A Look at Indian Army's Main Battle Tanks

[danger007]

well he is right on one thing every thing that india makes indegenously is getting drawbacks and heavy delays May be they should have not thought of inventing/turning muslim foods with a Hindu twist Like Veg haleem and Veg Kofta if they would have followed the recipe and ate it and thanked god for it they would have been more successfull Like Your Neighbours that are making French souflay (agosta 90b) JFT(chicken lomein) alkhalid(Chicken Chowfun(flatnoodles) and countless others from turkey and other nations

they didnt try to convert it to VEg like how you do with Kebabs regular ones are turned into VEG

now in NYC they are even making VEG GYRo bhai Loggoon Khuch to khawf karoo

such waste ..... post from the sw member.... lol i pity @Oscar @WebMaster... how can you let this guy post in the forum.... always ranting on food etc.... hahahaha food is food.... don't try to say like, other than chinese no one allowed to eat chinese noodles blah blah..

 

[EAK]

such waste ..... post from the sw member.... lol i pity @Oscar @WebMaster... how can you let this guy post in the forum.... always ranting on food etc.... hahahaha food is food.... don't try to say like, other than chinese no one allowed to eat chinese noodles blah blah..

u wont get it u curry eaters...

 

[Storm Force]

Pak bros get reeally agitated wen they see arjun in full combat service

 

[Mike_Brando]

Pak bros get reeally agitated wen they see arjun in full combat service

unko mirchi lagi toh meh kya karun!

 

[Mian H Amin.]

good for you ... Pak armoured has same black uniform as yours

 

[scarcry]

expect they wear black for all the AKs to be destroyed

 

[Storm Force]

ARJUN IS POURING OFF INDIAN PRODDUCTION LINES

AND IT LOOK AWESOME

 

[Keshav Murali]

Flaws of Arjun:

1. Main sight weakspot - General armour of front turret is estimated at 735 mm but area behind weakspot is rated at only 400 mm of armour by Western Analysts.

2. Side Turret armour placement - 30 degree Safe Manoeuvring angles are safe but beyond that, composites are weak and at least 2 empty tool boxes are there instead of armour. First block of armour is rated at 300 mm+ comparable to Western tanks but area behind tool boxes is a pitiful 60 mm.

3. Main gun - The biggest mistake was going for a rifled weapon. While Arjun's gun is comparable in strength to smoothbore weapons, the barrel wears out much quicker. However, the gun has potential for an extreme 800 mm long rod penetrators to be used.

Solutions:

Problem 1. Arjun Mk-II has already solved a part of the problem by adding NERA and thicker Kanchan plate after main sight.

Problem 2. Tool boxes can be removed and composite filler added - NERA might be placed OVER tool boxes.

Problem 3. Is bound to be solved in FMBT. (Arjun MK-III) DRDO has stated that smoothbore 120 mm weapon development has begun and rifled gun is bound to be replaced.

Otherwise license for Rh 120 L/44 or L/55 or even Rh NPzK 140 L/48 license can be purchased. Possibility of Ukrainian "Vitiaz" 125 which is superior to 2A46M and "Bageera" much superior to L/55 are also on the table - Ukraine has offered to sell 6TDF series 1500 HP and 1800 HP in development engines for Arjun and T-90MS tanks - if such trade offer is accepted, there is possibility of purchase of Ukrainian armament.

Flaws of Al-Khalid

1. ERA coverage: As in tanks of Chinese origin, ERA coverage over glacis is close to 70%. There is 40-50% possibility of 3BM42 Mango rounds used by T-90 and ARDE 120 round penetrating glacis if area without ERA is hit.

Since Indian T-90MS has Russian T-90A modifications, longer rounds such as 3BM42M Lekalo, 3BM59/60 Svinets-1/2 which may be supplied to India in the future have assured penetrations. Also able to penetrate glacis is Ukrainian 125 mm round "Vityaz" AP which is rumoured to have 750 mm penetration.

2. Roof armour: A moderate portion of roof armour slopes onto frontal turret armour in Chinese designs Type 90-II, 85-II and 96. Al-Khalid has also been observed with this flaw. In Soviet and Chinese school of tank design, roof armour is paltry, sometimes a mere 50 mm. As such, Al-Khalid is in risk of being penetrated frontally by even BMP-1's 73 mm and BMP-II's 2A42. Only Type 99A2 has been observed WITHOUT this flaw.

3. Side turret armour placement: In Soviet school of design, the turret was small and well angled but had poor protection on the sides which would not be exposed frontally. In Chinese school of design, the turret was larger and resembled Western turrets but had Soviet style armour placement - worst of both worlds. The side turret armour of T-90 itself is rated at only 140 mm without ERA. Al-Khalid seems to have similar placement to Type 85 and 90 which is to say poor. This flaw has been partially fixed by Chinese in Type-99A2 by uparmouring sides slightly and adding heavy ERA.

Solutions:

Problem 1. Simple, increase ERA blocks and rethink placement of the blocks.

Problem 2. Complete redesign of turret is required to remove this problem. Partially fixed by Pakistani designers by adding more ERA to the sloped part.

Problem 3. Redesign of turret - but weight will increase by one or two tons which may require redesigning of suspension.

The only clear advantage of Al-Khalid over Arjun is smoothbore weapon.

The only clear advantage of Arjun is hydrogas suspension which reduces weight of tanks by 1 or 2 tons compared to torsion bar.
Torsion bar provides comparable cushioning to hydrogas but must weight much more.

Arjun MK-III is perceived to receive 120 mm or 140 mm smoothbore weapon with 700+ mm penetrating rounds. DRDO has stated that development of 650 mm penetrating APFSDS round for old rifled gun itself is complete. Pakistan must change armour placements on hull and redesign turret to prevent frontal penetration.

As of now, both Arjun and Al-Khalid cannot penetrate each other frontally from other than above-mentioned weakspots.

Perhaps Al-Khalid-2 will receive long rod penetrators and hydrogas suspension to evenly match future Arjun.

It needs to become more interesting

Generally saying, Arjun has more potential for upgrades without turret redesign. It is expected that Chinese designers who are rectifying problems in their tanks will help Pakistan in design of future Al-Khalid variants.

The sub-continent is getting competitive.

I hope this cleared it all up.

Regards,
Keshav

 

[littleboy]

I think the arjun tank is becoming a world class beast. arjun was having delay and problems, arjun mark2 is up to the line but weight is greater . let's see what surprises are we going to see in arjun mark 3. whatever world says but our tank is getting better. I bet after t-90 ,we would we self sufficient in tank production.

 

[Keshav Murali]

I think the arjun tank is becoming a world class beast. arjun was having delay and problems, arjun mark2 is up to the line but weight is greater . let's see what surprises are we going to see in arjun mark 3. whatever world says but our tank is getting better. I bet after t-90 ,we would we self sufficient in tank production.

The Arjun MK-II will be, at best comparable to Leo 2A5. Not impressive but enough. Weight of Arjun MK-II is lesser than Abrams, Chally and Leo. The weight of 67 tons is given in short tons. In comparison, M1A2SEP weighs 69.5 short tons.

And ground pressure is lower than T-72!

Arjun is improving but so are its competitors.

I wouldn't be so sure that we will become self-sufficient so quickly. Americans and Russians are giants of the industry with nearly 85 years experience and even they aren't completely self sufficient.

For example, M1A2SEP uses modified German gun, Israeli ERA and highly modified British Armour. T-90AM which is best version uses French imaging equipment and French FCS.

 

[littleboy]

^^^^ yes you are right may 7 yrs should be enough. until 2020.But remember we are frog jumping many many technologies.

 

[li0nheart]

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Flaws of Al-Khalid

1. ERA coverage: As in tanks of Chinese origin, ERA coverage over glacis is close to 70%. There is 40-50% possibility of 3BM42 Mango rounds used by T-90 and ARDE 120 round penetrating glacis if area without ERA is hit.

Since Indian T-90MS has Russian T-90A modifications, longer rounds such as 3BM42M Lekalo, 3BM59/60 Svinets-1/2 which may be supplied to India in the future have assured penetrations. Also able to penetrate glacis is Ukrainian 125 mm round "Vityaz" AP which is rumoured to have 750 mm penetration.

2. Roof armour: A moderate portion of roof armour slopes onto frontal turret armour in Chinese designs Type 90-II, 85-II and 96. Al-Khalid has also been observed with this flaw. In Soviet and Chinese school of tank design, roof armour is paltry, sometimes a mere 50 mm. As such, Al-Khalid is in risk of being penetrated frontally by even BMP-1's 73 mm and BMP-II's 2A42. Only Type 99A2 has been observed WITHOUT this flaw.

3. Side turret armour placement: In Soviet school of design, the turret was small and well angled but had poor protection on the sides which would not be exposed frontally. In Chinese school of design, the turret was larger and resembled Western turrets but had Soviet style armour placement - worst of both worlds. The side turret armour of T-90 itself is rated at only 140 mm without ERA. Al-Khalid seems to have similar placement to Type 85 and 90 which is to say poor. This flaw has been partially fixed by Chinese in Type-99A2 by uparmouring sides slightly and adding heavy ERA.

Solutions:

Problem 1. Simple, increase ERA blocks and rethink placement of the blocks.

Problem 2. Complete redesign of turret is required to remove this problem. Partially fixed by Pakistani designers by adding more ERA to the sloped part.

Problem 3. Redesign of turret - but weight will increase by one or two tons which may require redesigning of suspension.

The only clear advantage of Al-Khalid over Arjun is smoothbore weapon.

The only clear advantage of Arjun is hydrogas suspension which reduces weight of tanks by 1 or 2 tons compared to torsion bar.
Torsion bar provides comparable cushioning to hydrogas but must weight much more.

Arjun MK-III is perceived to receive 120 mm or 140 mm smoothbore weapon with 700+ mm penetrating rounds. DRDO has stated that development of 650 mm penetrating APFSDS round for old rifled gun itself is complete. Pakistan must change armour placements on hull and redesign turret to prevent frontal penetration.

As of now, both Arjun and Al-Khalid cannot penetrate each other frontally from other than above-mentioned weakspots.

Perhaps Al-Khalid-2 will receive long rod penetrators and hydrogas suspension to evenly match future Arjun.

It needs to become more interesting

Generally saying, Arjun has more potential for upgrades without turret redesign. It is expected that Chinese designers who are rectifying problems in their tanks will help Pakistan in design of future Al-Khalid variants.

The sub-continent is getting competitive.

I hope this cleared it all up.

Regards,
Keshav

And the claims debunked... for more info:

https://www.google.com/url?q=http:/...ds-cse&usg=AFQjCNEuS82TSDzPKMl0S5pbQA0OOxGfUA

 

[Storm Force]

TO MY PAKISTANI FRIENDS

Your open hostility TO THE AWESOME LOOKING arjun tank smacks of real ENVY & JEALOUSLY.

Arjun represents the HEAVEY ARNMOURED REGIMENTS OF THE INDIAN MILITARY MACHINE

124 IN SERVICE & 124 more mk1 ORDERED.

MK2 in final trails with 55 improvements before 249 more mk2 arjun ordered.

ARJUN COSTS 50% more than T90 and twice wat the much smaller lighter ALKHALIDS costs.

but we have twice the TANK

ARJUN is the indian armies very own LEOPARD or ABRAHAMS type tank

GET USED TO IT GUYS INDIAN WILL FIELD 500+ by 2020

 

[Keshav Murali]

And the claims debunked... for more info:

I could've explained better with photos. I can't post links or photos as of yet

moderator, a little help here?

I need photos to clearly explain the flaws of Al-Khalid and the solutions. Can you enable link and photo posting for me?