A Delay In MMRCA Is Not a Blessings For Pakistan Air Force

[Goenitz]

@Tipu7 i forgot to mention that suring 67, actually US assured of no Isreal preemptive strike. Egyption believed that.. Thanx God kiyani didn't believe when Molan was convincing to go after Haqqani, while india was eager to fight.. Then Pak conducted Azm e nau to tell who the real enemy is (plus largest scale exercise in pak history)

 

[Zarvan]

@MastanKhan My Friend You are turning into that girlfriend who moans about one thing everyday but with Different words
How Much All of @Zarvan Wish its Not happening
@Horus Yes It Will give a huge boost To Pakistan But How about Whos side will Russia Support If somehow Pakistan and India engages , In War Time This will be Nightmare for PAF unless you wana See Kargil Thing Happening Again with PAF

Pakistan had planned 2025 But Problem Was their were no funds so instead of Just Sitting Around They kick started their own project And We have a capable fighter in less than decade

It has evolved so much in so less time and will keep Doing that Just Give it a time, Best thing Now to do is Changing the ageing Fleet of F7s and Mirage By Just Doing that With Block 2 or 3 of thunder You Will have a twice capable Force Ready ,with no problem in funds , spears , and Best Thing No sanctions And Deploy Any kind of weapon You Like with just modification

Sukhoi or Other Bird Will Take for induction and money which Will Slow down thunder its development and induction No matter What anyone Says I Hope Paf Stands behind Thunder and Support it Try to speed up the project

When Paf has changed all its old crafts to Thunder it will also give Paf room ( confidence) to experiment and deploy different Systems

Sorry it's time to change plans and change the course, because right now we are heading towards a wall in 150 mile per hour speed in other words headed for suicide. If some PAF follows this forum I hope they wake up go for SU-35 at least 3 squadrons and if economy improves in next 10 years that too massively than squadrons of SU-35 should be doubled. @MastanKhan @jaibi

 

[GURU DUTT]

@MastanKhan sir i always beleved i was a good troller but i guess you are the best PDF has ever produced

you know very well that given the current and future developments at the most its gonna be couple of squads of J-10Bs and a squad of J-31for PAF and thats it so first you made a thread about defnsive and offensive doctroine and now this .... clever guy

 

[Darth Vader]

Sorry it's time to change plans and change the course, because right now we are heading towards a wall in 150 mile per hour speed in other words headed for suicide. If some PAF follows this forum I hope they wake up go for SU-35 at least 3 squadrons and if economy improves in next 10 years that too massively than squadrons of SU-35 should be doubled. @MastanKhan @jaibi

O bhai its not simple nor easy to just go and shop a jet and You Put it in the hands of Baby to Fly its RC bird
Even If Pakistan wills to buy this bird you wont see it operational ASAP even that will take few years , So instead wasiting time and money they are using a sensible option thunder

 

[Zarvan]

O bhai its not simple nor easy to just go and shop a jet and You Put it in the hands of Baby to Fly its RC bird
Even If Pakistan wills to buy this bird you wont see it operational ASAP even that will take few years , So instead wasiting time and money they are using a sensible option thunder

Thunder is great option but not enough yes I know we need a whole set up but first step has to be taken and if they take first step now we can soon induct and operate large number of Jets like SU-35

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

Hi,

Many a people people and professionals are of the feeling that the delay in the mmrca deal has given paf some breathing room to decide what they want to get and many of them think that the delay is good for Pakistan.

To the contrary---the delay in mmrca deal is a successful sabotage on the procurement of an aircraft by the Pakistan air force by the indian planners.

Even though Iaf may have lesser numbers---it still has a higher number of potent aircraft in its fleet to face the challenge and take the battle into the house of the enemy.

The lack of mmrca does not hurt india---but rather strengthen its position---because paf has blundered into not making the procurement of an air superiority fighter that they desperately need and waiting for the finalization of mmrca to see which direction they want to go.

If the paf had gone with the J10B's in 2012 as it was offered with a complete package out of existing stock by the Chinese----paf would have been by now 2 / 3rds of the way into integrating that aircraft into the existing system and getting their pilots upto date on that machine.

But no---paf decided to chase the 8 ball---and in the process it got way behind of its target of achieving some kind of parity on the air superiority front.

Paf used to be a pro-active air force---but in the last many years---it has become more of a reactive air force---. Instead of leading from the front---it is waiting to be lead and guided into what direction that it needs to go----it is like a cow lost in a pasture.

Who knows better than the paf that if its funds are not spent in a timely manner---they will be used in other places by someone else.

Seems like there is a lack of leadership in the air force in the top brass---a lack of focus---a lack of direction and a will to take charge and do something.

Sir,
Pakistan was under US sanctions. PAF did have a chance to get the J-10 but this was not allowed by Israel. That was the reason China had to offer PAF J10 B but this aircraft was in its design phase where as JF-17 was about to finish flight testing. Hence the conclusion is simple to procure an aircraft that is almost ready to commence production.

Pakistan also had shortage of funds due to various reason that you are well aware of.

@jaibi For love of GOD tell PAF to either go for SU-35 or J-11 D. 5th Generation won't come in next 10 years we need a third 4.5th Generation platform like SU-35 or J-11 D at least 3 squadrons other wise we are heading towards a disaster @MastanKhan

Sir, you have been advocating a lot about J11D were as this aircraft is not suited for naval roles. The aircraft that is well suited is the J-15 because they operate from aircraft carriers. PN should be looking towards these as China plans to position one of her Aircraft carrier at Gawadar.

 

[Zarvan]

Sir,
Pakistan was under US sanctions. PAF did have a chance to get the J-10 but this was not allowed by Israel. That was the reason China had to offer PAF J10 B but this aircraft was in its design phase where as JF-17 was about to finish flight testing. Hence the conclusion is simple to procure an aircraft that is almost ready to commence production.

Pakistan also had shortage of funds due to various reason that you are well aware of.


Sir, you have been advocating a lot about J11D were as this aircraft is not suited for naval roles. The aircraft that is well suited is the J-15 because they operate from aircraft carriers. PN should be looking towards these as China plans to position one of her Aircraft carrier at Gawadar.

I don't support J-11D or SU-35 for Naval role for me these should be used for defending Pakistan Air Space and send some gifts inside India

 

[Super Falcon]

Forgeg J 20 and J 31 it needs 15 years to come but no gurantee with current paf think tank

Today war is all about air superiority
Multi role platforms work after air superiority achieved

If you look when ever war broke both F 15 along F 16 worked well
F 15 has clear object to clear skies than rdmain F 16 clear

Today F 22 SU 35 T50 J 11
first go to enemy traitoty

paf planners are nuts this waitting game only lead us to biggest disaster which we cant handle

Our PAF is neither better in quality or number in both areas we lack big time

Paf is one dimensional force even school kid can plan how to destroy them

Easy passage to planers and they also lack high alltitude long range SAM system

paf procurment is mind bogling they buy stuff of same configuration if we had SPADA why bought same class SAM from china

They waste money on same crap

J 10 was bought in 2006 mushy era when we ordered 70 odd f 16 and than we ask for 36 and end up getting 18 due to PAF had J 10 in mind and in 2015 no J 10 but J 20 but whdn time come PAF will say we need bettef jet than J 20 lets wait or no funds

They are busy in bussinesses of FAZAIYA project their main focus on building homes not saving pride if nation

And dont tell me funds are issue becoz when they decide to buy J 10 it means they had funds but now these fynds they put in building fazaiya

O bhai its not simple nor easy to just go and shop a jet and You Put it in the hands of Baby to Fly its RC bird
Even If Pakistan wills to buy this bird you wont see it operational ASAP even that will take few years , So instead wasiting time and money they are using a sensible option thunder

Bhai with this mentality why we bought thunder it also took few years to operational these type of arguments are not construvmctive uf we put theze things we cant buy anything on fear of it needs operationak 3 years if we agree with u till 2099 we keep F 16 and thunder because we fear the new jet takes time why buy it

Get out of MENTAL BLOCK

 

[Darth Vader]

Bhai with this mentality why we bought thunder it also took few years to operational these type of arguments are not construvmctive uf we put theze things we cant buy anything on fear of it needs operationak 3 years if we agree with u till 2099 we keep F 16 and thunder because we fear the new jet takes time why buy it

Get out of MENTAL BLOCK

Em Not Saying That No one Should Buy Anything because it Takes time , but Buy when You can afford it , when you have funds available , Now Funds are going for thunder They are keeping two projects 1 Block 3 and Induction and upgrading block 1 to block 2 so i dont think they have that much cash in hand to go on and start buying expensive jets

 

[$@rJen]

No one was victorious in 73 war, but it was Egyptians who gained most.
Israel suffered heavily in 73 war.

Really??? where di you learn such a Gems????

Israel lost around 2800 soilders becasue it was a surprise attack... you know Egypt lost between 10000-15000, Syria 3-5k soilders Iraq and Jorden lost around 300 soldiers. and All most all of the Egyptian and Syrian tanks were destroyed not to mentioned the planes.. Israel took back Egypt's Suez canal and Syria's Golan Heights... There was no other option for Sadaat but to beg for Ceasefire and finally agree for peace with Israel in exchange Israel gave back Suez canal. while Syria agreed only for ceasefire not peace so Israel controls Golan. Israel was the clear victor in all the Israeli-Arab wars... why are you denying that while Arabs accept their loss

 

[CHI RULES]

I thk thats a rather unfair assessment on our airforce.
It has allowed us to upgrade all out fleet to JF-17 level while the enemy level stays the same in the short term.
I rather like having hundreds of JF-17 rather a squadron of air superiority jets which will be rather ineffective and sparingly used bcuz of their price.
First priority shd be overall JF-17 fleet.
Plus it shd be noted this saves alot of money in terms of maintenence which would be used on mirages, f-7ps etc. economics of scale on JF-17 maintenance

both have different roles any layman can tell you

 

[SpArK]

On this day 13 th of September it has been revealed that "what we all thought as a policy failure, political indecision, lack of willpower, uncertain planning, time lagged proceedings on governmental level, lack of negotiation, mixed up priorities and lack of international leverages over a deal;" was actually a strategic move by Indian policy planners.

Thanks a lot Mastan Bhai.

 

[Windjammer]

MK, sir, this is third or fourth thread you have started just on your gut instinct.
On the current subject, do you really think that those sitting in PAF HQ, are so incompetent that they need us, the armchair generals to give them direction. iiii
On the contrary, i believe the PAF has called the Indian bluff.....imagine three years earlier, when the MMRCA deal was finalised for supposedly 126 Rafales, say there was a knee jerk reaction from the PAF, three years down the line, what would have been consequences except paying for something through the nose to counter something which is not even anywhere on the horizon. In essence PAF leadership has come out on top by sticking to it's guns for first replacing the vulnerable aircraft with more capable JF-17 to give the air force some depth and potent capability. I posted the news in 2010 through a very reliable source that PAF has no plans to induct the J-10 in the immediate future as it's hands were full with JF-17 programme.
It's also worth noting that the fleet available to PAF is kept at maximum operational level, no point acquiring a platform, a depressing percentage of which remains grounded due to snags.

 

[CHI RULES]

Forgeg J 20 and J 31 it needs 15 years to come but no gurantee with current paf think tank

Today war is all about air superiority
Multi role platforms work after air superiority achieved

If you look when ever war broke both F 15 along F 16 worked well
F 15 has clear object to clear skies than rdmain F 16 clear

Today F 22 SU 35 T50 J 11
first go to enemy traitoty

paf planners are nuts this waitting game only lead us to biggest disaster which we cant handle

Our PAF is neither better in quality or number in both areas we lack big time

Paf is one dimensional force even school kid can plan how to destroy them

Easy passage to planers and they also lack high alltitude long range SAM system

paf procurment is mind bogling they buy stuff of same configuration if we had SPADA why bought same class SAM from china

They waste money on same crap

J 10 was bought in 2006 mushy era when we ordered 70 odd f 16 and than we ask for 36 and end up getting 18 due to PAF had J 10 in mind and in 2015 no J 10 but J 20 but whdn time come PAF will say we need bettef jet than J 20 lets wait or no funds

They are busy in bussinesses of FAZAIYA project their main focus on building homes not saving pride if nation

And dont tell me funds are issue becoz when they decide to buy J 10 it means they had funds but now these fynds they put in building fazaiya


Bhai with this mentality why we bought thunder it also took few years to operational these type of arguments are not construvmctive uf we put theze things we cant buy anything on fear of it needs operationak 3 years if we agree with u till 2099 we keep F 16 and thunder because we fear the new jet takes time why buy it

Get out of MENTAL BLOCK

why u think FAZAIYA project is useless it is much better to have such projects to facilitate PAF officers. Further if u will not facilitate stake holders u can't get desired results. U may see such projects in many civil organizations like Wapda and Railways. Even their is a scheme for Federal Employees in Isl. They should also be stopped. People who are shedding their lives especially by flying in vintage coffin like Jets i.e Mirrages and occasionally F7Ps deserve more facilities.

U should check Indian Armed forces first our direct rival than give such negative comments.

We as whole should stick to topic in discussion may prove to be beneficial for our nation.

 

[RazorMC]

I agree with @MastanKhan

PAF needs air superiority fighters and tactical bombers to keep IAF on the edge. We are relying too much on a single aircraft to do everything for us. It's unsustainable and will keep us on the backfoot at all times.