What's new

90 MMRCA deal and probable winner

90 MMRCA deal and probable winner

  • EF

    Votes: 10 38.5%
  • SU35

    Votes: 16 61.5%

  • Total voters
    26
Go for Mig 35. Russia had offered a special technology to make plane super maneuverable i case Mig 35 is selected.
Mig 35 just cost 150 crore. We can fit kaveri on Mig 35 in later stage.
 
India will eventually go for rafales. These dramas for 90 mmrca are all pressure tactics. These 90 rafales are to be made in india by dassult choosen partner (not hal) probably reliance.

And for heavy fighter we should go for su35 mki ( israeli +pakfa avionic ) srather than than su30mki which we will buy additionally.
 
Go for Mig 35. Russia had offered a special technology to make plane super maneuverable i case Mig 35 is selected.
Mig 35 just cost 150 crore. We can fit kaveri on Mig 35 in later stage.

That will be Suicidal. India cant afford so many fighters.
Infact, Im still puzzled over 36 Rafales.

They should have ordered 126 , but why 36. Apart from that even after phasing our Mig 27 /21 we still have :

- Jags
- Mirage
- SMTs
- MKIs
- Tejas
- Rafale ( x 36 )

Whats the point to add a Sixth Fighter ? IMHO

A. Wait for PAKFA and TEJAS II , while increase Numbers by adding MKI , OR
B. Add 126 - 200 Rafale , Forget Su 35 + Extra MKIs , OR
C. Forget Rafale ( cancel 36 as well ) go for Su 35 x 150 ( with explicit provision of RADAR / ENGINE ToT ) , Add Avionics from PAKFA to increase commonality that will be used for PAK FA as well.
 
That will be Suicidal. India cant afford so many fighters.
Infact, Im still puzzled over 36 Rafales.

They should have ordered 126 , but why 36. Apart from that even after phasing our Mig 27 /21 we still have :

- Jags
- Mirage
- SMTs
- MKIs
- Tejas
- Rafale ( x 36 )

Whats the point to add a Sixth Fighter ? IMHO

A. Wait for PAKFA and TEJAS II , while increase Numbers by adding MKI , OR
B. Add 126 - 200 Rafale , Forget Su 35 + Extra MKIs , OR
C. Forget Rafale ( cancel 36 as well ) go for Su 35 x 150 ( with explicit provision of RADAR / ENGINE ToT ) , Add Avionics from PAKFA to increase commonality.

No Mig 35 costs just 1/6th of Rafale. So 5 squordern of Mig 35 is just as costly as 1 sq. of Rafale.
 
No Mig 35 costs just 1/6th of Rafale. So 5 squordern of Mig 35 is just as costly as 1 sq. of Rafale.

Mig 35 is not complete. it will take another 10 Years to mature. We cant buy it even if we want it.

Besides, even Russians are not interested in Mig 35. Moreover, there is not point in comparing Jets now. IAF has meticulously made the comparisons on price and their requirements.
 
German offer?? If italy says no what can germans do?? and ksa is buying, paf can easily get access to it and study the aircraft inside out, do u think its a better option??

the chinese fighter is not a real 5th gen fighter they knew it very well, with its airframe and size its going to give a rcs, i wouldn't worry too much on so called chinese 5th gen. Dude even rafale is good against 5th gen fighter. remember when rafael fried f-22 in a dog fight!? its either EF or Rafael but buying 36 Rafael and separate 90 ef doesn't make sense man.

Am not sure how we could work it out with 4 nations . But for instance we can have agreement with 1 of the partner and make them the sole owner of the deal . I think it's possible .But am not sure .

On Rafale am not saying Rafale is a bad fighter but all am saying is EF is better than rRafale. It's well known fact . Even though both have same BVR missile EF has less RCS than rafale isn't It ?

It's not so simple as we thought. Choosing between these these three is very tricky. On one hand we need deep striker to engage with China so Su 35S is very sweetening .

On the other we lack BVR against Chinese J20s so EF comes in like an angel

More over we messed up with 36 rafale so we have to increase its number to make it viable option to expenses .

Now my friend that's called funked up

No Mig 35 costs just 1/6th of Rafale. So 5 squordern of Mig 35 is just as costly as 1 sq. of Rafale.

But what about its capabilities ? It's not even operational .

Go for Mig 35. Russia had offered a special technology to make plane super maneuverable i case Mig 35 is selected.
Mig 35 just cost 150 crore. We can fit kaveri on Mig 35 in later stage.

Dude Do u even aware that our kaveri just dried up ?

India will eventually go for rafales. These dramas for 90 mmrca are all pressure tactics. These 90 rafales are to be made in india by dassult choosen partner (not hal) probably reliance.

And for heavy fighter we should go for su35 mki ( israeli +pakfa avionic ) srather than than su30mki which we will buy additionally.
That's impossible except Rafale being made in India ... But I seriously doubt our choice . 36 rafale is more like a political call or diplomatic call. EF is far more superior than rafale in A2A and A2G will be available before we get our first squadron.
 
Am not sure how we could work it out with 4 nations . But for instance we can have agreement with 1 of the partner and make them the sole owner of the deal . I think it's possible .But am not sure .

On Rafale am not saying Rafale is a bad fighter but all am saying is EF is better than rRafale. It's well known fact . Even though both have same BVR missile EF has less RCS than rafale isn't It ?

It's not so simple as we thought. Choosing between these these three is very tricky. On one hand we need deep striker to engage with China so Su 35S is very sweetening .

On the other we lack BVR against Chinese J20s so EF comes in like an angel

More over we messed up with 36 rafale so we have to increase its number to make it viable option to expenses .

Now my friend that's called funked up



But what about its capabilities ? It's not even operational .



Dude Do u even aware that our kaveri just dried up ?


That's impossible except Rafale being made in India ... But I seriously doubt our choice . 36 rafale is more like a political call or diplomatic call. EF is far more superior than rafale in A2A and A2G will be available before we get our first squadron.


You are as if rafale is inferior to eurofighter. Euro is better in A2A due to its higher thrust engine which m88 is/ can also get in over due period. Also euro dont have operational aesa ( it may be better than rafale's but it wont be significant enough). Also rcs of rafale is .5 and euro is .1 there is no exceptional difference like flankers.

Lastly eurofighter has lots of maintenance problems( germany has most of it grounded). Euro A2G sucks
 
90 MMRCA deal and probable winner.

It's no secret that India canceled multi billion dollars 126 MMRCA deal by ordering 36 rafale directly from France . So the race for rest of the 90 MMRCA heated up. Reason being more or less 20 billion$ up for grab. Fight is again intensified from all sides via diplomatic channels , print media , flaming articles about speculations etc . But my question is which one should be selected and which one is good for our Indian Airforce keeping our potential threat in mind which are might sukois with China and their J10B.

Probable contenders are : Rafale , Gripin NG , Euro fighter , mig 35 , F18 but surprise contender could be su35 as reported by some Russian sources.Since we already tested all these fighters in detail there won't be any further delays for testing in Indian conditions.

Speculative : Why new MMRCA will favour either EF typoon or Su35S . Both have their pros and cons .

Euro Fighter's (EF) case : During the previous MMRCA deal two fighters were finalised .EF and rafale . For some weird reason Rafale was brought back into the race and won tender as lowest bidder among these two . But we all know what happened next as the price quoted by rafale saw cost escalation in actual expenditure and lots of problem with ToT which is the reason for scrapping. The second lowest bidder EF for long pushing for more vibrant ToT and flexible pricing, also offered faster delivery too. PM Modi's visit to Germany have strengthen the hope for EF .

Interesting fact that the new tender for 90 MMRCA comes at a time when Indian airforce Su30MKI participating in an exercise against EF .Surprised many. This is the coolest and closest opportunity for India to valuate EF capabilities against Sukoi 30s. It's future rivals if selected.

Su35S case : India operated Russian fighters for many decades. Latest version are the Mighty sukoi MKIs which is considered the best among the world.MKIs are one of a kind fighter in its family .Upgraded to Indian Airforce' s high standard and requirements. New MMRCA would open up doors for Su35s in 90 fighter jet competition . Since MKI already produced at home in India under ToT it makes sense for both the countries.India is looking to upgrade MKI to super sukois standard.So ordering current variant will delay our upgrade programme as another 90 have to be enhanced. Instead India could buy Su35 under same format of MKI .That is with upgraded avionics and other new features. Su35S - known as UFO fighters by western media .The aircraft is sleek , neat , mean ,stealthy 4++ generation definitely the best.Its reduced RCS and updated with new weapon systems. Only drawbacks are its passive radar as Indian Airforce want AESA radar which will improve capabilities of an aircraft in many folds. India also concerned about putting all eggs in one basket (Russia). But it dont matter once you have well established manufacturing base with the country. Because India already operates large number of Russian jets and Future Generations Fighter Aircraft 5th gen is also planned.So Putting all baskets won't be an issue here. Russians are more trustable than the EU or the Americans. That's said Sukois do have problems with availability which is just above 50% . Efforts been made to improve . It fuel guzzling engines which are more prone to dust particles in runways (among others) are also planned for an upgrade with new more economical engine optimisation .

Recently Russian ambassador hinted about secret testing taking/taken place in India for the last 2 years. Russian sources are the only one who accurately predicted the scraping of old MMRCA deal while things were going on track. The report said Indian Airforce is already in talks with Russia for Improved variant of Su35 called Su35S with More air to ground capabilities with renewed EW suit for Multi role and low level flying , AESA radar , Improved Engines , more stealthy etc among few . Interesting point being made is that these UPGRADES actually more or less same planned for the Super sukois upgrades .IAF planned to upgrade 272 sukois into 4++ stealth fighter in fue course of time.

EF vs su35 :

Since we heard it from horse's mouth Gripin is out of our wish list , Rafale stuck with price and ToT negotiation loop which we don't want to get into. Mig35 will be a huge risk with many shortfall while development , Americans jets always comes with strings attached . So my predictions are for EF or Su35S .

Which one will you chose ? For that we need to understand our future threat or even present threat we will fight . J10B J11D su27 and Su30Mkk . Chinese are already registered their trademark in the making of Su30 family as if they invented it. They understood every aspect of this fighter .So edge we posses is very thin against Chinese airforce. Same goes for china too .Indian sukois are more superior to theirs .Whole point for MMRCA is to have offensive capacity against Chinese . This is were EF comes into play . EF is the most advanced and most stealthy 4th gen fighter as of today.These jets are more stealthy than Rafale .And Rafale are much more stealthily than sukois. With 90 new EF IAF will posses amazing and powerful capabilities in whole of Asia.More than that we will have new tactics to take on Chinese flankers. BVR is one of the most important aspect of Destroying the enemy and own survival .Shoot and scoot is achieved only with Spead , Advanced Avionics , Stealth and weapon system which comes in handy with EF.

Rafale is also another favourite choice of our IAF as as we already saw what Mirages are capable of doing things more efficiently than other jets . 50 upgraded mirages + 36 Rafale will be enough for precision bombing and taking out enemy strategic assets while securing skies . While 36 being negotiated is common sense to have provision for additional 18 or 1 squadron. So 50 Mirage 2000I and 50 Rafale will be a dream team. And these jets are costly because of their amazing availability. So I think 50:50 is a fair numbers for any airforce. So we should get deal for the EF keeping future war tactics in mind. BVR and Stealth is the next level of Air combat with 5th generation fighters


With both sukois and EF our Air to Air capabilities will give tremendous advantages against Chinese airforce .

I vote for EF only if we get better deal as promised by UK and Germany. Full ToT or more than enough To. If If not If not we If not we can easily get Su35S and more MKI to overcome shortage.

Well im sure we will offer a good deal to India if it goes for our typhoons. Our eurofighter typhoons is the best 4++ generation fighter jet out there. Will be a huge boost to IAF, and will largely increase its capabilities in Asia.:)
 
Who wrote this piece of crap? Su 35 is heavy class fighter and EFT is mid.
 
Who wrote this piece of crap? Su 35 is heavy class fighter and EFT is mid.

It's like saying to an hungry man : You can't have big size bread(cheap) and wait for small piece of cake !!!?

And author of this piece of crap is me :) welcome .

There are many reason . most important being our inability to make it compatible for Tejas. You if you want to mention anything else than please discuss.

Leave tejas for now ... It has nothing to do with MMRCA . Matter of fact is that we need whole bunch of western fighter to maintain some sort of technology advantage over Chinese sukois . That's why gripin was rejected and Rafale and EF was selected in first place ... Mig 21 /27 replacement has nothing to with mmrca
 
It's like saying to an hungry man : You can't have big size bread(cheap) and wait for small piece of cake !!!?

And author of this piece of crap is me :) welcome .



Leave tejas for now ... It has nothing to do with MMRCA . Matter of fact is that we need whole bunch of western fighter to maintain some sort of technology advantage over Chinese sukois . That's why gripin was rejected and Rafale and EF was selected in first place ... Mig 21 /27 replacement has nothing to with mmrca

You can't use heavy fighters everywhere. It is primarily an air dominance fighter, not always suitable for other roles.
 

Pakistan Defence Latest Posts

Military Forum Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom