A NEW AIRCRAFT FOR PAF

[ACE OF THE AIR]

he he he wow so above mentioned is all about what you think about india and its diplomacy then i guess... khair janne do

It is not my assumption but what you (India) is trying to perceive. Russia would not sell this to Pakistan because India spends billions and so on...

Fact is Russian economy is not doing well so it is going to find any one who is willing to provide some life line even if that lifeline is for a micro second.
Here is an other proverb Doob te ko tin ke ka saha ra...

Who is stopping India from becoming the Blue Eyed boy or lets just say pappu bacha of USA. You know how pappu bacha are treated?

I do not understand why you can not come out of the Mig-29 / 35 frame of mind. It does not offer any thing drastic over the F-16's. Moreover the Russians have ordered the Mig-35 in large numbers hence they are no way these aircraft would be available till 2020 hence these are out of the question... as you said Khair jaane do

 

[Muhammad Omar]

well after 39 pages of discussion can we know about the expected date or month of the deal??

 

[Zain Malik]

well after 39 pages of discussion can we know about the expected date or month of the deal??

Coming Soon Eurofighter Typhoon

 

[barbarosa]

well after 39 pages of discussion can we know about the expected date or month of the deal??

No Sir we will try to trace the answer of the enigmas.

 

[GURU DUTT]

It is not my assumption but what you (India) is trying to perceive. Russia would not sell this to Pakistan because India spends billions and so on...

Fact is Russian economy is not doing well so it is going to find any one who is willing to provide some life line even if that lifeline is for a micro second.
Here is an other proverb Doob te ko tin ke ka saha ra...

Who is stopping India from becoming the Blue Eyed boy or lets just say pappu bacha of USA. You know how pappu bacha are treated?

I do not understand why you can not come out of the Mig-29 / 35 frame of mind. It does not offer any thing drastic over the F-16's. Moreover the Russians have ordered the Mig-35 in large numbers hence they are no way these aircraft would be available till 2020 hence these are out of the question... as you said Khair jaane do

sirji aap mujhko bann karva ker hi manoge

point is we and not friends i mean india and pakistan and both of us keep trying to stop latest weapons sales to other by a third party and there is nothing wrong in it

as for russia well they have many other nations as export coustmores asweel and most of them are US allies also so your argument fails why they will only listen to india or china for that matter

we can never become a blue eyed boy of any nation be it Russia , USA , UK or france or Japan or even Israel and we also dont beleve or practise or strive for that kind of diplomatic status we want to do buisness and trade with every one even china for that matter

now what Mig29 give that F16 dosent well one word combat range and latest HMDS-HOBS-IRST-BVR combo which no US or its allies will ever give to you ... try it if im wrong

plus the fact a fully loaded Mig29/35 gonna cost around 40million dollars per popand it has engine comminality with JF17 and is almost 40% cheaper to fly and mantain than a Su35 and has the same number of hardpoints and same weight carrying capacity as that of a fully loaded F16Blk52 rest you can speculate yourself

 

[Arsalan]

Sir,

A question raised by Mastan Khan was

"At what service sealing the survivability rate is higher?"

SAM systems since the time STAR WARS was conceived in the 60's to intercept missiles and high level aircraft in outer space. At that time it was considered that Satellites should have some kind of missile or lazer that could be fire to intercept.

This would indicate that the survivability of aircraft was getting limited. In present day war situation Outer Space has been deemed to be a non weapons domain.

• "States shall not place nuclear weapons or other weapons of mass destruction in orbit or on celestial bodies or station them in outer space in any other manner;"

http://www.unoosa.org/oosa/en/ourwork/spacelaw/treaties/introouterspacetreaty.html

For this very reason most of the super powers along with the developed countries who could afford to manufacture missile capable of reaching Outer Space started working on having some for their own safe guards. Two or three countries have openly tested this system. They targeted their own old satellites that were meant to be brought back to the Earth where they would disintegrate while re-entering the Earths atmosphere due to friction.

These satellites were how ever destroyed by a missile in outer space. The UN-COPUOS objected to this by condemning it and saying that this increased the chance of Space Debris which could cause ore damage then the complete satellite.

Costs during War are based on many factors as you know, one can not say that it is wise not to do this and this technology should not be used. Hence in my post referred to the term "Idealistic".

Sir, where you quoted 'Full Extent?" I meant both EW and Stealth have certain advantages and disadvantages hence both systems can not be used to their potential due to technology of countering them has evolved at a faster rate than to the primary technology.

This is where you yourself reached. For this very reason I did not explain as I knew you would reach to where I was pointing.

I hope this post is more understandable...

Dear the point is that in all of this what you said here and your previous posts? Where was the reply to what Mastan khan asked?

The projects that you pointed to were all considered and even worked on but were not practical enough to engage aircraft. The costs involved was just one of the factors. Please read it again as this is important and I do not want you to miss this, the cost involved was just ONE of the factors. Those programs or there offshoots developed into anti-Satellite programs and that is a practical application. Reason being the number of Satellites one may need to take down. There is no way anyone can produce enough anti-satellite category missiles to handle hundreds of aircrafts attacking in packs! Again, attacking in packs! That is the reason why I said that none of this is practical. I hope you understand. Furthermore, as I requested you earlier, there is not much need to bring in work of fiction as even the more realistic options, the real day operation surface to air missiles that are more commonly known about and thus will be easier to understand, again, easier to understand compared to STARWAR projects, do have enough service altitude to take down any high flying aircraft. That is why I said that using altitude as a mean of escape have been made difficult if not impossible by the modern day SAM systems.

As for stealth, yes, that is what i was saying that EW suites present a competition between stealth and jamming. Both will have its advantages and disadvantages and none will be 100% efficient. That is what i said when i replied to the below statement by yourself

In the way of distraction and confusion it could work however not to the full extent.

Source: https://defence.pk/threads/a-new-aircraft-for-paf.435458/page-39#ixzz4CUROdHt

THIS cannot be used as a point for stealth over jamming as both will have there limitations.

 

[for truth]

Why you Indian posters keep on giving such 'sincere' advice to us and keep pedalling Mig-29. It is a piece of Junk..

It has absolutely embarrassing range of a fighter, will find it very hard beyond 200 km combat radius with a centreline tank if it really wants to fight and survive a dog fight. It is lousy when it comes to speed and acceleration, too energy depleting, with couple of hard turns against an F-16 it will be so slow that the pilot will be forced to say whatever prayers and tanter manter he needs for a bit of luck in such shit. Its RCS is like a sore to eyes on radar screen and you will be amazed how far even radar operators on radar stations are able to see it. F-16 has a RCS much below 3ms, low enough that IAF's legs tremble when even they hear of an order of 8 jets.

Thanks a lot, keep this junk. We are not interested..



Wow, you have lot of operational and tactical acumen, kudos...

By the way, it may be interesting to your that Swedish retired radar operators bragged about being able to detect Su-27s flying from their bases around St. petersburg which is about 700 km from their border and that radar they mentioned was also 1960s vintage. Su-30 MKI RCS unfortunately has not come down that much in RCS terms, I do not think that IAF will be stupid like you and will send its precious Su-30s MKIs to fly around in 500-600 km ranges opposite our coast. Surprise bounces is still a big reality in air..

In your opinion, is this news reliable?

What sort of plane Pakistan may eventually buy?

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

sirji aap mujhko bann karva ker hi manoge

now what Mig29 give that F16 dosent well one word combat range and latest HMDS-HOBS-IRST-BVR combo which no US or its allies will ever give to you ... try it if im wrong

plus the fact a fully loaded Mig29/35 gonna cost around 40million dollars per popand it has engine comminality with JF17 and is almost 40% cheaper to fly and mantain than a Su35 and has the same number of hardpoints and same weight carrying capacity as that of a fully loaded F16Blk52 rest you can speculate yourself

Yes it would be similar to F-16 blk52. Hence it is not desired.

What PAF wants is something to counter Rafales and also to a point be stealth enough to penetrate deep inside Indian defences. Which Mig-35's fail to address. PAF larger goal is towards stealth aircraft hence it is paramount to have a capable engine that can power the future projects. RD93 engines are good but they can not be used on future stealth aircraft.

With these points reconsider Mig-35.

 

[Muhammad Omar]

Coming Soon Eurofighter Typhoon

Coming Soon When after 20 years?

 

[Mentee]

no just forget su35 for two main reasons

1. Indian lobby will never let that happen plus its a nightmare to mantain them even with new engines

2. JF17 already uses the same engine as Mig29 which also are almost half the price as Su35

last but not the least Mig29 has the same load carrying capacity as F16s plus it has every thing from long range radars , HMDS , HOBS ,IRST'and a very good combat range so to fullfill all the requirements of PAF

@Max don't know why folks get jealous of our grocery purchases -----we are Indian cats we wont let it happen-----chacha g if you don't mind can we have some Russian chocolates

 

[Zain Malik]

Coming Soon When after 20 years?

No after about 20 months.....!!

 

[volatile]

well after 39 pages of discussion can we know about the expected date or month of the deal??

Who and Why this thread was started other than spending time in Ramzan

 

[[Bregs]]

well after 39 pages of discussion can we know about the expected date or month of the deal??

well bro still far better then india's 12 yrs old mrca deal

 

[GURU DUTT]

Yes it would be similar to F-16 blk52. Hence it is not desired.

What PAF wants is something to counter Rafales and also to a point be stealth enough to penetrate deep inside Indian defences. Which Mig-35's fail to address. PAF larger goal is towards stealth aircraft hence it is paramount to have a capable engine that can power the future projects. RD93 engines are good but they can not be used on future stealth aircraft.

With these points reconsider Mig-35.

you are forgetting the much much bigger combat radius (750+Km of Mig29 on internal fuel only) as against 500 Km of Blk52 that too with CFT and all those AESA radar and AESA based EW-ECM suites and HMDS-HOBS and two internal IRST sensors

as for RD93 isnt the same engine used in testing going on for J31 ?

 

[Muhammad Omar]

well bro still far better then india's 12 yrs old mrca deal

And tejas finally being inducted after 32 Years...

Just take it as a joke please

Who and Why this thread was started other than spending time in Ramzan

well Most of the Mods and elite members said that Haris Khan is a reliable Source