A Chinese spring?

[fly2012]

A Chinese spring !?

CMOOOOOOOOOOON

People may get confused with "Chinese Spring Roll".

 

[fly2012]

Its not about development buddy, its about rights, citizens' rights!

What's the definition of rights? Freedom means a lot of things, including economic freedom, social freedom, political freedom etc etc. Compared to "democracy" countries, the only right a Chinese doesn't have is to elect their leaders, which I personally don't care about anyway. I work in a huge company whose head is not elected either.

A lot of people who's never been to China always bring up crap like "In China you cannot say anything against governement otherwise you are shot/imprisoned". In the past, I used to tell them it is far from the truth. Now I don't even bother. Let foolish people fool themselves.

For anyone says that China needs "basic right", I suggest that you re-read the ariticle Op posted. As bonus point, please watch the video I posted a few posts later.

 

[Korean]

What's the definition of rights? Freedom means a lot of things, including economic freedom, social freedom, political freedom etc etc. Compared to "democracy" countries, the only right a Chinese doesn't have is to elect their leaders,

The rights that Chinese citizens don't have.

- Right to have more than 1 baby.
- Right to move to another region for residency. "Migrant workers" are illegal in their own country and don't receive pension, health care, and education benefits.
- Right to criticize political leaders and the communist party.
- Right to demand democracy.
- Right to own land(You can buy the 70 year usage right, which can be taken away whenever the local communist party feels like it)
- Right of a religious freedom. This applies to Falun Gong, Tibetan Buddhism, and Roman Catholicism.
- Right to make time travel movies and TV dramas.
- Right to vote in a talent contest TV show like Supergirl.(Voting is not allowed, whether it is for public officials or talent show contestants).
- Right to protest.
- Right to due legal process.
- Right to type Liu Xiaobo on the Weibo or text messages.
- Right to discuss Tienanmen Square of 1989.
- Right to recreate the Goddess of Democracy.

 

[The bridge]

Citizens' rights means nothing when you and your child go hungry to bed, when the education system sucks big time and therefore your child will have less chance to escape the vicious cycle of poverty.


See Maslow's hierarchy of needs:

You don't require Maslow's pyramid to understand human needs. And things are not that bad in India as you have made out. Even the US have people going without medical insurance. We have hospitals and doctors considered amongst the best in the world, infact, medical tourism has fast gained entry to India especially from Europe, We are producing more engineers than we actually require, We are the third highest internet user in the world, we have the one of the largest railway network in the world, We have world class infrastructure for IT and many more.

The question, however, remains, how the poor people benefiting from it?
I don't find answer in adopting Chinese model. But things have definitely changed in India since independence and it will continue. As I have said earlier, we just need good leaders and responsible voters.

The rights that Chinese citizens don't have.

- Right to have more than 1 baby.
- Right to move to another region for residency. "Migrant workers" are illegal in their own country and don't receive pension, health care, and education benefits.
- Right to criticize political leaders and the communist party.
- Right to demand democracy.
- Right to own land(You can buy the 70 year usage right, which can be taken away whenever the local communist party feels like it)
- Right of a religious freedom. This applies to Falun Gong, Tibetan Buddhism, and Roman Catholicism.
- Right to make time travel movies and TV dramas.
- Right to vote in a talent contest TV show like Supergirl.(Voting is not allowed, whether it is for public officials or talent show contestants).
- Right to protest.
- Right to due legal process.
- Right to type Liu Xiaobo on the Weibo or text messages.
- Right to discuss Tienanmen Square of 1989.
- Right to recreate the Goddess of Democracy.

Its an eye opener if all of it is true!

 

[gpit]

if u cant enjoy the democratic rights enjoyed by all the countries much superior to CHina like US, Europeans, Indians then at least accept that China needs to change and will have democracy in time. Hiding information is the work of ccp. We Indians dont believe in CENSORING media like you guys.


sorry u failed to create any impact. keep posting that again.

Did I say China doesn’t need change? Didn’t I said China is an evil system?

Stop engineering a consensus! That’s too low.

The country you are in is also a flourished democracy and you being there tells a lot about your view whether you bring it out or not buddy..........

Irony it is. You are living in oldest democracy in the world. Isnt it

Right, friends.

This is how you need the kind of education that your democracy elites won’t allow you to enjoy. That's truly irony!

My upbringings bestow upon me a gift called “critical thinking”.

My country has a flourishing democracy because our founders and subsequent leaders knew exactly when a democracy must be limited, citizens’ freedom be limited, education be expanded, wealth be accumulated (though pretty urgly in today's standard). They also knew exactly how the democracy cannot be rampant, but gradually extended: from only for white male property owner to former slaves, to women.

In stark contrast, your people are indulged in euphoria of democracy, simply because your former master was powerful and is a democracy. Dude, a healthy democracy is never hunky-dory stuff. People have to be well prepared for it. It can never be copy/pasted. You simply don’t have the social soil to support a healthy democracy. A social system without a matching social soil is a joke. Of course social soil can be changed. But social soil change takes centuries to realize, needing efforts of the well educated, materially established mass for generations and generations.

Even with a relatively healthy democracy, we the sane people still criticize democracy fundamentalists on daily basis, in an attempt to keep it healthy, very much unlike your hunky-dory bunch.

LOL! That’s how American democracy is far better than yours. That's why Indian are among the top illegal immigrants in US: they flee your stinky democracy, embrace our (relatively) good democracy.

Get it real!

 

[gpit]

Agreed, democracy is not key to the development. India needs better leaders and even better voters. Still Indians have the power in the system to throw out the govt after their term is over or even earlier.

Where in the Chinese model of governance you find this kind of freedom. Today the top hierarchy of CPC might be working wonders for China, tomorrow if somebody like Hitler or Saddam Hussain comes to power then what optioin do the Chinese have...

And the corruption is known issue in cpc..

Tell us, aren’t those bad guys in power your throw out this election precisely were the good guys you threw in last election a few years ago?

The ridiculous thinking here is that election can be hunky-dory solution to your problems.

No, no, no! Don’t comprehend or otherwise degrade democracy simply as revolving a door.

Revolving door is only revolving a door. It will not automatically solve you problems.

BTW, you are right that CPC knows corruption is an issue. That is why hundreds CPC leaders get prosecuted every year. How does your democratic India treat the corrupted officials? Why do you elect criminal reside about 30% seats in your parliament?

Don't tell me democracy works that way!

 

[Götterdämmerung]

You don't require Maslow's pyramid to understand human needs. And things are not that bad in India as you have made out. Even the US have people going without medical insurance. We have hospitals and doctors considered amongst the best in the world, infact, medical tourism has fast gained entry to India especially from Europe, We are producing more engineers than we actually require, We are the third highest internet user in the world, we have the one of the largest railway network in the world, We have world class infrastructure for IT and many more.

The question, however, remains, how the poor people benefiting from it?
I don't find answer in adopting Chinese model. But things have definitely changed in India since independence and it will continue. As I have said earlier, we just need good leaders and responsible voters.

Too bad that you got banned, but for the other deluded Indians my answer could be enlightening.

So, one doesn't need the Maslow pyramide to understand human needs and yet you as well as most of your countrymen/women put the pyramide upside down.

I never questioned that India does have good doctors, but does the slum dwellers have access to them or are they only the rich and wealthy foreigners? Don't you think it's shamefull that foreigners come to your country to get good medical treatments while a few streets further children are dying from the most simple deseases? You have more engineers than you need because your economy is pathetic and cannot absorb them. Your internet per capita penetatration is pathetically low und looks big due to the size of your population. Your rail system is a death trap and your IT infrastructure relies completely from foreign technology and they are only available in a few cities.

For the last 60 odd years, you have been in need of good leaders and responsible voters, but as long as the first for stages of Maslow's pyramide are not fulfilled, there won't be many responsible voters and your bad leaders will abuse this condition.

 

[Juice]

What access, I'm traveling to Guangzhou once every 2 weeks and am traveling through China on my super motorbike. I'm welcomed and enjoyed everywhere I go. As long as I pay I can eat in the best restaurant and stay in 5 star hotels. you know what a 5 star hotel is, do you not? The place where the maid brings your breakfast at 5PM local time with the latest edition of Wall Street Journal Asian Edition. If I don't feel like riding my bike I can fly to Xian and have someone transport my bike there. BTW I also am stay in the 5 star hotel that owns by the same chain.

I don't know what freedom is in your interpretation however I though I am free, perhaps I'm wrong. Am I?

I would be suprised nif any 5-star hotels exist in China, will consult the michelin guide.

Too bad that you got banned, but for the other deluded Indians my answer could be enlightening.

So, one doesn't need the Maslow pyramide to understand human needs and yet you as well as most of your countrymen/women put the pyramide upside down.

I never questioned that India does have good doctors, but does the slum dwellers have access to them or are they only the rich and wealthy foreigners? Don't you think it's shamefull that foreigners come to your country to get good medical treatments while a few streets further children are dying from the most simple deseases? You have more engineers than you need because your economy is pathetic and cannot absorb them. Your internet per capita penetatration is pathetically low und looks big due to the size of your population. Your rail system is a death trap and your IT infrastructure relies completely from foreign technology and they are only available in a few cities.

For the last 60 odd years, you have been in need of good leaders and responsible voters, but as long as the first for stages of Maslow's pyramide are not fulfilled, there won't be many responsible voters and your bad leaders will abuse this condition.

Pakistanis calling Indians slum dwellers always amuses me. Is Pakistan so wealthy?

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

I've tried to be nice to Indians since I've returned but its turning out quite hard to do.

You know, if Indians were not so defensive and always have a loser ghetto mentality, maybe they'd be less hated.

 

[Götterdämmerung]

I would be suprised nif any 5-star hotels exist in China, will consult the michelin guide.

Pakistanis calling Indians slum dwellers always amuses me. Is Pakistan so wealthy?

The Guide Michelin only give stars to restaurants and three stars is the maximum. Hotel stars are mostly given by national hotel associations (in Germany it's DEHOGA) or international associations like "The Leading Hotels of the World".

How am I Pakistani? I have only been to Karachi once in a stop-over, but that was 30 years ago. Germany is ****** rich, indeed.

 

[clmeta]

Hindi Chini bhai bhai.

indians are verbally defecating everywhere as usual

 

[gpit]

The rights that Chinese citizens don't have.

- Right to have more than 1 baby.
- Right to move to another region for residency. "Migrant workers" are illegal in their own country and don't receive pension, health care, and education benefits.
- Right to criticize political leaders and the communist party.
- Right to demand democracy.
- Right to own land(You can buy the 70 year usage right, which can be taken away whenever the local communist party feels like it)
- Right of a religious freedom. This applies to Falun Gong, Tibetan Buddhism, and Roman Catholicism.
- Right to make time travel movies and TV dramas.
- Right to vote in a talent contest TV show like Supergirl.(Voting is not allowed, whether it is for public officials or talent show contestants).
- Right to protest.
- Right to due legal process.
- Right to type Liu Xiaobo on the Weibo or text messages.
- Right to discuss Tienanmen Square of 1989.
- Right to recreate the Goddess of Democracy.

Interestingly, perhaps just due to what you enumerated above that actually causes a then poorer China now decades ahead of India.

PRC established in 1949. India got independent in 1947. They were roughly the same time.

In the beginning, India had better school system, better railway systems, better manufacture, twice the GDP of China, similar life expectancy and illiteracy.

Now China has 5 times the GDP of India. Starvation, illiteracy, life expectancy,… India lags behind China in almost every aspect.

You judge, "Korean".

 

[gpit]

...

How am I Pakistani? I have only been to Karachi once in a stop-over, but that was 30 years ago. Germany is ****** rich, indeed.

Hahahahaha!

You know the fun of internet is that you will experience all sorts of extraterrestrial events.

I was called the following:

1) A Pakistani lives in US.
2) A Chinese communist.
3) A Chinese lives in Pakistan.
4) A Pakistani turned Chinese communist.
5) All sorts of conceivable permutation from the above.

 

[canadian icehole]

What access, I'm traveling to Guangzhou once every 2 weeks and am traveling through China on my super motorbike. I'm welcomed and enjoyed everywhere I go. As long as I pay I can eat in the best restaurant and stay in 5 star hotels. you know what a 5 star hotel is, do you not? The place where the maid brings your breakfast at 5PM local time with the latest edition of Wall Street Journal Asian Edition. If I don't feel like riding my bike I can fly to Xian and have someone transport my bike there. BTW I also am stay in the 5 star hotel that owns by the same chain.

I don't know what freedom is in your interpretation however I though I am free, perhaps I'm wrong. Am I?

What's your ride? Are there any good twisty roads?

People may get confused with "Chinese Spring Roll".

Bastard! Now I'm hungry again...

indians are verbally defecating everywhere as usual

Why are you so quiet?

 

[terranMarine]

I'm waiting for the EU spring to explode rather the Chinese spring. Strong EU economies cannot continue to bail out problem countries and many citizens are fed up with tax money going to Greece. Even Spain is now asking for help lets not forget Portugal and Italy too.