A Delay In MMRCA Is Not a Blessings For Pakistan Air Force

[batmannow]

you just prooved your just another teen age hub bul watan pakistani kid .... good luck

& you were proving yourself a jealous over aged ,Indian who is too up set ,on his country's madness ?lolzz

you just prooved your just another teen age hub bul watan pakistani kid .... good luck

& you were proving yourself a jealous over aged ,Indian who is too up set ,on his country's madness ?lolzz

pak going for su-35, impossible.
if they can, they would have bought j-11 from china.cheaper than su-35.

Oh sure why not a toy instead ?lolzz

First of all our blessings come from ALLAH .. second we are not in compare match game with IAF talking about blame games isn't going to do shit but what is how PAF can change to save us simply . Just watch and see what will happen in the next few years to come rather then thinking negative and blaming this and that ... crying doesn't do shit actions and steps do everything.

Hi, Charlie !
Hey , we are Gona rock , that beast in skies , I mean SU-35S .
Me , @MastanKhan shb , & few others all of us were up for twin engines & long distance air battle ships & I'm so happy its happening .
All love to you , keep flying !

 

[Eagle Claw]

Hi,

Many a people people and professionals are of the feeling that the delay in the mmrca deal has given paf some breathing room to decide what they want to get and many of them think that the delay is good for Pakistan.

To the contrary---the delay in mmrca deal is a successful sabotage on the procurement of an aircraft by the Pakistan air force by the indian planners.

Even though Iaf may have lesser numbers---it still has a higher number of potent aircraft in its fleet to face the challenge and take the battle into the house of the enemy.

The lack of mmrca does not hurt india---but rather strengthen its position---because paf has blundered into not making the procurement of an air superiority fighter that they desperately need and waiting for the finalization of mmrca to see which direction they want to go.

If the paf had gone with the J10B's in 2012 as it was offered with a complete package out of existing stock by the Chinese----paf would have been by now 2 / 3rds of the way into integrating that aircraft into the existing system and getting their pilots upto date on that machine.

But no---paf decided to chase the 8 ball---and in the process it got way behind of its target of achieving some kind of parity on the air superiority front.

Paf used to be a pro-active air force---but in the last many years---it has become more of a reactive air force---. Instead of leading from the front---it is waiting to be lead and guided into what direction that it needs to go----it is like a cow lost in a pasture.

Who knows better than the paf that if its funds are not spent in a timely manner---they will be used in other places by someone else.

Seems like there is a lack of leadership in the air force in the top brass---a lack of focus---a lack of direction and a will to take charge and do something.

@MastanKhan bro you always say the words of My Tongue !
Hats off !
What we can't express even we try to do, we can't.
You express it in a Very Sophisticated,in a very Gentle and perfect way.
Salute !

 

[MastanKhan]

@MastanKhan My Friend You are turning into that girlfriend who moans about one thing everyday but with Different words

You mean to say like Caitlyn Jenner------!!!!!

MK, sir, this is third or fourth thread you have started just on your gut instinct.
On the current subject, do you really think that those sitting in PAF HQ, are so incompetent that they need us, the armchair generals to give them direction. iiii
On the contrary, i believe the PAF has called the Indian bluff.....imagine three years earlier, when the MMRCA deal was finalised for supposedly 126 Rafales, say there was a knee jerk reaction from the PAF, three years down the line, what would have been consequences except paying for something through the nose to counter something which is not even anywhere on the horizon. In essence PAF leadership has come out on top by sticking to it's guns for first replacing the vulnerable aircraft with more capable JF-17 to give the air force some depth and potent capability. I posted the news in 2010 through a very reliable source that PAF has no plans to induct the J-10 in the immediate future as it's hands were full with JF-17 programme.
It's also worth noting that the fleet available to PAF is kept at maximum operational level, no point acquiring a platform, a depressing percentage of which remains grounded due to snags.

Windjammer,

My man---the proof is in the pudding---regardless of what I write or what they claim at the HQ----. It has been 14 years and no air superiority fighter----.

Nations destiny is not built on calling someone's bluff---you may call the bluff 3 times---and if it does not work o the 4th time----.

Just because the air force's hands are filled up with the JF 17 program---does not mean the threat would dissipate.

PAF is sacrificing the integrity of Pakistan for the JF 17----the reason---it is their pet project---and they don't want egg on their face if it is a failure----or if it does not progress----.

Basically---JF 17 is to save the ego of paf----and nothing more---. It is not the need of the STATE OF PAKISTAN at this time---even though it is a great aircraft on its own merit----. It is an excellent complimentary aircraft----.

 

[Last Samuri]

I think I understand where Mastankhan is coming from with this thread.

By 2019 THE IAF fleet will be 50% SU30MKI ie 270= FIGHTERS IN 15 sqds

This means the backbone and most numerous fighter in the IAF is far superior to the PAFS new inducted homegrown fighter.

OF THE remaining 270 FIGHTERS in 2019

36 RAFALE again the tip of IAF hi tech fighter no contest Thunder in trouble gain.

THAT LEAVES

Mirage2000-5 WITH mica bvr & RCS 400 RADAR AND NEW HMD again superior French tech to the Thunder

MIG29SMT 60 planes versis Thunder .... Again the upgraded MIG29SMT with twin engines is a deadly air combat plane with greater speed and agility then THUNDER

The only planes that Thunder can go into a dog fight and have better than 50/50 CHANCE TO WIN WILKL BE

40 Tejas mk1
80 Jaguar Darins

Oit of a fleet of 550 planes ( Amuch reduced in size IAF )

This is why mastan khan has opened this thread

PAF needs additional 75-100 TOP END air superiority FIGHTERS

Either F16./52
su35s
J10B

IF NOT BY 2020 IAF will take out PAF in three days and he knows this is the case

 

[war&peace]

PAF does not need to do anything but to look for advanced radars and electronic suites (measures, counter measures, jamming pods etc.) from the West for JF-17 and that too only if the Chinese ones are not just at the top of the line. These JF-17's need to be ready to counter the MKIs and Super MKIs.......we shouldn't rely on the F-16's too much.

I am the biggest proponent of indigenisation and we should keep improving JF-17 and it should never be slowed down. But the current situation requires that PAF should opt for a composite approach consisting of the indigenous aircraft system development and acquisition of handful of the latest available aircrafts to counter the enemy in any eventuality especially while the mad dog murdoodi and his fanatical junta in power in india and I think india has gone the radical way and won't return until it learns the hard way.

Also along with upgrading the JF-17, we need to start planning for new aircrafts right from the drawing board to meet multi-faceted challenges in the future and for various roles. There is no single aircraft in the world that can do all jobs perfectly despite carrying the prefix/suffix of multi-role. Every airframe has limitations, a long range strategic bomber/fighter like F-15 may not be as good a dog-fighter as an F-16. Thus diversifying the aircraft inventory of PAF is a must. Sticking to JF-17 will make PAF defensive at best while we need a powerful and dynamic airforce that can deliver the punch to the enemy in case of any eventuality.

 

[Black Richi Rich]

the fact of the mater is the F-16 is a better fighter then the JF-17 and J-10, the F-16 is a proven machine, the J-10 and JF-17 are completely unknown commodities neither of them has been battle tested, the PAF enjoys using the F-16s to bomb hideouts in waziristan, they don't use the JF-17 due to its short comings (not enough payload not enough range), the chinese have never developed a battle tested 4th generation fighter, buying the J-10 might have backfired in there face

 

[I M Sikander]

You mean to say like Caitlyn Jenner------!!!!!




Windjammer,

My man---the proof is in the pudding---regardless of what I write or what they claim at the HQ----. It has been 14 years and no air superiority fighter----.

Nations destiny is not built on calling someone's bluff---you may call the bluff 3 times---and if it does not work o the 4th time----.

Just because the air force's hands are filled up with the JF 17 program---does not mean the threat would dissipate.

PAF is sacrificing the integrity of Pakistan for the JF 17----the reason---it is their pet project---and they don't want egg on their face if it is a failure----or if it does not progress----.

Basically---JF 17 is to save the ego of paf----and nothing more---. It is not the need of the STATE OF PAKISTAN at this time---even though it is a great aircraft on its own merit----. It is an excellent complimentary aircraft----.

I simply dont agree.

Jf17 is a huge blessing for paf. Except f16, the new and MLU ones, rest of paf jets are 1960-70 machines. They are nothing but junk. Just have a look at the specs of all paf work horses they are shit.

Paf is rightly replacing those 1960-70 era jets with a 4 gen, bvr capable jet in extremely low price.

Thunder will be the work horse in future and f sola and any new jet in paf inventory will take the role of supreme machines.

Paf doesnt have 7 to 8 billion dollar resources to buy just 2
Squadrons of jets like euro fighter, rafale etc.

So they are rightly inducting thunders in large numbers and constantly upgrading them.

 

[I M Sikander]

the fact of the mater is the F-16 is a better fighter then the JF-17 and J-10, the F-16 is a proven machine, the J-10 and JF-17 are completely unknown commodities neither of them has been battle tested, the PAF enjoys using the F-16s to bomb hideouts in waziristan, they don't use the JF-17 due to its short comings (not enough payload not enough range), the chinese have never developed a battle tested 4th generation fighter, buying the J-10 might have backfired in there face

Off course f sola are proven war toys but then they shouldnt be compared to thunders.

The price difference is huge between thunders and F sola.

We cant induct f16 in big numbers. Secondly f16 even the block 52 are of no compariain to jets like rafale and euro fighter.

Its all about money, we all want state of the art fighter jets in huge numbers in paf but sorry guyz we simply cant afford them.

And frankly speaking, paf has less confidence in chinese high tech jets. They will only buy chinese jets like J10B, J31 , J20 etc if they are left with no option due to financial constraints.

 

[MastanKhan]

I simply dont agree.

Jf17 is a huge blessing for paf. Except f16, the new and MLU ones, rest of paf jets are 1960-70 machines. They are nothing but junk. Just have a look at the specs of all paf work horses they are shit.

Paf is rightly replacing those 1960-70 era jets with a 4 gen, bvr capable jet in extremely low price.

Thunder will be the work horse in future and f sola and any new jet in paf inventory will take the role of supreme machines.

Paf doesnt have 7 to 8 billion dollar resources to buy just 2
Squadrons of jets like euro fighter, rafale etc.

So they are rightly inducting thunders in large numbers and constantly upgrading them.

Hi,

When we are discussing the aesthetics of a design or a portrait or whatsoever----disagreement is fine----. But this is a defense matter---.

Bring out the technical issues why you disagree---it is not an I don't believe it kind of answer that I am asking form----.

 

[jaibi]

@Zarvan , these policies rarely have simple ramifications. A whole matrix needs to be calculated by both the buyer and the seller. So, I'm afraid it would take quite some time for fruit to bear from this tangled tree.

 

[AtiF Malang]

F35 is one the most advanced 5th gen aircraft out there----. Other than the F22---there is nothing to match it---regardless of what you read and what you have heard ----.

Anyway my question is----- just because something is a copy ---does it mean that it does not kill or what is it?

If J31 exceed in performance still it cannot over take the 4++ gen jets due to RAM coating and alot of other maintenance need by 5th gen jet
We need a Pakistani like Joogad which i saw in the form of keeping a Mehran and BMW at the same time by many Riches in Islamabad .
Mehran is the work horse as less cheap and easy maintenance . Almost 80% job are done via Mehran . Where as BMW is used only for special tasks .
4++ is the analogous to Mehran . All the jobs will be done by the readily available and less maintenance free jet .
look at USA they give up idea of larger number of Raptor because it is impossible to maintain and make it available in large numbers . F35 is the peanuts for NATO.
Better we try to be realistic before its too late.

@MastanKhan My Friend You are turning into that girlfriend who moans about one thing everyday but with Different words
How Much All of you wish @Zarvan dont see it happening
@Horus Yes It Will give a huge boost To Pakistan But How about Whos side will Russia Support If somehow Pakistan and India engages , In War Time This will be Nightmare for PAF unless you wana See Kargil Thing Happening Again with PAF

Pakistan had planned 2025 But Problem Was their were no funds so instead of Just Sitting Around They kick started their own project And We have a capable fighter in less than decade

It has evolved so much in so less time and will keep Doing that Just Give it a time, Best thing Now to do is Changing the ageing Fleet of F7s and Mirage By Just Doing that With Block 2 or 3 of thunder You Will have a twice capable Force Ready ,with no problem in funds , spears , and Best Thing No sanctions And Deploy Any kind of weapon You Like with just modification

Sukhoi or Other Bird Will Take for induction and money which Will Slow down thunder its development and induction No matter What anyone Says I Hope Paf Stands behind Thunder and Support it Try to speed up the project

When Paf has changed all its old crafts to Thunder it will also give Paf room ( confidence) to experiment and deploy different Systems

Regarding Spares if China also buy Su35 we can utilize their stock and may be they reverse engineer also .

 

[MastanKhan]

@Zarvan , these policies rarely have simple ramifications. A whole matrix needs to be calculated by both the buyer and the seller. So, I'm afraid it would take quite some time for fruit to bear from this tangled tree.

Hi,

Here is the Think Tank chairman people-----Not a single original thread started own his on for 1 year and 2 months----.

One started yesterday after a hiatus of one year is a paste and copy of someone else article ----.

Son----if you have an iota of shame in you---you resign from your position and end this farceful Think Tank group.

@jaibi the truth is and I swear to Allah----I had not seen a post from you for so long that I thought that we had gotten rid of you---or maybe you left on your own.

I now I see your miserable self attached to this board like a blood sucker---doing no constructive work and just attached---what a shame----a true Pakistani in form.

 

[Bossman]

Hi,

Here is the Think Tank chairman people-----Not a single original thread started on his on for 1 year and 2 months----.

One started yesterday after a hiatus of one year is a paste and copy of someone else article ----.

Son----if you have an iota of shame in you---you resign from your position and end this farceful Think Tank group.

@jaibi the truth is and I swear to Allah----I had not seen a post from you for so long that I thought that we had gotten rid of you---or maybe you left on your own.

I now I see your miserable self attached to this board like a blood sucker---doing no constructive work and just attached---what a shame----a true Pakistani in form.

You are back to your old habit of putting down others. Don't take yourself and this forum too seriously. Every time you post a so called "original" thread you simply embarrass yourself.

 

[Black Richi Rich]

to answer the OPs original question the J-10 brings nothing to the PAF that the existing F-16s dont bring, if the J-10 was such a spectacular aircraft why haven't any major countries expressed interest in buying it? the answer is, is that chinese technology is completely unproven, china has spent decades reverse engineering russian fighter jets, the J-10 was based off a rejected israeli experiment, The J-10 represents the first 4th generaton fighter the chinese have made which isn't a copy of russian tech, theres way too much risk jumping onboard the J-10 program. by inducting the J-10 and JF-17 you basically are inducting 2 unproven fighter jets, i would rather go for F-16s any day of the week. And I read a report which claimed that china pitted there J-10s against the J-11, whenever the J-11 used there ECM they outperformed and scored a high kill ratio vs the J-10.

 

[Zarvan]

to answer the OPs original question the J-10 brings nothing to the PAF that the existing F-16s dont bring, if the J-10 was such a spectacular aircraft why haven't any major countries expressed interest in buying it? the answer is, is that chinese technology is completely unproven, china has spent decades reverse engineering russian fighter jets, the J-10 was based off a rejected israeli experiment, The J-10 represents the first 4th generaton fighter the chinese have made which isn't a copy of russian tech, theres way too much risk jumping onboard the J-10 program. by inducting the J-10 and JF-17 you basically are inducting 2 unproven fighter jets, i would rather go for F-16s any day of the week. And I read a report which claimed that china pitted there J-10s against the J-11, whenever the J-11 used there ECM they outperformed and scored a high kill ratio vs the J-10.

No country has expresses in J-10 because China hasn't offered to any country. J-10 B gives a lot from AESA to BVR and even HOBS technology. All reports are most lie but as J-11 D is claimed to be equvilant of SU-35 I prefer J-11 D