67th anniversary Hiroshima bombings

[Harry_Thomason]

And did I read part of the defence as "leaflets thrown over 35 cities of bombing raids, including Hiroshima and Nagasaki"?

Actually those leaflets were thrown AFTER nuclear bombs were dropped.

Both viable targets in a total war. I dont understand how you fail to see this?

So what Japan did in Asia was also normal in a total war? Not only US would approve your logic, but Hitler as well.

Also what you dont know or understand, is that DISTRICTS (not talking about cities in general) nuclear bombs were dropped on were CIVILIAN. It wasnt a mistake either, I have seen US targets list, almost exclusively all targets by nuke were civilian in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. In the long target list only few had a remote military application, like cloth manufacturer, which was making army uniforms.

So once again - US wasnt targeting Japan army or military objects, it was civilians.

 

[vsdoc]

page abracadabra

So once again - US wasnt targeting Japan army or military objects, it was civilians.

Post war toll counts put the civilian casualties as 7 to every 1 military/paramilitary killed in both the cities.

This was pre-meditated civilian shock strikes.

 

[Harry_Thomason]

Post war toll counts put the civilian casualties as 7 to every 1 military/paramilitary killed in both the cities.

This was pre-meditated civilian shock strikes.

Exactly, as ironically Audio correctly mentioned one thing - alies did the same in Germany, just with conventional carpet bombing.

 

[gambit]

So what Japan did in Asia was also normal in a total war?

According to the Japanese: Yes.

Not only US would approve your logic, but Hitler as well.

Also what you dont know or understand, is that DISTRICTS (not talking about cities in general) nuclear bombs were dropped on were CIVILIAN. It wasnt a mistake either, I have seen US targets list, almost exclusively all targets by nuke were civilian in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. In the long target list only few had a remote military application, like cloth manufacturer, which was making army uniforms.

So once again - US wasnt targeting Japan army or military objects, it was civilians.

No one said it was any 'mistake'. A city is a country's resources for the capacity to wage a war. What YOU do not understand is that this was a time before the formalization of the Geneva Conventions and the morality that in a war, there should be clear distinctions between 'civilian' and 'military' targets, and the advent of 'smart' weapons that made such distinctions more likely.

This was pre-meditated civilian shock strikes.

The crocodile tears continues...

 

[vsdoc]

Exactly, as ironically Audio correctly mentioned one thing - alies did the same in Germany, just with conventional carpet bombing.

Yes man - I have been swamped by American military professionals shoving Dresden and Tokyo firebombings down my throat and asking me why I dont make a song and dance about it.

My point is - do you have a LEG to stand on with regard to what I DO make a song and dance about?

The crocodile tears continues...

Trying to defend the indefensible never stopped ......

 

[gambit]

Yes man - I have been swamped by American military professionals shoving Dresden and Tokyo firebombings down my throat and asking me why I dont make a song and dance about it.

My point is - do you have a LEG to stand on with regard to what I DO make a song and dance about?

And they are legitimate questions. Why not?

Trying to defend the indefensible never stopped ......

It is only your opinion that it is indefensible. From what we have seen of Japanese atrocities in Asia, mine is: Yes.

 

[vsdoc]

And they are legitimate questions. Why not?

So are mine. Why dont you scan the pages and posts while you've ben away and come back with a defence.

It is only your opini on that it is indefensible. From what we have seen of Japanese atrocities in Asia, mine is: Yes.

In trying to defeat evil, when you become evil yourself, you only defeat the footsoldier of evil. Not evil itself.

The nuclear **** the world finds itself in today is YOUR doing.

So do not preach to us about disarmament and NPT and all that jazz.

Disarm first and then talk.

 

[gambit]

So are mine. Why dont you scan the pages and posts while you've ben away and come back with a defence.

Why do you focus on the A-bombs when other methods produces far more casualties?

 

[Zabaniyah]

Japanese love
American culture but don't
love Americans thats for sure .

Be careful...

The Japanese have their own culture and proud of it. Don't let looks fool ya...

As for all these folks spreading crocodile tears, please understand that the Imperial Japanese committed crimes that were so horrific, that they are simply unspeakable!

Ask the Chinese, and other Asians who were under Japanese occupation as whether or not they deserved it. The answer would be an overwhelming yes. We deshis these days just don't get it since we weren't under their occupation, and not let them come to an inch of India under the British.

The Japanese were asked to surrender. They didn't, even though the Germans did. So, they got the bombs coming. Besides an Allied land invasion would have wreaked far more casualties. Europe, Africa and Asia were bloody enough. I am sure President Truman thought over it long and hard.

I mean why spread crocodile tears now? The Japanese are successful and happy now. But it is important to remember that terrible event to remind ourselves that this never happens again.

Piece of advise to you lot: just make sure you, yourselves don't drop the hammer

 

[vsdoc]

Why do you focus on the A-bombs when other methods produces far more casualties?

Because of what led to it.

Because of the motives.

Because of how your leadership looked at human beings.

Because of current generation Americans like you who show no remorse and still brazen it out.

At least Germans as a people are collectively embarrassed by what they did.

So are the Japanese.

 

[Audio]

In the long target list only few had a remote military application, like cloth manufacturer, which was making army uniforms.

So once again - US wasnt targeting Japan army or military objects, it was civilians.

You make it easy Harry Thomason.

The Fat Man weapon, containing a core of about 6.4 kilograms (14 lb) of plutonium, was dropped over the city's industrial valley. It exploded 43 seconds later at 469 metres (1,539 ft) above the ground halfway between the Mitsubishi Steel and Arms Works in the south and the Mitsubishi-Urakami Ordnance Works (Torpedo Works) in the north.

Cloth torpedoes!

So what Japan did in Asia was also normal in a total war? Not only US would approve your logic, but Hitler as well.

Shooting peasants on the field and gasing Jews on the pretext's of making living space is not the same as bombing a cities with military command, extensive military industrial capacity.
It is not normal by any standards but i think the boundaries of what's normal and ethically allowed were a bit different at the end of WWII then today.

To illustrate the above point:

A 1944 opinion poll that asked what should be done with Japan found that 13% of the US public were in favor of "killing off" all Japanese: men, women, and children.

a poll in Fortune magazine in late 1945 showed a significant minority of Americans wishing that more atomic bombs could have been dropped on Japan.

 

[vsdoc]

Be careful...

The Japanese have their own culture and proud of it. Don't let looks fool ya...

As for all these folks spreading crocodile tears, please understand that the Imperial Japanese committed crimes that were so horrific, that they are simply unspeakable!

Ask the Chinese, and other Asians who were under Japanese occupation as whether or not they deserved it. The answer would be an overwhelming yes. We deshis these days just don't get it since we weren't under their occupation, and not let them come to an inch of India under the British.

The Japanese were asked to surrender. They didn't, even though the Germans did. So, they got the bombs coming. Besides an Allied land invasion would have wreaked far more casualties. Europe, Africa and Asia were bloody enough. I am sure President Truman thought over it long and hard.

I mean why spread crocodile tears now? The Japanese are successful and happy now. But it is important to remember that terrible event to remind ourselves that this never happens again.

Piece of advise to you lot: just make sure you, yourselves don't drop the hammer, since your region is the most prone to a nuclear war in this age. And that with poor nuclear security crawling with thugs and terrorists. I'd certainly be more concerned with that if I were you. I mean really, it is for your own good.

You are a Bangladeshi.

Why are you pontificating with a "you guys" as if your are speaking from the Vatican?

 

[Audio]

I call BS on the first. True on the second wrt Hiroshima.

After the Hiroshima bombing, Truman issued a statement announcing the use of the new weapon. He stated, "We may be grateful to Providence" that the German atomic bomb project had failed, and that the United States and its allies had "spent two billion dollars on the greatest scientific gamble in history-and won." Truman then warned Japan:
If they do not now accept our terms, they may expect a rain of ruin from the air, the like of which has never been seen on this earth. Behind this air attack will follow sea and land forces in such numbers and power as they have not yet seen and with the fighting skill of which they are already well aware.[83]


Leaflets urging quick surrender were dropped over Japan by the 509th Composite Group on the bombing mission
The Japanese government still did not react to the Potsdam Declaration. Emperor Hirohito, the government, and the war council were considering four conditions for surrender: the preservation of the kokutai (Imperial institution and national polity), assumption by the Imperial Headquarters of responsibility for disarmament and demobilization, no occupation of the Japanese Home Islands, Korea, or Formosa, and delegation of the punishment of war criminals to the Japanese government.[84]

this changed:

In his declaration, Hirohito referred to the atomic bombings:
Moreover, the enemy now possesses a new and terrible weapon with the power to destroy many innocent lives and do incalculable damage. Should we continue to fight, not only would it result in an ultimate collapse and obliteration of the Japanese nation, but also it would lead to the total extinction of human civilization. Such being the case, how are We to save the millions of Our subjects, or to atone Ourselves before the hallowed spirits of Our Imperial Ancestors? This is the reason why We have ordered the acceptance of the provisions of the Joint Declaration of the Powers.

As the United States dropped its atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki in August 1945, 1.6 million Soviet troops launched a surprise attack on the Japanese forces occupying eastern Asia. "The Soviet entry into the war played a much greater role than the atomic bombs in inducing Japan to surrender because it dashed any hope that Japan could terminate the war through Moscow's mediation", said Japanese historian Tsuyoshi Hasegawa, whose recently published Racing the Enemy: Stalin, Truman, and the Surrender of Japan is based on recently declassified Soviet archives as well as US and Japanese documents

 

[Harry_Thomason]

Ask the Chinese, and other Asians who were under Japanese occupation as whether or not they deserved it. The answer would be an overwhelming yes.

So civilians have to be massacred to revenge the army, who did those atrocities? If army/emperor did those crimes, revenge on them, not woman and children.

The Japanese were asked to surrender. They didn't, even though the Germans did. So, they got the bombs coming. Besides an Allied land invasion would have wreaked far more casualties. Europe, Africa and Asia were bloody enough. I am sure President Truman thought over it long and hard.

Wrong history. Japan was offering surrender over and over again, for half a year before the bombs. And nukes not only werent necessary, they were just a genocidal tool to achieve US goal (to get Japan surrender to them instead of Soviets, as well as to test new weapon before war was over).

 

[vsdoc]

this changed:

Source of the above? It goes totally opposite to what is known and has been revealed - something I have already posted -WITH source.