6 dead in string of attacks in southern Israel

[Safriz]

ok i get you now....both sides of the coin that is?

israeli point of view is being shouted round the world...with support from the most powerful.
palestinian point of view is dumbed down and hushed up by force in their land.....and whatever support is gathered for them.issystematically tainted by branding the palestinians as terrorists and calling supporters terrorist supporters.

about anti semetism...jews cannot hide behind anti semetism card.....if they do wrong it is normal for anybody to raise voice and its not against a jew..its agsins a wrong doer.so technically not anti smetism...but convenient to presrnt any anti israeli voice as anti semetic.

same as in muslims in judaism there are sects...and zionism is a sect of judaism..not every jew is zionist.

its zionists who are the main root cause not jews

 

[Safriz]

Read Oslo agreements. According to agreements Wet Bank and Gaza are devided into 3 zones:

A - full Palestinian control.
B - Palestinian civil rule, Israeli military control.
C - full Israeli control.

The final status and borders should be determined in negotiations. Until then Israel has full legal right to stay in zones B and C.

the last part is where the catch is...."until negitiations" who and when will israel negotiate? given the fact that israel doent recognise the elected government of palestinians and calls them a joke...you cant negotiate with a joke..

very clever..very convenient for israel....never let the situation come to a point where negotiations about borders can be called.

 

[muse]

palestinian point of view is dumbed down and hushed up

That would not be the case if you were better at helping to get their point of view across - You fail and blame the rest of the world - with friends like you, the Palestinians are poor shape.

Just look at the various arguments offered, ostensibly, on behalf of the Palestinians, how is the Palestinian position furthered by outright calling the Israeli the lowest form of human, how is it furthered by suggesting that Zionism is a sect of Judaism?

Don't blame others because you construct such lousy arguments - create better arguments - Your indignation is animated by what you see an injustice -- A Jew who has not experienced the same, I don't think can be found on this Earth, instead of pointing and leading with this - you prefer abuses, you turn off people before they can ever consider your argument.

Please don't be cross with me - just make better arguments, think about your audience, after all not everybody here is frothing at the mouth

 

[Safriz]

no i am not angry..after all its a discussion.we are not here to solve problems....just discuss.
although i am not sure if you are fully reading my comments or partially.

uncle google says.

A Definition of Zionism
Zionism, the national movement for the return of the Jewish
people to their homeland and the resumption of Jewish
sovereignty in the Land of Israel, advocated, from its inception,
tangible as well as spiritual aims. Jews of all persuasions, left and
right, religious and secular, joined to form the Zionist movement
and worked together toward these goals. Disagreements led to
rifts, but ultimately, the common goal of a Jewish state in its
ancient homeland was attained. The term “Zionism” was coined
in 1890 by Nathan Birnbaum.

so there you go.zionism is a mumbo jumbo of political and religious ideoligies from jewish teachings....its about a stong and powerful israel...it has nothing to do with putting judaism in peoples practical life.its about world dominance of sons of israel.
by force and political manipulation.
same way as current form of islamic radicalism is not about putting islam in peoples lives...its about world domination by force.

 

[muse]

You realize of course that there more Christian Zionists than there are Jewish religious Zionist or Secular Zionists -- with this in mind, do you think you may want to reevaluate the suggestion that it is a sect of Judaism?

Anyway, explain to me how the position of the Palestinian is furthered by a discussion of Zionism?

You do realize that these most recent terror attacks, are designed to destabilize the relations between Israel and her largest neighbor -- now if these relations are destabilized, will that benefit the Palestinians?

 

[500]

the last part is where the catch is...."until negitiations" who and when will israel negotiate? given the fact that israel doent recognise the elected government of palestinians and calls them a joke...you cant negotiate with a joke..

very clever..very convenient for israel....never let the situation come to a point where negotiations about borders can be called.

Israel does not mind to negotiate with anyone. Problem is that Hamas does not recognize Oslo agreements which are recognized by rest of the world. You cant resume negotiations of other side does not recognize previous agreements. So currently ball is on Palestinian side. Until then Israel has full legal right to stay in areas B and C.

 

[jdme]

You realize of course that there more Christian Zionists than there are Jewish religious Zionist or Secular Zionists -- with this in mind, do you think you may want to reevaluate the suggestion that it is a sect of Judaism?

Anyway, explain to me how the position of the Palestinian is furthered by a discussion of Zionism?

You do realize that these most recent terror attacks, are designed to destabilize the relations between Israel and her largest neighbor -- now if these relations are destabilized, will that benefit the Palestinians?

Israel was created by the will of a Christian American President. Alas, people never bother to read stuff.

 

[Mosamania]

Israel does not mind to negotiate with anyone. Problem is that Hamas does not recognize Oslo agreements which are recognized by rest of the world. You cant resume negotiations of other side does not recognize previous agreements. So currently ball is on Palestinian side. Until then Israel has full legal right to stay in areas B and C.

So you are saying that the rest of the world made an agreement with Israel and then forced it on the Palastinians to accept it??

 

[jdme]

So you are saying that the rest of the world made an agreement with Israel and then forced it on the Palastinians to accept it??

Define rest of the world? Except for Muslim countries, surely "rest of the world" doesn't care. You find it that hard to believe?

 

[Safriz]

So you are saying that the rest of the world made an agreement with Israel and then forced it on the Palastinians to accept it??

lt was not an agreement..it was an accord between then leader of palestinians yaser arafat and israel under supervision of bill clinton...it was a framework of future negotiations not an agreement......the negotiations that never happened....
this does not make israel legitimate...
this is what wiki says.

e Oslo Accords were a framework for the future relations
between the two parties. The Accords provided for the creation of
aPalestinian National Authority (PNA). The Palestinian Authority
would have responsibility for the administration of the territory
under its control. The Accords also called for the withdrawal of the
Israel Defense Forces (IDF) from parts of the Gaza Strip and West
Bank.
It was anticipated that this arrangement would last for a five-year
interim period during which a permanent agreement would be
negotiated (beginning no later than May 1996). Permanent issues
such aspositions on Jerusalem, Palestinian refugees, Israeli
settlements, security and borders were deliberately left to be
decided at a later stage. Interim Palestinian self-government was
to be granted by Israel in phases.

 

[Mosamania]

lt was not an agreement..it was an accord between then leader of palestinians yaser arafat and israel under supervision of bill clinton...it was a framework of future negotiations not an agreement......the negotiations that never happened....
this does not make israel legitimate...
this is what wiki says.

e Oslo Accords were a framework for the future relations
between the two parties. The Accords provided for the creation of
aPalestinian National Authority (PNA). The Palestinian Authority
would have responsibility for the administration of the territory
under its control. The Accords also called for the withdrawal of the
Israel Defense Forces (IDF) from parts of the Gaza Strip and West
Bank.
It was anticipated that this arrangement would last for a five-year
interim period during which a permanent agreement would be
negotiated (beginning no later than May 1996). Permanent issues
such aspositions on Jerusalem, Palestinian refugees, Israeli
settlements, security and borders were deliberately left to be
decided at a later stage. Interim Palestinian self-government was
to be granted by Israel in phases.

Exactly I was waiting for someone to get this info out to our fellow Israeli members who thinks that the Oslo accords means that entire Palastine now belongs to them and they know they will lose territory once they negotiate so they are trying to build settlements all over area C and some of area B since according to the Oslo agreement it belongs completely to Israel and all palastinians there should be kicked out.....

 

[500]

So you are saying that the rest of the world made an agreement with Israel and then forced it on the Palastinians to accept it??

Israel and PLO made Oslo agreements. These agreements are recognized by all the world. Now comes Hamas and says that it does not recognize agreements. - Thats Palestinian problem.

 

[Mosamania]

Israel and PLO made Oslo agreements. These agreements are recognized by all the world. Now comes Hamas and says that it does not recognize agreements. - Thats Palestinian problem.

Actually I would think YOU are the Palestinian problem.

 

[500]

Actually I would think YOU are the Palestinian problem.

Typical for Arabs: always blame the others, never themselves. Thats why Arab countries in such a poor condition.

 

[Safriz]

The thing is that jews from around the world can work in Israeli defence forces....Giving them a sense of belonging towards Israel after they have done it..whether Israel really needs to do so? I dont know.....Then they say Religion should not be made a tool for recruitment...Its being done in Israel.
The down side is that people who have never come across a Palestinian and are not accustomed to Israeli-Palestinian politics find themselves slap bang in the middle of one of the worlds most sensitive conflict zone...
Ever wondered why Israeli soldiers appear to behave odd? Because many of them are there because they are jews from another country serving mother Israel..They are not locals..They dont know how to behave....To many of them who have seen an arab only on the tele..Arab is a monster deserves to be shot on first sight....To them its something like movie and they are there for action...No wonder many of them are trigger happy for the fun of it...

courtesy of another thread
http://www.defence.pk/forums/genera...ible-join-muslim-armed-foced.html#post2046456


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