A Bangladeshi engineer who helps build F-35 fighter jets

[Raider 21]

@JamD taking our "it's a shame..." mantra...it's a shame we don't have an Airbus or Boeing equivalent in the Muslim countries to absorb this labour.

Even if we can't keep them within specific countries, it would be nice if we could channel the talent to create ITAR-free products for Bangladesh, Turkey, Indonesia, Pakistan, etc (and manufacture from those lands via a collective consortium).

I just can't imagine how much collective talent (across BD, Iran, Pak, etc) we're losing, and how much more we're not leveraging (e.g., in South Africa, Brazil, Ukraine, etc) with the copious amounts of hydrocarbon wealth.

It is indeed unfortunate at times. I was talking to an American-Pakistani, he was a flight test engineer on the E/A-18G Growlers. It is very hard to get a position if the clearance parameters are not met.

 

[Bilal9]

So I said in my post: "there must be 10,000 engineers worked on F-35 project"

was deleted with the reason "why so much hate"

I am sure this must be a BD enforcer on PDF, when does saying truth becomes hate??

Dude, I would have said the same if this was about a Pakistani because I feel this very insulting for a country to celebrate such a minute achievement, such as things like my country went down on poverty index from 120 to 119....This childish mentality will get us no where.

To my knowledge - there is no BD enforcer on PDF.

Yes but



Europe had to become friends with each other for Airbus. This is what our part of the world looks like:
View attachment 722249

All partners at Airbus (all reputed national manufacturers in Spain, UK, Germany and France), who manufacture sub assemblies and components, are risk-sharing partners. The "close enough coordination" needed for JIT operations for assembly in Toulouse are gargantuan and severe (especially for large items like wings, tails and engines) using Beluga aircraft. Try THAT one - on for size, in our scenario. Dilli door ast.

I will post a video on A350 assembly I saw on Netflix. If I can find it. You guys will understand the scale and complexity of what goes on.

But before reaching for the moon and the stars, we need to consider much, much smaller commuter aircraft platforms.

Even a country like Indonesia, which has the most experience manufacturing ATR size aircraft, has problems selling these items outside their borders.

You need to see who will buy and the market forecasts, before making Billions of dollars in investments and other technical factors. How many South American and African countries have bought any thing other than smaller fighter jets and helis from Pakistan and India? Not many.

 

[Bilal9]

 

[aziqbal]

one man did not build the F35

anyway well done

 

[Indos]

To my knowledge - there is no BD enforcer on PDF.


All partners at Airbus (all reputed national manufacturers in Spain, UK, Germany and France), who manufacture sub assemblies and components, are risk-sharing partners. The "close enough coordination" needed for JIT operations for assembly in Toulouse are gargantuan and severe (especially for large items like wings, tails and engines) using Beluga aircraft. Try THAT one - on for size, in our scenario. Dilli door ast.

I will post a video on A350 assembly I saw on Netflix. If I can find it. You guys will understand the scale and complexity of what goes on.

But before reaching for the moon and the stars, we need to consider much, much smaller commuter aircraft platforms.

Even a country like Indonesia, which has the most experience manufacturing ATR size aircraft, has problems selling these items outside their borders.

You need to see who will buy and the market forecasts, before making Billions of dollars in investments and other technical factors. How many South American and African countries have bought any thing other than smaller fighter jets and helis from Pakistan and India? Not many.

Bro, I dont think your statement saying we had problem selling our plane outside our border is true, it is a military transport and not approriate for civilian plane. While those N 250 and N 2130 program are cancelled before the plane enter the market due to Asian Financial Crisis. N 219 hasnt entered market as well and currently pursuing production certification. CN 235 competitor is now C 295 which is its own variant developed by Airbus Defense alone.

CN 235 is the winner in its class and even has been used by US Air Force and US Coast Guard

 

[Indos]

CN 235 civil version just been developed recently by Indonesian Aerospace, but commercially it will be difficult to compete in the civilian market and for this it needs to be developed into more civilian friendly that make it need to have several modification. Meaningful modification of CN 235 is now pursuit by Indonesian Aerospace and the program name is N 245. N245 program is planned to start this year.

PT. Dirgantara Indonesia (Persero)

www.indonesian-aerospace.com

 

[Bilal9]

Bro, I dont think your statement saying we had problem selling our plane outside our border is true, it is a military transport and not approriate for civilian plane. While those N 250 and N 2130 program are cancelled before the plane enter the market due to Asian Financial Crisis. N 219 hasnt entered market as well and currently pursuing production certification. CN 235 competitor is now C 295 which is its own variant developed by Airbus Defense alone.

CN 235 is the winner in its class and even has been used by US Air Force and US Coast Guard

View attachment 722426
View attachment 722427

My apologies for the confusion and misunderstanding brother. I was referring to the CN235 size airplane, but only passenger versions of these size turboprops. Military version (joint venture of Dirgantara along with CASA - in CN235, the C is for CASA and N for Nurtanio/Dirgantara) is selling very well - as we all know.

C295 stretched military version was developed later by Airbus as you said from CN235 design.

Even as a EU country, Spain had to sell CASA to Airbus to keep its employees employed. Making passenger airplanes can be mastered, but selling them is a tough proposition. Look at Boeing with 737 Max.

Developing and selling passenger planes from non-EU or US/Canada countries is even more difficult, as a lot of politics, regulatory and other factors play into it. The barriers to entry are extremely high.

Even China is having issues selling its MA 700 turboprop aircraft overseas in the same weight class. The previous version (MA 600) did sell well, but only in China (310 examples). China has a big enough internal air transport market of course. Indonesia does too - so developing your own air transport (2 turboprop programs) makes sense.

MA700 is almost similar design to ATR 72 (86 seats) and a complete redesign compared to MA 600, which was initially based on Russian AN-24/26.

I brought up Indonesia's example only to show how a country like Indonesia did so well in aerospace compared to other countries in the same economic category. Of course BJ Habibie's involvement was a major factor, but the visionary nature of your leaders to invest in the industry of course also played a part.

 

[Bilal9]

CN 235 civil version just been developed recently by Indonesian Aerospace, but commercially it will be difficult to compete in the civilian market and for this it needs to be developed into more civilian friendly that make it need to have several modification. Meaningful modification of CN 235 is now pursuit by Indonesian Aerospace and the program name is N 245. N245 program is planned to start this year.

PT. Dirgantara Indonesia (Persero)

www.indonesian-aerospace.com

I hear Turkish Aerospace is also a manufacturing and marketing partner for the N245 project. So will there be separate parts of the airplane made in Turkey as well?

 

[Indos]

My apologies for the confusion and misunderstanding brother. I was referring to the CN235, but only the passenger version. Military version (joint venture along with CASA) is selling very well - as we all know.

Developing and selling passenger planes from non-EU or US/Canada countries is very difficult, as a lot of politics, regulatory and other factors play into it. The barriers to entry are high.

Even China is having issues selling its MA 700 turboprop aircraft overseas in the same weight class. The previous version (MA 600) did sell well, but only in China (310 examples). China has a big enough internal air transport market of course. MA700 is almost similar design to ATR 72 (86 seats) and a complete redesign compared to MA 600, which was initially based on Russian AN-24/26.

I brought up Indonesia's example only to show how a country like Indonesia did so well in aerospace compared to other countries in the same economic category. Of course BJ Habibie's involvement was a major factor, but the visionary nature of your leaders to invest in the industry of course also played a part.

No need to apologize brother

Well PT Dirgantara Indonesia (Indonesia Aerospace) comes from LIPNUR, an airplane production unit within Air Force. The one behind this unit is Nurtanio an aerospace engineer who studied in Philippine (Philippine in the 1950-1960 is quite advanced compared to other Asian nation like Korea and China at that time due to USA influence). Nurtanio died during test flight and become our national hero.

The unit can produce 12 planes a year in 1967

During 1960's we create Aerospace program in Bandung Institute of Technology (ITB). This is our best STEM University, similar like MIT in USA in relation to Indonesia. The university itself is made by Dutch in 1941 ( 5 years before Indonesia war of independence 1945-1949).

https://www.ftmd.itb.ac.id/en/faculty-profile/


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Yup economic sense is very important, this is why Indonesia Aerospace develop N 219 rather than complicated plane like N 2130 because we dont want to compete Boeing and Airbus and try to get market where those two mammoth dont exist.

Habibie say N 219 as a toy plane and he urges Indonesia Aerospace under newer generation to be more ambitious.........

But Indonesia Aerospace under newer generation want to develop the company in stages and for advance program later the company develop KFX/IFX together with South Korea.

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Habibie basically person behind all Indonesia state owned strategic companies. He has already been in charge with Indonesia high tech program since 1980's when he become Research Minister and prior to that he become Indonesia Aerospace Director during 1970's. PT LEN Industry for example is set up in 1990 which previously is an electronic R&D under Indonesian Research Institution LIPI.

 

[Indos]

I hear Turkish Aerospace is also a manufacturing and marketing partner for the N245 project. So will there be separate parts of the airplane made in Turkey as well?

Yup there is MOU on that but it hasnt become a contract. Currently N 245 is developed entirely by Indonesian engineers and money. Turkish cooperation is more intended to penetrate European market and the Turkish IMO will only produce parts and planes that they can sell under production license.

 

[Bilal9]

During 1960's we create Aerospace program in Bandung Institute of Technology (ITB). This is our best STEM University, similar like MIT in USA in relation to Indonesia. The university itself is made by Dutch in 1941 ( 5 years before Indonesia war of independence 1945-1949).

https://www.ftmd.itb.ac.id/en/faculty-profile/

Well we now know where to send our bright students to study aerospace and get actual manufacture experience in Bandung.

Well I understand the GELATIK is a passerine (sparrow species with big beak) bird in your country.

The airplane by the same name looks very similar to the Polish rotary-engine design called Wilga.

The difference is that the engine used in the Gelatik is a Continental boxer engine. Probably was built under license.

Very nice ab-initio trainer for that period (mid-1960's).

 

[KaiserX]

Dont see a reason to brag here. Ive worked with the US govt before on different projects/contracts. TBH there are many many Pakistanis and even more Indians (due to sheer population in the US) that work for the DOD/Pentagon/DHS. The fact that an article was written about this particular person would defiantly raise the eyebrows of the OPM and likely put their clearance in jeopardy esp if they have a Top secret/SCI which im sure he does since he works on such a sensitive project. The fact he is even bragging about working on such a project would bring many questions...

Doesnt mean the nation of their ethnicity gets any benefits

 

[Indos]

Dont see a reason to brag here. Ive worked with the US govt before on different projects/contracts. TBH there are many many Pakistanis and even more Indians (due to sheer population in the US) that work for the DOD/Pentagon/DHS. The fact that an article was written about this particular person would defiantly raise the eyebrows of the OPM and likely put their clearance in jeopardy esp if they have a Top secret/SCI which im sure he does since he works on such a sensitive project. The fact he is even bragging about working on such a project would bring many questions...

Doesnt mean the nation of their ethnicity gets any benefits

Yup, F15 EX program manager (very important position) is also an Indian American. Western nation can offer huge salary and only highly nationalist and maybe Jihadist (for Muslim case) individuals who will stay in the nation despite having highly capable and can get employed in Western nation easily.

 

[Indos]

Well we now know where to send our bright students to study aerospace and get actual manufacture experience in Bandung.

Well I understand the GELATIK is a passerine (sparrow species with big beak) bird in your country.

The airplane by the same name looks very similar to the Polish rotary-engine design called Wilga.

The difference is that the engine used in the Gelatik is a Continental boxer engine. Probably was built under license.

Very nice ab-initio trainer for that period (mid-1960's).

Yup Gelatik is under license, not designed by Nurtanio team (LIPNUR).

Well this is that is designed by Nurtanio.

The aircraft is made in Indonesia Air Force research and production depot. The depot later become Indonesia first aerospace company, PT Dirgantara Indonesia (PTDI) or Indonesian Aerospace Inc. The designer is Nurtanio. He is the pioneer of Indonesia aerospace.

The LIPNUR Sikumbang (manufacturer designation X-01) was a low-wing monoplane of mixed construction built in Indonesia in 1954 as a COIN and anti-guerrilla-warfare aircraft. Of conventional configuration, it had fixed tricycle undercarriage and seated the pilot under a bubble canopy. A single example was built under the designation NU-200 in 1954, and another as the NU-225 in 1957. The latter machine was grounded in 1967.

LIPNUR Sikumbang - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

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[Indos]

Well we now know where to send our bright students to study aerospace and get actual manufacture experience in Bandung.

Yup, ITB accept international students as well, here Pakistani study in ITB for master degree in engineering.