Featured 5 Rounds of Failed Talks & Indian Army Prepares for Long Haul: The Implications

[Joe Shearer]

@Joe Shearer

Have you been an army officer by career, out of curiosity?

No, regrettably. The only ex-serviceman on the Indian side is someone with whom I am not on speaking terms, @third eye. I got my professional designation due to my service in defence production, specifically, in aerospace.

 

[Dark1]

More than that, he's the wrong man for the job.

The BJP, with its tin ear for these things, deliberately chose a counter-insurgency specialist for the position of Army chief. Counter-insurgency DOES NOT train you for war; it is a distraction and a blind alley for a soldier. You need a gendarmerie, a formation between an armed police and a military, to do it, and that is something that Pakistan has done pretty well.

It is this skewed orientation of his that makes Rawat a dangerous choice for Army chief. That, and the tail that he will inevitably bring up in his wake.

Not the sort of people we want to see facing the PLA.

Well i disagree with most of what you have written.
Counter insurgency experience cannot be a drawback for being in command. Its like saying a US general who has served in Afghanistan is disqualified from heading the American army.
2ndly no need to suck up to the Pakistanis, their results in past wars or counter insurgency is pretty poor.
As for the Chinese, India has no practical plan on the ground. Modi tried diplomacy but the Chinese are playing the long game from the 50s, where India is a opponent. Nothing any Indian government does can prevent a indo China conflict, as the Chinese have a sense of entitlement, which is on full display now.
And rawat had lots of predecessors who kicked the ball into either the civilians court or into the future.
Modi has in parallel atleast started getting the border roads completed.
But deterrence along a 4000 km border with China can never be about the border infrastructure. India has to extract a price from the Chinese at some point or the slicing goes on forever. Basically put the fear in them. At the moment they have delusions of grandeur because of military superiority. They haven't learnt anything from the american experience fighting wars.

 

[Yasser76]

Just a minor correction ->

It's not just India which is preparing for a long haul,
Even China & PLA is doing the same.

We will force China to move substantial presence away from it's eastern border.

Eastern border!? Hhahahahahahaha! With who!?

China will send men and armour which it has plenty of. East is a naval and air battle. Absolutely no way India can match a Chinese and Pakistani force build up.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Counter insurgency experience cannot be a drawback for being in command. Its like saying a US general who has served in Afghanistan is disqualified from heading the American army.

There is a difference between the way the Americans undertake counter-insurgency and the way we do. When you start by drawing that comparison, you have already betrayed a complete ignorance of the comparative methodology. The US general serving in Afghanistan has not abandoned his entire experience in other theatres; they combine all when they are asked to lead the American Army.

 

[Joe Shearer]

2ndly no need to suck up to the Pakistanis, their results in past wars or counter insurgency is pretty poor.

They have their act together; we don't. Where did you see the sucking up, btw?

 

[Joe Shearer]

As for the Chinese, India has no practical plan on the ground. Modi tried diplomacy but the Chinese are playing the long game from the 50s, where India is a opponent. Nothing any Indian government does can prevent a indo China conflict, as the Chinese have a sense of entitlement, which is on full display now.

All right, so now the logic is clear.

We have no practical plan on the ground. So we appoint at this point of time a man who has displayed no ability at planning or staff capability, and has served in the RR and in 19 Division. His substantive Army command was in Southern Command, obviously the best place from where to pick up an appreciation of what the Indian Army faces and might face in Ladakh or in the east.

Crystal clear reasoning.

 

[Joe Shearer]

If losing half their country in 13 days and losing siachin in 84 are examples of having their act together, not the type of acts i want India to emulate.

Ah, yes, standard put-downs that ignore their present state of readiness for war, and their present preparedness for warfare against us in all theatres, not to mention ignoring their visible success in the north-west.

Some Pakistani troll might retaliate by citing our failures in the western sector in 71, our failures in Sri Lanka with the IPKF and our present struggle to put up a credible defence against an enemy that exceeds our capabilities in every single sphere. Are you sure that, if that happens, these are the acts that you want India to emulate?

 

[Joe Shearer]

Though i concede their propaganda wing is making good strides. India is frankly too large to care about propaganda , though we do make half hearted attempts at it.

Do your present efforts have anything to do with it?

 

[Dark1]

All right, so now the logic is clear.

We have no practical plan on the ground. So we appoint at this point of time a man who has displayed no ability at planning or staff capability, and has served in the RR and in 19 Division. His substantive Army command was in Southern Command, obviously the best place from where to pick up an appreciation of what the Indian Army faces and might face in Ladakh or in the east.

Crystal clear reasoning.

You are arguing from a preset mindset. Nothing i say will effect it.
This guy was in jk and eastern sector, during times of insurgency. Since India cant create wars to satisfy experience requirements, thats what we get. He might not be the best , but in India seniority matters in promotion and very few cases of generals being passed over for the top job.
Your reasoning is so weak that i shudder to imagine you served in the army in a substantive post.
And its fascinating that you think that one guy who served as chief for a couple of years ,has the authority to steer our defense policy single handedly.

 

[Dark1]

Do your present efforts have anything to do with it?

You are losing the plot. And the argument.

 

[Joe Shearer]

You are losing the plot. And the argument.

You should be the last one to be bothered, in that case.

 

[Joe Shearer]

This guy was in jk and eastern sector, during times of insurgency. Since India cant create wars to satisfy experience requirements, thats what we get. He might not be the best , but in India seniority matters in promotion and very few cases of generals being passed over for the top job.

When was he in the east? And as far as seniority goes, he superseded two generals with superior credentials. How did you pull the seniority bit when he is one of maybe three cases where people superseded their seniors and got to be Chief?

Now who's lost the plot?

 

[Dark1]

When was he in the east? And as far as seniority goes, he superseded two generals with superior credentials. How did you pull the seniority bit when he is one of maybe three cases where people superseded their seniors and got to be Chief?

Now who's lost the plot?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nd...-next-army-chief-1638999?amp=1&akamai-rum=off
From your favorite website,
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nd...-next-army-chief-1638999?amp=1&akamai-rum=off

"Sources said Lt General Praveen Bakshi, the senior-most officer who was superseded, is an armoured corps officer having spent most of his career in Jodhpur. He had other, less significant operational tenures in Jammu and Kashmir as Colonel Planning in Delta Force in Doda and as Staff Officer to the Army Commander North. Lt General Hariz meanwhile was said to have no significant operational area experience."

I guess you would prefer a armoured guy to a infantry guy with experience in both the western eastern sectors. Guess bhakshi's experience in tanks would be more useful in the Himalayas ?

Stop embarrassing yourself and more importantly the IA.

 

[Joe Shearer]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ndtv.com/india-news/lt-gen-bipin-rawat-named-next-army-chief-1638999?amp=1&akamai-rum=off
From your favorite website,
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ndtv.com/india-news/lt-gen-bipin-rawat-named-next-army-chief-1638999?amp=1&akamai-rum=off

"Sources said Lt General Praveen Bakshi, the senior-most officer who was superseded, is an armoured corps officer having spent most of his career in Jodhpur. He had other, less significant operational tenures in Jammu and Kashmir as Colonel Planning in Delta Force in Doda and as Staff Officer to the Army Commander North. Lt General Hariz meanwhile was said to have no significant operational area experience."

I guess you would prefer a armoured guy to a infantry guy with experience in both the western eastern sectors. Guess bhakshi's experience in tanks would be more useful in the Himalayas ?

Stop embarrassing yourself and more importantly the IA.

My question was about your stating that Rawat served in the east. You still haven't answered.

As for tanks, you may not have seen the numerous references to the Chinese deployment of light tanks in east Ladakh. You do not seem to have noticed that the PLA deployed tanks earlier as well, in battle.

Finally, your basic point about seniority trumping supersession is disproved by these quotations that you have dug up (I don't go to the NDTV.com web-site, and have no idea how you concluded that it is my favourite).

Now - will you please let me off the hook?

 

[Dark1]

My question was about your stating that Rawat served in the east. You still haven't answered.

As for tanks, your inflated self-esteem prevents you from having seen the numerous references to the Chinese deployment of light tanks in east Ladakh. Since, again, you have come into this with no obvious information or knowledge about the Indian Army that you are so keen should not be embarrassed, you do not seem to know that the PLA deployed tanks earlier as well, in battle.

Finally, your basic point about seniority trumping supersession is disproved by these quotations that you have dug up (I don't go to the NDTV.com web-site, and have no idea how you concluded that it is my favourite).

Now - will you please take your half-baked information and your over-baked ego and go back to Jhandewalan Extension and report failure?

Haha.
Apologies to the others for this exchange.