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90 MMRCA deal and probable winner

90 MMRCA deal and probable winner

  • EF

    Votes: 10 38.5%
  • SU35

    Votes: 16 61.5%

  • Total voters
    26
dekhte jao sirji abhi to jo ho raha hai wo sirf ek smoke screen hai end result aap jab dekhoge to is greeb short dark yaindoo baniye ko bahut yaad karoge .... per tab ham honge ki nahi pata nahi :(

why not dear we will celebrate here the induction of all these planes :yahoo:
 
I don't think we'll wait for 7 years... May be they'll upgrade or build more felicity in the same plant
Hi,
I was not speculating there. MKI build schedule is for another 7 years, and then the P1 for PMF FGFA begins.
 
Hi,
I was not speculating there. MKI build schedule is for another 7 years, and then the P1 for PMF FGFA begins.

Good enough if we start fgfa in 2022.

Will Hal BE ABLE TO??

I doubt that very much.
 
Dassault Rafale vs Eurofighter Typhoon
Overall rating table

CATEGORY DASSAULT RAFALE EUROFIGHTER TYPHOON
BVR Rating 90% 90%
Armament
7.8/10 8.0/10
Technology
7.7/10 8.8/10
Avionics 8.0/10 8.6/10
Maneuverability 9.5/10 9.7/10
Rate of Climb max. 300 m/s – 6ok ft/min max. 315 m/s – 65k ft/min
Thrust/Weight
1.13 1.15
Service Ceiling 17 km – 55k ft 20 km – 65k ft
Speed
2.00 Mach 2.35 Mach
Fuel Economy 0.27 km/l – 0.63 NM/gallon 0.68 km/l – 1.60 NM/gallon
Unit Cost 90.000.000 USD 125.000.000 USD
Overall Rating very good excellent
 
F18F super hornet.
LCA MKI, MKII
AMCA
More or less same power plants.
Definitely no strings when we look east. Multi role, carrier capable aircraft.
Lets try American maal this time.
 
Why do you think that??? If they want the cash they'll give or we'll go for other option.. but priority is Rafale. And what makes you think EF is not going to do the same???

Looks like they don't give a damn about what we want . EF is just a better option with very advanced fighter than rafale . And Germany is been looking towards India for the deal .
 
Looks like they don't give a damn about what we want . EF is just a better option with very advanced fighter than rafale . And Germany is been looking towards India for the deal .

hmm... EF is over crowded that's the problem... we've to deal with what 4 nations?!.. and rafale is also better figher man
 
BVR and Stealth is the next level of Air combat with 5th generation fighters
I entirely agree. It's BVR that's the future of air combat. The days of dog fights are nearing their end. The Americans too had realized this when they designed the F-35, laying stress on stealth and BVR combat.

A couple of decades hence, it would be combat with drone fighters with pilots sitting in the safety of their ops rooms controlling advanced UCAVs with full situational awareness. We need to lay more stress on this new paradigm in aerial combat. This is the future. Black projects like Lockheed Martin's Skunk Works are already on it. We need to start now, if we haven't already!
 
I entirely agree. It's BVR that's the future of air combat. The days of dog fights are nearing their end. The Americans too had realized this when they designed the F-35, laying stress on stealth and BVR combat.

A couple of decades hence, it would be combat with drone fighters with pilots sitting in the safety of their ops rooms controlling advanced UCAVs with full situational awareness. We need to lay more stress on this new paradigm in aerial combat. This is the future. Black projects like Lockheed Martin's Skunk Works are already on it. We need to start now, if we haven't already!
we are late very very late with respect to UCAV tech or armed drone tech like predator or reaper ... heck even a small nation like israel is far far ahead of us in this respect :hitwall::pissed:
 
hmm... EF is over crowded that's the problem... we've to deal with what 4 nations?!.. and rafale is also better figher man

We should stick with German's offer if at all we go for EF .

And one more thing EF is technologically more advanced than Rafale. I mean literally !!!

Think about it .With MKI or Super sukois no one will beat us In WVR battle . As our pilots are well trained so two pilots will make sure of splash ! But am worried about our BVR against 5th gen jets . Chinese in no time get their first stealth fighter which ours will take 5-8 years . That's nearly a decade . To have better luck one should get inside the best fighter jet . Simple as that . There is no luck in air to air combat . It all depends on who will lock whom first will survive . Will least RCS a fighter jet can get first lock and fire against bigger RCS . In this case EF will have edge over Rafale too . We can bet on EF against Chinese Stealth technology which would be more or less same RCS (as Chinese yet to master full stealth technology like US or Russians did) . I doubt huge jets like MKI or Su35 can achieve the same . We must be cleaver and go for best air to air jets which also can be used for A2G .

I entirely agree. It's BVR that's the future of air combat. The days of dog fights are nearing their end. The Americans too had realized this when they designed the F-35, laying stress on stealth and BVR combat.

A couple of decades hence, it would be combat with drone fighters with pilots sitting in the safety of their ops rooms controlling advanced UCAVs with full situational awareness. We need to lay more stress on this new paradigm in aerial combat. This is the future. Black projects like Lockheed Martin's Skunk Works are already on it. We need to start now, if we haven't already!

Did you read about today's news on Nasa's drone to monitor Mars and Moon :D ? Anyway Americans has made the mistake of not having guns on their fighters few decades ago but better lesson they learnt made them fit all their fighters with guns till date . But those are 60s 70s when they thought there won't be any need for close combat as missiles will dominate but they wr wrong . But it's really interesting to see the same Americans has created F35 fighter bomber which is just like duck in some butcher shop if it have to dog fight with its short wing and fat tummy . May be with technology finally we are reaching BVR's age of A2A .
 
WVR combat is far from over. Particularly the place where India is sitting on the map.
 
90 MMRCA deal and probable winner.

It's no secret that India canceled multi billion dollars 126 MMRCA deal by ordering 36 rafale directly from France . So the race for rest of the 90 MMRCA heated up. Reason being more or less 20 billion$ up for grab. Fight is again intensified from all sides via diplomatic channels , print media , flaming articles about speculations etc . But my question is which one should be selected and which one is good for our Indian Airforce keeping our potential threat in mind which are might sukois with China and their J10B.

Probable contenders are : Rafale , Gripin NG , Euro fighter , mig 35 , F18 but surprise contender could be su35 as reported by some Russian sources.Since we already tested all these fighters in detail there won't be any further delays for testing in Indian conditions.

Speculative : Why new MMRCA will favour either EF typoon or Su35S . Both have their pros and cons .

Euro Fighter's (EF) case : During the previous MMRCA deal two fighters were finalised .EF and rafale . For some weird reason Rafale was brought back into the race and won tender as lowest bidder among these two . But we all know what happened next as the price quoted by rafale saw cost escalation in actual expenditure and lots of problem with ToT which is the reason for scrapping. The second lowest bidder EF for long pushing for more vibrant ToT and flexible pricing, also offered faster delivery too. PM Modi's visit to Germany have strengthen the hope for EF .

Interesting fact that the new tender for 90 MMRCA comes at a time when Indian airforce Su30MKI participating in an exercise against EF .Surprised many. This is the coolest and closest opportunity for India to valuate EF capabilities against Sukoi 30s. It's future rivals if selected.

Su35S case : India operated Russian fighters for many decades. Latest version are the Mighty sukoi MKIs which is considered the best among the world.MKIs are one of a kind fighter in its family .Upgraded to Indian Airforce' s high standard and requirements. New MMRCA would open up doors for Su35s in 90 fighter jet competition . Since MKI already produced at home in India under ToT it makes sense for both the countries.India is looking to upgrade MKI to super sukois standard.So ordering current variant will delay our upgrade programme as another 90 have to be enhanced. Instead India could buy Su35 under same format of MKI .That is with upgraded avionics and other new features. Su35S - known as UFO fighters by western media .The aircraft is sleek , neat , mean ,stealthy 4++ generation definitely the best.Its reduced RCS and updated with new weapon systems. Only drawbacks are its passive radar as Indian Airforce want AESA radar which will improve capabilities of an aircraft in many folds. India also concerned about putting all eggs in one basket (Russia). But it dont matter once you have well established manufacturing base with the country. Because India already operates large number of Russian jets and Future Generations Fighter Aircraft 5th gen is also planned.So Putting all baskets won't be an issue here. Russians are more trustable than the EU or the Americans. That's said Sukois do have problems with availability which is just above 50% . Efforts been made to improve . It fuel guzzling engines which are more prone to dust particles in runways (among others) are also planned for an upgrade with new more economical engine optimisation .

Recently Russian ambassador hinted about secret testing taking/taken place in India for the last 2 years. Russian sources are the only one who accurately predicted the scraping of old MMRCA deal while things were going on track. The report said Indian Airforce is already in talks with Russia for Improved variant of Su35 called Su35S with More air to ground capabilities with renewed EW suit for Multi role and low level flying , AESA radar , Improved Engines , more stealthy etc among few . Interesting point being made is that these UPGRADES actually more or less same planned for the Super sukois upgrades .IAF planned to upgrade 272 sukois into 4++ stealth fighter in fue course of time.

EF vs su35 :

Since we heard it from horse's mouth Gripin is out of our wish list , Rafale stuck with price and ToT negotiation loop which we don't want to get into. Mig35 will be a huge risk with many shortfall while development , Americans jets always comes with strings attached . So my predictions are for EF or Su35S .

Which one will you chose ? For that we need to understand our future threat or even present threat we will fight . J10B J11D su27 and Su30Mkk . Chinese are already registered their trademark in the making of Su30 family as if they invented it. They understood every aspect of this fighter .So edge we posses is very thin against Chinese airforce. Same goes for china too .Indian sukois are more superior to theirs .Whole point for MMRCA is to have offensive capacity against Chinese . This is were EF comes into play . EF is the most advanced and most stealthy 4th gen fighter as of today.These jets are more stealthy than Rafale .And Rafale are much more stealthily than sukois. With 90 new EF IAF will posses amazing and powerful capabilities in whole of Asia.More than that we will have new tactics to take on Chinese flankers. BVR is one of the most important aspect of Destroying the enemy and own survival .Shoot and scoot is achieved only with Spead , Advanced Avionics , Stealth and weapon system which comes in handy with EF.

Rafale is also another favourite choice of our IAF as as we already saw what Mirages are capable of doing things more efficiently than other jets . 50 upgraded mirages + 36 Rafale will be enough for precision bombing and taking out enemy strategic assets while securing skies . While 36 being negotiated is common sense to have provision for additional 18 or 1 squadron. So 50 Mirage 2000I and 50 Rafale will be a dream team. And these jets are costly because of their amazing availability. So I think 50:50 is a fair numbers for any airforce. So we should get deal for the EF keeping future war tactics in mind. BVR and Stealth is the next level of Air combat with 5th generation fighters


With both sukois and EF our Air to Air capabilities will give tremendous advantages against Chinese airforce .

I vote for EF only if we get better deal as promised by UK and Germany. Full ToT or more than enough To. If If not If not we If not we can easily get Su35S and more MKI to overcome shortage.



I know in my mind that Rafales are coming in big numbers, it has too. I truly think Parikar is playing chicken with Dasault. Hope it pays well.

Damn, But now SU-35s does sounds pretty interesting nowo_O.

Or sign Rafale deal for 36 + 36 optional and then go for SU-35s

Either way, Hoping this chapter finishes quick.
 
Last edited:
We should stick with German's offer if at all we go for EF .

And one more thing EF is technologically more advanced than Rafale. I mean literally !!!

Think about it .With MKI or Super sukois no one will beat us In WVR battle . As our pilots are well trained so two pilots will make sure of splash ! But am worried about our BVR against 5th gen jets . Chinese in no time get their first stealth fighter which ours will take 5-8 years . That's nearly a decade . To have better luck one should get inside the best fighter jet . Simple as that . There is no luck in air to air combat . It all depends on who will lock whom first will survive . Will least RCS a fighter jet can get first lock and fire against bigger RCS . In this case EF will have edge over Rafale too . We can bet on EF against Chinese Stealth technology which would be more or less same RCS (as Chinese yet to master full stealth technology like US or Russians did) . I doubt huge jets like MKI or Su35 can achieve the same . We must be cleaver and go for best air to air jets which also can be used for A2G .

German offer?? If italy says no what can germans do?? and ksa is buying, paf can easily get access to it and study the aircraft inside out, do u think its a better option??

the chinese fighter is not a real 5th gen fighter they knew it very well, with its airframe and size its going to give a rcs, i wouldn't worry too much on so called chinese 5th gen. Dude even rafale is good against 5th gen fighter. remember when rafael fried f-22 in a dog fight!? its either EF or Rafael but buying 36 Rafael and separate 90 ef doesn't make sense man.
 
and begins a new decade of indian fanboy masturbation...





90 MMRCA deal and probable winner.

It's no secret that India canceled multi billion dollars 126 MMRCA deal by ordering 36 rafale directly from France . So the race for rest of the 90 MMRCA heated up. Reason being more or less 20 billion$ up for grab. Fight is again intensified from all sides via diplomatic channels , print media , flaming articles about speculations etc . But my question is which one should be selected and which one is good for our Indian Airforce keeping our potential threat in mind which are might sukois with China and their J10B.

Probable contenders are : Rafale , Gripin NG , Euro fighter , mig 35 , F18 but surprise contender could be su35 as reported by some Russian sources.Since we already tested all these fighters in detail there won't be any further delays for testing in Indian conditions.

Speculative : Why new MMRCA will favour either EF typoon or Su35S . Both have their pros and cons .

Euro Fighter's (EF) case : During the previous MMRCA deal two fighters were finalised .EF and rafale . For some weird reason Rafale was brought back into the race and won tender as lowest bidder among these two . But we all know what happened next as the price quoted by rafale saw cost escalation in actual expenditure and lots of problem with ToT which is the reason for scrapping. The second lowest bidder EF for long pushing for more vibrant ToT and flexible pricing, also offered faster delivery too. PM Modi's visit to Germany have strengthen the hope for EF .

Interesting fact that the new tender for 90 MMRCA comes at a time when Indian airforce Su30MKI participating in an exercise against EF .Surprised many. This is the coolest and closest opportunity for India to valuate EF capabilities against Sukoi 30s. It's future rivals if selected.

Su35S case : India operated Russian fighters for many decades. Latest version are the Mighty sukoi MKIs which is considered the best among the world.MKIs are one of a kind fighter in its family .Upgraded to Indian Airforce' s high standard and requirements. New MMRCA would open up doors for Su35s in 90 fighter jet competition . Since MKI already produced at home in India under ToT it makes sense for both the countries.India is looking to upgrade MKI to super sukois standard.So ordering current variant will delay our upgrade programme as another 90 have to be enhanced. Instead India could buy Su35 under same format of MKI .That is with upgraded avionics and other new features. Su35S - known as UFO fighters by western media .The aircraft is sleek , neat , mean ,stealthy 4++ generation definitely the best.Its reduced RCS and updated with new weapon systems. Only drawbacks are its passive radar as Indian Airforce want AESA radar which will improve capabilities of an aircraft in many folds. India also concerned about putting all eggs in one basket (Russia). But it dont matter once you have well established manufacturing base with the country. Because India already operates large number of Russian jets and Future Generations Fighter Aircraft 5th gen is also planned.So Putting all baskets won't be an issue here. Russians are more trustable than the EU or the Americans. That's said Sukois do have problems with availability which is just above 50% . Efforts been made to improve . It fuel guzzling engines which are more prone to dust particles in runways (among others) are also planned for an upgrade with new more economical engine optimisation .

Recently Russian ambassador hinted about secret testing taking/taken place in India for the last 2 years. Russian sources are the only one who accurately predicted the scraping of old MMRCA deal while things were going on track. The report said Indian Airforce is already in talks with Russia for Improved variant of Su35 called Su35S with More air to ground capabilities with renewed EW suit for Multi role and low level flying , AESA radar , Improved Engines , more stealthy etc among few . Interesting point being made is that these UPGRADES actually more or less same planned for the Super sukois upgrades .IAF planned to upgrade 272 sukois into 4++ stealth fighter in fue course of time.

EF vs su35 :

Since we heard it from horse's mouth Gripin is out of our wish list , Rafale stuck with price and ToT negotiation loop which we don't want to get into. Mig35 will be a huge risk with many shortfall while development , Americans jets always comes with strings attached . So my predictions are for EF or Su35S .

Which one will you chose ? For that we need to understand our future threat or even present threat we will fight . J10B J11D su27 and Su30Mkk . Chinese are already registered their trademark in the making of Su30 family as if they invented it. They understood every aspect of this fighter .So edge we posses is very thin against Chinese airforce. Same goes for china too .Indian sukois are more superior to theirs .Whole point for MMRCA is to have offensive capacity against Chinese . This is were EF comes into play . EF is the most advanced and most stealthy 4th gen fighter as of today.These jets are more stealthy than Rafale .And Rafale are much more stealthily than sukois. With 90 new EF IAF will posses amazing and powerful capabilities in whole of Asia.More than that we will have new tactics to take on Chinese flankers. BVR is one of the most important aspect of Destroying the enemy and own survival .Shoot and scoot is achieved only with Spead , Advanced Avionics , Stealth and weapon system which comes in handy with EF.

Rafale is also another favourite choice of our IAF as as we already saw what Mirages are capable of doing things more efficiently than other jets . 50 upgraded mirages + 36 Rafale will be enough for precision bombing and taking out enemy strategic assets while securing skies . While 36 being negotiated is common sense to have provision for additional 18 or 1 squadron. So 50 Mirage 2000I and 50 Rafale will be a dream team. And these jets are costly because of their amazing availability. So I think 50:50 is a fair numbers for any airforce. So we should get deal for the EF keeping future war tactics in mind. BVR and Stealth is the next level of Air combat with 5th generation fighters


With both sukois and EF our Air to Air capabilities will give tremendous advantages against Chinese airforce .

I vote for EF only if we get better deal as promised by UK and Germany. Full ToT or more than enough To. If If not If not we If not we can easily get Su35S and more MKI to overcome shortage.
 

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