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A deal on Kashmir is both easy and impossible

Musharraf's offer of "peace" is a betrayal of the sacrifices made to liberate Kashmir both by the people of Pakistan and Kashmir, and it runs against what Pakistan stands for.

This is the issue a large mas in pakistan wouold agree with what Aryan is saying. That being the case, if we agree to Mushraffs "pathbreaking plan" and agree for a jtly adminstered kashmir, there is no guarantee that Pakistan will honour its commitment. Mushraff can go easily as he came. So how can India be sure?

"We shall have India divided or we shall have India destroyed" - Quaid-e-Azam

Who is Quaid-e-Azam..?:rolleyes:
 
You just dont get it do you? India's aim was never to finish Pakistan, neither do they want any 'Akhand Bharat'. They just want to be far far from Pakistan as they are sick and tired of it. India has not initiated wars against Pakistan, it is always Pakistan which tries to attack India. India never even bought more modern weapons until Pakistan acquired them, as the money was needed badly elsewhere vis-a-vis its social welfare programs, economy, education, etc,etc. Only now are they changing that.
or without nukes, India has always accepted Pakistan's existance. Get that through your head. Its just that everyone in Pakistan thinks that now that Pakistan has nukes, it can destroy India. I hope you are not harbouring hte same delusions..

Get this into that skull of yours,:wall: India strategic plan was to break up pakistan and make it part of india.
Pakistan will never accept indian hegomeny in asia and counter any aggresive move by india.
Your delusion of destroying pakistan has been crushed by pakistan nukes so now you have to accept pakistan with no choice.
Bad luck you had your chance before the 80's but its gone now.


Right...we are not debating history. When i say they are of Chinese origin or N.K origin, i mean they are COPIES of the Chinese/North Korean VERSIONS of the missiles originally invented by Germany. Clearer?? The Shaheen i think(i forge the name) is a copy of the No-Dong missile for eg...

So indian woke up one day and dreamed up the idea of missiles did he?:disagree:



LCA=Induction by 2010.
N-LCA(Naval version) will be used on the Indian Aircraft Carrier(IAC) which is the third Aircraft Carrier of the IN, already under construction, expected to join by 2012.
Arjun MBT-124 tanks to be inducted. Def Min has already said.
ATV(nuke sub)= Reactor complete, is critical.

Arjun has already been ordered to be inducted in the Army, 124 tanks are being inducted initially, as there is no more capacity in Avadi factories and the Army wants time to adapt to the new type of machine. Understand that Arjun is on a different concept than the AK which again i will add is Chinese with minor Pakistani systems and touted as indegenous.

The ATV's mini nuclear reactor has already gone critical. Its a success, it is working well. The IN has said in media reports, that the country can now build its own nuclear subs, but they are of strategic nature and thus the govt has to decide whether to manufacture them now or not. ITs a huge breakthrough in Indian engineering. The mini reactor was made in India completely.

is making those technology herself btw, getting foreign help at places which are proving too difficult. When it undertook the taask, it did not have the manpower or the infrastructure. I dont think tht is the case anymore.
LCA when you hear the specs will be frightened. Its an awsome plane. It will be inducted before 2010. If you hear the specs you will be amazed, India has developed on its own, systems that Pakistan does not even have on its imported planes.....

You talking about old soviet technology that that indians have tinkered about with and think its some sort of world class cutting edge military technology.
If your that good why are you buying nuclear reactors from the americans and planes from the russians.



You shell in India, India would shell Pakistan, loc or no loc.......

I dont think so.


You cannot just dismiss teh arty systems, its very very important, India has much superior artillary. Along with MBRL's like Smerch already acquired. And with army having just conducted the tests for the new tender for new and improved arty systems. Bofors has won, it is owned by BAe. Previously owned by a Swedish company.It beat out the Israeli Soltam systems......

WOW am i supposed to be impressed


Reported to have. India has captured countless terrorists and killed countless more and none of them had any.So i think its safe to say that they dont have any sphisticated devices. They do however have satellite fones. But nothing other than that. Night vision/Thermal devices are a far cry for them....

You where convinced earlier that the freedom fighters has no night vision until the link i posted but your claims into doubt.
Convince yourself that the freedom fighters have vision/Thermal devices it makes there job easier.



Who says the 'world' wants a soln to Kashmir. They want a solution that it remains with India. Which country has put pressure on INDIA to solve the Kashmir problem, its always on Pakistan. Musharraf constantly going in various countries and harping on Kashmir and STILL no effect.....

Fool yourself its okay.



Pakistan is a smaller country, tht is not an excuse for not winning any wars if you initiate them...


Are you talking about india not winning against pakistan?


Please dont say these childish things used to boost morale. Who says that Americans cannot fight as well as any other countries citizens. The only thing is that the Americans never fight for their homeland, so the generals cannot rely on soldiers will power, etc, etc to fight better, so it is better to fight from a position of advantage. When you take the war to them, they will fight just as fiercely. They would be just as patriotic....


My entire point in a nutshell.
When was the last time the american fought on there own land?
The reason why the americans nearly walways get beat is that they are invading others.

Military shud not run the country??

No its not an excuse, its a fact. That fact has nowever become history. And i am willing to debate on anything whether it be fighter planes or MBT's. India now has the qualitative edge it never had.

The proof will be in the pudding.
 
Get this into that skull of yours,:wall: India strategic plan was to break up pakistan and make it part of india.
Pakistan will never accept indian hegomeny in asia and counter any aggresive move by india.
Your delusion of destroying pakistan has been crushed by pakistan nukes so now you have to accept pakistan with no choice.
Bad luck you had your chance before the 80's but its gone now.
Well...get it through your head that India has indeed successfully divided Pakistan. It never wanted to capture Pakistani territory. It was indeed to break up Pakistan in 1970's. That we did. It was not a plan before then and has not been since then. You on the other hand, delude yourself that we want Pakistan to be merged in India. And the nukes are no solution. They just act as a detterrent, the Pakistani esablishment knows that it cannot use them. Their use would imply anhilation of Pakistan.

So indian woke up one day and dreamed up the idea of missiles did he?:disagree:
No, they researched and developed its technology over decades. It was not like the Nodong missiles bought and renamed.

You talking about old soviet technology that that indians have tinkered about with and think its some sort of world class cutting edge military technology.
If your that good why are you buying nuclear reactors from the americans and planes from the russians.
Get your information. This speas volumes about your knowledge. India has MANY MANY Russian reactors. And incidentally there was a deal when Putin came here for 4 MORE reactors a couple of days back. Apart from that,2 earlier built reactors of 100MW have almost finished being constructed.

I dont think so.
Doesnt matter.

WOW am i supposed to be impressed
Yes you are. You said artillary, then lets compare artillary. How will you win any wars against India if you cant compete in basic things like arty systems. The Indian artillary system what it has currently and what is being acquired immediately is head and shoulders above what Pakistan has now and plans to acquire in the future.

You where convinced earlier that the freedom fighters has no night vision until the link i posted but your claims into doubt.
Convince yourself that the freedom fighters have vision/Thermal devices it makes there job easier.
Yeh, and i still say that, perhaps you didnt read my post carefully. It says that night vision devices, etc a far cry for terrorists.

Fool yourself its okay.
I am simply telling you the facts. Believe them or not, its your call.

Are you talking about india not winning against pakistan?
No, i am talking about Pakistan invading India every time and still not gaining any single thing apart from losing their army, airforce and navy.

My entire point in a nutshell.
When was the last time the american fought on there own land?
The reason why the americans nearly walways get beat is that they are invading others.
Well then...maybe Pakistan should take a lesson from them, as it always invades India and not the other way round.

Military shud not run the country??
Yes, it should not. Do you doubt my statement?

The proof will be in the pudding.
And the pudding is there for all to see. Arjun is being inducted. LCA's development is not yet complete. So we cannot say.
 
‘Pakistan won’t accept a solution Kashmiris don’t’​

Sunday, January 28, 2007

ISLAMABAD: President Pervez Musharraf has assured the All Parties Hurriyat Conference that Pakistan will not agree to a solution of the Kashmir issue that is unacceptable to the Kashmiri people and their leaders, nni reports.

He was talking to a three-member APHC delegation led by its chairman Mirwaiz Umer Farooq in Rawalpindi on Saturday.

Musharraf told the APC delegation about the efforts Pakistan was making for the resolution of the Kashmir dispute in line with the aspirations of the Kashmiri people. He reaffirmed Pakistan’s support for the Kashmir cause and praised the APHC for its efforts in this regard. Farooq thanked the president for Pakistan’s support and welcomed his proposals for the resolution of the issue.

APHC supports Musharraf’s proposals: Mirwaiz Umer Farooq said that the Kashmiri leaders fully support the four-point agenda of President General Pervez Musharraf for the resolution of the Kashmir issue. He urged the Indian government to respond positively to Musharraf’s proposals for the solution of the issue. He was talking to reports at the Allama Iqbal International Airport in Lahore before leaving for Dehli after a 10-day visit to Pakistan. He said the APHC also supported the ongoing negotiations between Pakistan and India. staff report
http://www.pakistanlink.com/Headlines/Jan07/28/10.htm
 
You test my patience Ahsan.
Please ban him now mods.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: my my, what has the world come to. indian coming to a Pakistani forum and asking for a Pakistani to get banned. there are a lot more indians that are good candidates to get banned, but haven't been yet.
 
A typical bhangee way to defend themselves. Since they can't defend themselves in the original topic, the use those old pathetic ways.
Your vocabulary surely impresses me. You give a fine demonstration of your background and upbringing. Congratulations.
 
Your vocabulary surely impresses me. You give a fine demonstration of your background and upbringing. Congratulations.

Thanks:tup: Instead of doing something about my original post, this is what we get. Exactly what I was talking about. Proved my point.
 
A typical bhangee way to defend themselves. Since they can't defend themselves in the original topic, the use those old pathetic ways.

What has happened to you ? I guess you were not like this before you went on your long leave from the forum.
 

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