A new realism - A must read for Pakistanis

[Gandh brandi]

Sorry we eat roti not grass. Bulls and sheep eat grass and we eat them .... We have no issue with India other than Kashmir ....

That famous line: "if India builds the bomb, we will eat grass or leaves, even go hungry, but we will get one of our own."
~ Z. A. Bhutto

 

[doppelganger]

Afghanistan is not your neighbor. Its a neighbor of your neighbor that you always wanted to use ( which you did and are doing) against your neighbor.

The Afghani people have always been our civilizational neighbors. Long before your side became a neighbor.

Even after a part of us became a "neighbor", there was a 100 km wide land bridge we had with the Afghan people, which has been denied to us by you side by ambush occupying our land.

It all starts from there.

 

[hunter_hunted]

That famous line: "if India builds the bomb, we will eat grass or leaves, even go hungry, but we will get one of our own."
~ Z. A. Bhutto

And we were still eating roti and were building Nukes at the sametime . See where are we now.

and that has created tons of issue for PK, sooner u realize Kashmir issue is dead, and you have more to deal with internally, better you come out of a mess you are into right now.

Kashmir is not dead its just in hibernate mode. But i had high hopes that Parvez Musharaf and Atal Behari Vajpaye will solve this issue. But i guess the powers behind the curtain doesn't wanted that to happen

 

[doppelganger]

Kashmir is not dead its just in hibernate mode. But i had high hopes that Parvez Musharaf and Atal Behari Vajpaye will solve this issue. But i guess the powers behind the curtain doesn't wanted that to happen

Let me tell you what the people on the ground (our Army) think.

Kashmir is never going to be "solved" in the sense you guys dream about it being solved.

Kashmir is never going to be solved in the way 1.25 billion Indians want it to be solved. Which is 370 will probably never be removed. AFSPA is there to stay. And the Pandits are never going to return home.

Kashmir status quo suits everyone who is in a position to change it. From all three sides.

The rest of us can want whatever we want and can keep writing thousands of pages about it online.

@SarthakGanguly @third eye

 

[I.R.A]

The Afghani people have always been our civilizational neighbors. Long before your side became a neighbor.

Even after a part of us became a "neighbor", there was a 100 km wide land bridge we had with the Afghan people, which has been denied to us by you side by ambush occupying our land.

It all starts from there.

Your cordial relationship with Afghanistan has one and only one aim, harm Pakistan and get benefit for yourself. Otherwise you have nothing in common with Afghans at all forget it. When they were getting invaded by Russia you were not there to support them or look after their refugees, and when they were going to be invaded again by US and company you most happily willing to offer your bases and that was the reason Pakistan had to offer he bases.

Don't pretend please.

 

[coffee_cup]

Indians and their wet dreams, seriously!

Keep on dreaming, meanwhile I hope india still stays in tact as a country and 28-30 insurgencies taking place all over india (even though not really making to the headlines) do not get out of control.

Just one advice for indians: Live and let others live!

Stop cross-border terrorism in neighboring countries and Pakistanis may even start respecting you as a neighbor.

Continue on this destructive path, and some day you are gonna reap what you are sowing.

You can get all those mental orgasms by such piece of tra$h in your media, but it will remain what it is..... a wet dream!

 

[third eye]

Let me tell you what the people on the ground (our Army) think.

Kashmir is never going to be "solved" in the sense you guys dream about it being solved.

Kashmir is never going to be solved in the way 1.25 billion Indians want it to be solved. Which is 370 will probably never be removed. AFSPA is there to stay. And the Pandits are never going to return home.

Kashmir status quo suits everyone who is in a position to change it. From all three sides.

The rest of us can want whatever we want and can keep writing thousands of pages about it online.

@SarthakGanguly @third eye

There are options, not all can ' should be discussed in public forums.

J&K has become a source of livelihood for some , the raison d'etre for some and a job giver to the US, China, Russia to name a few.

I agree that 370 may not go and should not go .. yet. Its time has not yet come.

It will be solved but for it to be solved things need to move elsewhere.

I agree only partially with the post.

 

[Levina]

I at times see a lot of similarities between the Congress Party in India & the Pak stance .

In ability to change with times and adapt.

Survival of the fittest theory!
Congress is struggling to survive, while Pakistan can survive only if they get a better leader.

 

[third eye]

Survival of the fittest theory!
Congress is struggling to survive, while Pakistan can survive only if they get a better leader.

I suspect that time has gone.

The change has to come ground up. Religious fundamentalism has crossed a point of no return.

 

[AnnoyingOrange]

A new realism

Beijing and Washington want a stable, viable Pakistan able to contain its viper’s nest of terrorists

President Obama’s recent visit to India, while ignoring Pakistan, is being seen as a “diplomatic failure of Islamabad”. Failure or not, the visit does warrant a review of the effectiveness of Pakistan’s foreign policy given the changing nature of a state and the realities of the international scene.

Generally speaking, a country’s foreign policy is the face that it presents to the rest of the world and should, therefore, be based on a unified vision of the national interest. In foreign policy terms, one good definition of vital national interests is those “conditions that are strictly necessary to safeguard and enhance the well-being of the people in a free and secure nation”.


Weak states like Pakistan, defined by underdevelopment, economic and political vulnerability with limited political and economic influence, have much to gain from positive relations with the rest of the world. A successful foreign policy employs a balance of economic, diplomatic and military tools to reach its goals. The key benchmarks are: first and foremost, a country’s foreign policy should help secure the nation against external threats. Second, governments are also supposed to help their citizens lead more comfortable and happier lives. Third, a country’s foreign policy is consistent with accepted moral standards and is effective at promoting broader political values.




Historically, the ‘military controlled foreign policy of the Pakistani state has been driven by short-term goals and self-preservation. Internal political and economic weaknesses have compelled the state to seek outside support, developing a syndrome of external dependence and unequal alliances.

The continuous look for external channels to resolve internal issues has also meant that the primacy of domestic issues has never been fully established. The Pakistani state, apart from the military, is considered shaky and its economic performance judged to be disastrous.

It is often listed as a precariously poised country that could be in a downward spiral towards becoming a failed state. Pakistan’s domestic failures have seriously constricted its foreign policy options. Decades of political instability resulting from protracted military rule, institutional paralysis, poor governance, socio-economic malaise, rampant crime and corruption, and general aversion to the rule of law have exacerbated Pakistan’s external image and standing. Terrorism seems to be its sole identity now. The country is seen both as a problem and as a key to its solution.


The main interest of Pakistan’s major foreign patrons, the US and China, is to ensure that their client state does not to fail. Beijing and Washington want a stable, viable Pakistan able to contain its viper’s nest of terrorists. Both want to ensure the Pakistani military keeps a firm hold on nuclear weapons. Washington and Beijing also want to see an end to the long era of enmity and a turn around of Pakistan’s troubled bilateral relationship with India.

For foreign patrons, the maintenance of a strategic balance in the South Asian region takes a backseat to Pakistan’s alleged support for terrorism. Today, there are few buyers for Pakistan’s narrow India-centric worldview. Sloganeering on atrocities in disputed Kashmir, India’s hegemonic designs in South Asia and its conniving machinations to undo Pakistan does not resonate internationally. What would really make the difference for Pakistan’s allies is if the country were to come to terms with its reduced ideological and cultural appeal, its technological backwardness as well as limited economic resources, and if it abandoned, as a practical foreign policy objective, the aspiration of being a regional equal of — to say nothing of being superior to — India. India is well positioned to use a “policy of strength” and “exploit the power disparity” in its relationship with Pakistan. Turning the ‘ominous’ signs of the US-India embrace into an opportunity to normalise the relationship with India would improve Pakistan’s international standing and resolve many domestic challenges that have stymied progress.


There is a pressing need for a transformative rethink of Pakistan’s foreign policy, which appears to be firmly rooted in the past. The review must be with an open mind but without wishful thinking and excessive sentimentality, and away from a slavish commitment to the status quo and the rejection of change. A shift is required from the distinctive security conscious mindset propagated by the military that has uncritically continued the idiom of the foreign policy debates of the past. The focus should be on strengthening democratic institutions that can ensure civilian control of national policies.


The fight against the scourge of terrorism will be helped by less religious influence on the state and a reduction in the often out-of-control religious fervour. The country has to focus on improving national capacity, education, economy, infrastructure and good governance. The contours of foreign policy must change from a “desperate search for arms” to international private-public partnerships to spur economic development. Pakistan should take unilateral steps to resolve differences with its neighbours, tear down trade barriers and usher in a new era. It must demonstrate a new sense of purpose, a new realism and a new creativity in international relations — away from excessive dependence on aid to trade and economic relations. If Pakistan can shed the mentality of dependence on external patrons, it could begin to harness the potential of its people and its land towards independence and self-reliance.

A new realism

Well.. in the end...Pakistan belongs to Pakistanis..its up to them to either make something out of it or take it to the dogs... I as an Individual would like the country to progress as it adds value to the neighborhood...but then again... if they want to be left alone and do their thing and dump their motherland into the see... who am I to say.. their country...their future.

 

[JohnyD]

Kashmir is not dead its just in hibernate mode. But i had high hopes that Parvez Musharaf and Atal Behari Vajpaye will solve this issue. But i guess the powers behind the curtain doesn't wanted that to happen

AGree on the bolded one, both leaders had support from their respective systems..

See my friend, there is no solution if you want to close your eyes and see the world...

YOu know, we know and the whole world know it very clear and well...we will never give up Kashmir..Today, India is in much better and stronger position than it were when the Kashmir issue was at its peak..we managed to handle the situation all the time.

Now, for us, there is no issue called as Kashmir issue, Pakistan is the issue for India as it does cross border terrorism...But looking at the U turn taken by the Pakistan's home grown terrorists, I guess there is going to be reduction in cross border terrorism as well!

If at all Indian leadership want to be generous on this so called Kashmir issue that disturbs Pakistan or has become an ego problem for their forces, at the most what we can do is, couple of meetings and then let some kind of free movements between Kashmirs of two sides..thats it! there is nothing much you can expect from India neither you deserve anything!

trust me!

 

[doppelganger]

Your cordial relationship with Afghanistan has one and only one aim, harm Pakistan and get benefit for yourself. Otherwise you have nothing in common with Afghans at all forget it. When they were getting invaded by Russia you were not there to support them or look after their refugees, and when they were going to be invaded again by US and company you most happily willing to offer your bases and that was the reason Pakistan had to offer he bases.

Don't pretend please.

Oh puhleeeeze man. Now you are going to get sanctimonious with an Indian for his country paying you back in the same coin?

We do not have to "have anything in common" with a neighbor to be a good neighbor. We have as much in common with the Afghans as your Punjabi and Sindhis do. And we do not occupy Afghan land or have a border dispute with the Afghans as you do.

We have as much in common with the Afghans as we have with Sri Lankans or Bhutanese or the Burmese people. All civilizational neighbors for millenia.

Just because you suddenly make a separate and different country between us and a millenial long neighbor, does not make him any less of a neighbor.

Please get off the high horse of sanctimonious indignation here.

J&K has become a source of livelihood for some , the raison d'etre for some and a job giver to the US, China, Russia to name a few.

Sir this is what my dad's coursemates say. Status quoist disputed Kashmir is a cash cow. A cash cow with zero accountability and audit. A black hole of central funds.

 

[third eye]

Sir this is what my dad's coursemates say. Status quoist disputed Kashmir is a cash cow. A cash cow with zero accountability and audit.

Its party time all around on both sides of the LOC !

Why would anyone want it to end ?

if disputes cease Attorneys will starve.

 

[Levina]

I suspect that time has gone.

The change has to come ground up. Religious fundamentalism has crossed a point of no return.

Fingers crossed!
That would effect our country too.

For selfish reasons I want Pakistan to recover from this mess.

 

[third eye]

Fingers crossed!
That would effect our country too.

For selfish reasons I want Pakistan to recover from this mess.

It already is.

We cannot pretend its not happening.