. I understand your anger but please do not generalize. sometimes a minority can hoard power and wealth and breaking the shackles are not easy

and on a side note sir read shikhwa jawab shikwa by Iqbal really still applicable about the mullahs stealing the religion...

Hi,

I can understand that---for you and Mr Rashid---Iqbal holds the light---but fr me coming back to it after 80-90 years and be still at the same spot---or worst than before----I would be ashamed to even mention that such a writing existed. ..Iqbal and his poetry's time was 70-80 years ago---now it does not mean much---the fantasy land that Iqbal delves into---does not exist any more---. The problem arises when he says a momin is not stung at the same place twice---so---our chance came and is gone---we are just ordinary people trying to find some sanity in this chaos.

I have heard many a sob stories about Iqbal and Iqbaliyat by the so called followers of Iqbal---. They have no concept where to start----just like our colleague Rashid----cannot think with a cool mind when facing adversity.

 

[Gufi]

Hi,

Khan saab,
rather then turn this into a debate i would like to tell you not to bunch people into groups. It is akin to saying all Muslims are terrorists or all Americans are evil or whatever example you would prefer. 50 percent of the people struggle to make a living and can not think above gas and electricity. Remember that things are difficult and it is not the fault of the youth today. We just started our lives and we still have hope of making this a better place. I understand the treatment of expats has not been good but the common man has always appreciated them. Laws are passed and changes made in policy by a select few who continue to enslave the people. Ridding ourselves of them is another chapter for another discussion but please try and be civil towards those in this country because many of us try to fix things as best as we can.

 

[MastanKhan]

Khan saab,
rather then turn this into a debate i would like to tell you not to bunch people into groups. It is akin to saying all Muslims are terrorists or all Americans are evil or whatever example you would prefer. 50 percent of the people struggle to make a living and can not think above gas and electricity. Remember that things are difficult and it is not the fault of the youth today. We just started our lives and we still have hope of making this a better place. I understand the treatment of expats has not been good but the common man has always appreciated them. Laws are passed and changes made in policy by a select few who continue to enslave the people. Ridding ourselves of them is another chapter for another discussion but please try and be civil towards those in this country because many of us try to fix things as best as we can.

Hi,

Do you know how flares work!

 

[Gufi]

Do you know how flares work!

please explain what you would like to say