A NEW AIRCRAFT FOR PAF

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Jet engines are not offensive platforms... Helis?? you mean Mi 35 ?? we donated few to Afghanistan...

Nah .. Jet engine power offensive weapons though.

You donated vintage mi-24 variants from the early 70s to Afghanistan .. Pak is buying the latest Mi-35M (E) variant produced in 2005.

 

[danger007]

Nah .. Jet engine power offensive weapons though.

You donated vintage mi-25 variants from the 80s to Afghanistan .. Pak is buying the latest Mi-35M (E) variant produced in 2005.

Indian Mi 35 upgraded..
Since when engine become weapon???

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Indian Mi 35 upgraded..

Yeah and Pak upgraded the AHIs.. Don't mean they reach the same level as the Viper..

Since when engine become weapon???

That's the core component of a Fukin fighter jet..

Fighter jets bombs stuff.. That makes then offensive weapons..

Apart from that Russia is offering MI-28s and SAMs which they also marketed at ideas 2015..

Apart from offering rifles for G-3 replacement among other stuff..

 

[ConcealCarry]

Yep, they are used in toys and probably that is why Indians were cribbing and crying with Russia to stop their sales to Paksitan

Jet engines are not offensive platforms... Helis?? you mean Mi 35 ?? we donated few to Afghanistan...

 

[danger007]

Yeah and Pak upgraded the AHIs.. Don't mean they reach the same level as the Viper..



That's the core component of a Fukin fighter jet..

Fighter jets bombs stuff.. That makes then offensive weapons..

Apart from that Russia is offering MI-28s and SAMs which they also marketed at ideas 2015..

Apart from offering rifles for G-3 replacement among other stuff..

weird logic.. lol..

 

[Mav3rick]

And why would or should we wait untill India does something we have our own policy for Modernization, they can fly the elephant for all we care

Quite frankly because we are not stupid and would rather save money for mature 5th gen platform then to waste on 4th/4++ gen especially if India does not induct any new technology. You do realize that our Air Force is entirely India centric, right?

 

[PaklovesTurkiye]

India lobbying is beyond pakistan reach at the given date ... china have opportunity to bargain when it comes to support systems but offensive platforms like Su 35???? just because you guys getting Mi-35 and jet engines doesn't mean you goy more influence than India in kremlin..



Hence the relations with Pakistan while being independent in nature will never have any designs against India. Islamabad is a very important player in joint efforts to maintain regional stability, especially in view of the deteriorating situation in Afghanistan and growing threats of international terrorism fuelled by ISIS and rampant drug production. These factors require collective counteraction and target-oriented capacity building. And these are exactly the reasons for our recent arrangements with Islamabad on the supply of four Mi-35 helicopters. I would also like to respond to the idle talk and pure invention of the media by reiterating that Russia has not discussed and does not have any plans to sell Su-35 aircraft to Pakistan.


http://in.rbth.com/economics/cooperation/2015/09/28/ties-with-pakistan-not-against-india_443441

Time is cruel, buddy. Relations evolve and nothing stalls....

 

[Arsalan]

Technically the SAM systems like STAR WARS project can potentially take out satellite systems of enemy countries provided they can be tracked effectively.

STAR WARS project?
It is 2016 now!
Anyway, you missed a critical part of the post dear, here i have highlighted that for you now:

frankly,, NONE!
Todays SAM systems have made using altitude as means of escape difficult if not impossible, but you knew that.

Surely there are even anti-Satellite missiles out there as well so they sure can reach high flying planes too. The point here is how practical that will be in a war scenario. Thus the statement "difficult if not impossible". Let us keep the discussion to things that will be practically feasible.

In the way of distraction and confusion it could work however not to the full extent.

to full extent? What you mean by that? Nothing will be effective to full extent. There are anti-stealth technology, specially radars already on the table. Also EW jamming have some key advantages over stealth and that must not be ignored either.

This seems to be a more appropriate option. However for this to materialise Russia would have to consider if they are unable to sell SU-35's to Pakistan because of local demands. That would pave way for the engine to be exported through China and also keep a blind eye on J-16 (Flanker Restriction Deal).

Long shot!
Plus i didn't even mentioned JH7 for PAF We were just discussion the aircraft capabilities. I am not the one who will want PAF to buy everything that fly! Will like to keep things realistic.

 

[GURU DUTT]

1) You do what ever you like...Russia only wants Money for that they are going to give what ever Pakistan wants.

2) Russia is pissed at USA because they have taken the Arab market. IRAQ getting F-16's. Libya would get Rafales. Syria is a nightmare.

3) India in the lap of USA is not helping the Russians and they are vary that PAK-FA technology would be handed to USA making it redundant for Russia.

4) Russia did not like India going to Red Flag and showing all the features that SU-30 MKI has because it gave the US enough knowledge on how to improve their aircraft.

5) NATO expansion has put them in dire need of money and for this they would even give their technology free because it would still give the Russians work experience and revive their economy.

Now take the Indian lobby and dance on your Bollywood tunes.

1.russia sure wants but money but can you provide it like india or china does to russia its all about scale and who offers more and consistent buisness in the end hope you get it sir

2.russia may be pissed of but why will it let its golden egg laying goose like india go just to have a little ego boost against arch rival USA ?

3.no india is not in a lap of USA rather in long term buisness agreement and we are not egtting anything for free from USA so why will USA or for that matter russia go against india and do you think a nation making and operating 3types of stealth fighters for more than two decades which is at pinnacle of technology would engage india for same technical inputs ... this idea of yours can only be termed as stupid and idiotic but still congrats for it

4.Russia knows MKI is using israeli, french and even some US tech in MKI and USA can take more inputs from there manufacturers than we could ever provide think about it

5. no one gives there tech for free unless they get something out of it same goes for russia , USA or any of there allyies stop dreaming sir

as for indian lobby well what has happenned in short time is just tip of the ice berg lots more to come good luck

PAF will only go For Mig-29/35 if it offer significant boost over F-16 block-52+ and J-10C, although negotiations are for Su-35 since sometimes which Pakistani defence minister and Russian official leaks to media, even Shahid Masood said when F-16 talks collapsed that government people are working to get kickbacks in fighter jet deal with Russia if deal goes through. PAF might be negotiating with multiple vendors to get best deal but hope it didn't went like M2K deal in Zardar era of 90s.

please sir dont take word of people like so called Dr shahid masood the TV host too serously as for Mig29/35 well its the best answer for all PAF needs just keep watching as things unfold as for M2K well if PAF can get them that should do its job for at least 15 more years till J31 comes

Why you Indian posters keep on giving such 'sincere' advice to us and keep pedalling Mig-29. It is a piece of Junk..

It has absolutely embarrassing range of a fighter, will find it very hard beyond 200 km combat radius with a centreline tank if it really wants to fight and survive a dog fight. It is lousy when it comes to speed and acceleration, too energy depleting, with couple of hard turns against an F-16 it will be so slow that the pilot will be forced to say whatever prayers and tanter manter he needs for a bit of luck in such shit. Its RCS is like a sore to eyes on radar screen and you will be amazed how far even radar operators on radar stations are able to see it. F-16 has a RCS much below 3ms, low enough that IAF's legs tremble when even they hear of an order of 8 jets.

Thanks a lot, keep this junk. We are not interested..



Wow, you have lot of operational and tactical acumen, kudos...

By the way, it may be interesting to your that Swedish retired radar operators bragged about being able to detect Su-27s flying from their bases around St. petersburg which is about 700 km from their border and that radar they mentioned was also 1960s vintage. Su-30 MKI RCS unfortunately has not come down that much in RCS terms, I do not think that IAF will be stupid like you and will send its precious Su-30s MKIs to fly around in 500-600 km ranges opposite our coast. Surprise bounces is still a big reality in air..

who told you Mig29 has very short combat radius or is a slow and slouch kind of fighter and in its latest avatar has RCS value as that of a F16 Blk52 as for turn rate or dog fighting well it has one of the most matured HMDS & HOBS combo singe when even western nations were only devloping this tech now whats on it is at par with latest what any other advanced nation has to offer plus the fact its got not one but two Internal IRST one just ahaed of cockpit and one under belly which both are slaved to its radar and passive detection systems making it more deadly even when the radar is not switched on so in short its the best for you but as i said you have full right to disagree no need to call names or use abusive language

as for the later part sir i said yopu cant send your prime anty sub warfare planes like PR orions without any air escort cause they would be prime targets to IAFs & IN AFs MKIs and Mig29K as they are too big and slow and dont have any offensive or defensive missiles to counter air to air missiles to counter misslis of inidan fighters as for RCS well there are also passive and active jammers , EW -ECM systems on MI to blind or confuse your radars and missiles and carries almost twice the number of long range BVRs as any of your fighter even F-15s have huge RCS how many have been shot down in air to air combat ever wonderred why ?

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

Russian Diplomat said.. few months ago Russian official govt website mentioned.. no chance to sale Su 35 to pak..

That diplomat has to live in India.

Since when engine become weapon???

Since India mentioned Missile launched vehicles offensive.

STAR WARS project?

Intercept missile in outer space..

Surely there are even anti-Satellite missiles out there as well so they sure can reach high flying planes too. The point here is how practical that will be in a war scenario. Thus the statement "difficult if not impossible". Let us keep the discussion to things that will be practically feasible.

Sir, the point here was to address @MastanKhan question (below). Practicable or feasible in war time should be the last thing to discuss because in a war survival has to be safeguarded (Idealistically), however for a country like Pakistan expenses need to be minimum without compromising on use of element of surprise to shatter myth of invincibility.

Hi,

At what service ceiling do you think the survivability rate is higher?

to full extent?

Sir, I knew you know the answer hence just gave you the hint to keep others guessing.

Long shot!

True.
Capability wise you know it would become an asset. Keeping things realistic PAF has to some how find more F-16's ASAP.

 

[Arsalan]

That diplomat has to live in India.


Since India mentioned Missile launched vehicles offensive.


Intercept missile in outer space..
View attachment 313128


Sir, the point here was to address @MastanKhan question (below). Practicable or feasible in war time should be the last thing to discuss because in a war survival has to be safeguarded (Idealistically), however for a country like Pakistan expenses need to be minimum without compromising on use of element of surprise to shatter myth of invincibility.




Sir, I knew you know the answer hence just gave you the hint to keep others guessing.


True.
Capability wise you know it would become an asset. Keeping things realistic PAF has to some how find more F-16's ASAP.

frankly, i am not able to make sense out of this post. Cannot understand what exactly you are trying to say and why are you missing the simple post that i made, not sure if you were actually not able to understand the simple enough point i made or you are doing so purposely. Reasons unknown!

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

1.russia sure wants but money but can you provide it like india or china does to russia its all about scale and who offers more and consistent buisness in the end hope you get it sir

2.russia may be pissed of but why will it let its golden egg laying goose like india go just to have a little ego boost against arch rival USA ?

3.no india is not in a lap of USA rather in long term buisness agreement and we are not egtting anything for free from USA so why will USA or for that matter russia go against india and do you think a nation making and operating 3types of stealth fighters for more than two decades which is at pinnacle of technology would engage india for same technical inputs ... this idea of yours can only be termed as stupid and idiotic but still congrats for it

4.Russia knows MKI is using israeli, french and even some US tech in MKI and USA can take more inputs from there manufacturers than we could ever provide think about it

5. no one gives there tech for free unless they get something out of it same goes for russia , USA or any of there allyies stop dreaming sir

Honestly nothing would happen to USA only her Proxy India would be a looser in all this.
You know the proverb

Dhobhi ka kuta ghar ka na ghat ka...

By all this what has India achieved? Please for once think without being a patriot.

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

frankly, i am not able to make sense out of this post. Cannot understand what exactly you are trying to say and why are you missing the simple post that i made, not sure if you were actually not able to understand the simple enough point i made or you are doing so purposely. Reasons unknown!

Sir,

A question raised by Mastan Khan was
"At what service sealing the survivability rate is higher?"

SAM systems since the time STAR WARS was conceived in the 60's to intercept missiles and high level aircraft in outer space. At that time it was considered that Satellites should have some kind of missile or lazer that could be fire to intercept.

This would indicate that the survivability of aircraft was getting limited. In present day war situation Outer Space has been deemed to be a non weapons domain.

• "States shall not place nuclear weapons or other weapons of mass destruction in orbit or on celestial bodies or station them in outer space in any other manner;"

http://www.unoosa.org/oosa/en/ourwork/spacelaw/treaties/introouterspacetreaty.html

For this very reason most of the super powers along with the developed countries who could afford to manufacture missile capable of reaching Outer Space started working on having some for their own safe guards. Two or three countries have openly tested this system. They targeted their own old satellites that were meant to be brought back to the Earth where they would disintegrate while re-entering the Earths atmosphere due to friction.

These satellites were how ever destroyed by a missile in outer space. The UN-COPUOS objected to this by condemning it and saying that this increased the chance of Space Debris which could cause ore damage then the complete satellite.

Costs during War are based on many factors as you know, one can not say that it is wise not to do this and this technology should not be used. Hence in my post referred to the term "Idealistic".

Sir, where you quoted 'Full Extent?" I meant both EW and Stealth have certain advantages and disadvantages hence both systems can not be used to their potential due to technology of countering them has evolved at a faster rate than to the primary technology.

This is where you yourself reached. For this very reason I did not explain as I knew you would reach to where I was pointing.

I hope this post is more understandable...

 

[The SC]

Costwise, 40 SU-35 would cost HALF the price or less of that of 40 EFT..
MIG-35 can also be an option , but availability is after 2020..even less expensive than the SU-35

 

[Zain Malik]

Shah G Haris and Usman Shabir r two most inner guys .My guess is EF trench 3 as per Boota Shahib guess at PDF too .

After COAS visit to Germany EF seems to enter PAF service...