Amidst a raging debate over the celebration of Tipu Sultan's birth anniversary, Jnanpith award-winning playwright Girish Karnad received a death threat via an anonymous Twitter handle on Thursday, where he has been warned that he "will meet the same end like Kalburgi" for his praise of 18th century ruler.
India Today Television's consulting editor Rajdeep Sardesai spoke to Girish Karnad about the controversy surrounding Tipu Sultan.
Excerpts from the interview:
Q. Do you regret your remarks on Tipu Sultan, especially when you called for the Bengaluru airport to be renamed after Tipu?
A. I'm sad that there is controversy, because that was not the intention. I just made a casual remark that I would have liked before the international airport was started. If it would have been named after Tipu Sultan, because he was born in Devanahalli. That's all I said. What is controversial about it? I did not say that the name of the airport should be changed, although even television reporters seem to have got it wrong. Yesterday I was being interviewed, they said, "Oh you said this." I said, "No I did not say this." There's nothing to regret. What I regret is a controversy created over nothing.
Q. They why have you apologised? If there is nothing to apologise for, is it under specific pressure, under some kind of intimidation?
A. I apologised because some of the people in the administration of the state, I would not mention their names, said to me that the anger will go down and things will become more controlable if you just explain to them that you did not make the statement. So I apologised only for the hurt caused, I did not apologise for my statement.
Q. You said that your remarks on Tipu were casual, but wasn't it also a bit misguided? Especially since he is a polarising figure in Karnataka. Some see him as a tyrant, others as a patriot.
A. Well, I don't care. I call him a patriot. In fact, I would not use the word 'patriot', I think he was a great king, he was a great thinker, a great strategist, and he did so much for Karnataka. I stand by what I said. I admire him. I think he is one of the best Kannadigas we had in the last 500 years, after the fall of Vijaynagar. And how much he has done for the state, I don't need to repeat it, it's all been said.
Q. But there in another side to the Tipu historiography, which sees him as someone who persecuted Hindus. How do you respond to that? Because that is also at the core of this debate.
A. Yes, but he also slaughtered Moplas. The Moplas were not Hindus, they were Muslims. The rules of warfare in the 18th century were very different from what it is today. Kerala, Coorg, Mysore and Maharashtra were all considered separate countries. People now protest as an Indian, but no. That's why I called him a Kannadiga. Now, he has got an all India reputation. He was certainly ruthless in many of his movements. But then so were everyone else. Marathas were ruthless. That was what all armies did. I'm not blaming Marathas or Tipu. You can't judge Tipu now, in the 20th century for doing what he did in the 17th century. But what you can admire him for is what he brought to the country, what he brought to Karnataka.
Q. But the fact is that the Karnataka government chooses to honour him with this jayanti. Isn't it entering dangerous territory? They even got the date wrong, his birthday is November 20 and they announced a jayanti on November 10.
A. That's for the state to decide, it's not my concern. It's for the chief minister to decide. I do not celebrate birthday's at home, I do not believe in celebrations.
Q. Don't you see this as a sign of ugly vote bank politics, pitting Hindu groups against Muslim groups?
A. I won't comment on it. I'm sure they have their responsibilities, they have their obligations, they have their games to play. We all play games and the state chief minister must have his games and strategies to play. Fair enough. I'm not going to advice them.
Q. Don't you think the Karnataka government should have more useful things to do than celebrating a Tipu Jayanti? This is a state with agrarian distress and farmer suicides.
A. Maybe. But I'm not interested, it does not concern me. I don't want to comment on it.
Q. You don't want to comment on the Tipu Jayanti organised by the state. The fact though is that you have received death threats for your comments, is that what worries you? Anyone who expresses an alternate view gets attacked in extremely violent terms.
A. Absolutely. Forget Girish Karnad, the kind of language which was used in Bihar by political leaders was even worse. I have not yet been abused so badly. I'm not on Twitter or Facebook. Every writer must have a right to express himself, that's all. I have not done any physical harm to anyone. A person who does not like Tipu, has the right to write a play about him and celebrate him or attack him, as they like.
Q. There are those who would say that you have deliberately offended sentiments of a section of Hindus and provoked them. How do you respond?
A. In Karnataka there are several plays on Tipu, all admiring him. I wan not the first one. He is a folk hero in Karnataka. In fact, the first play I saw of him was when I was seven or eight years old. Even small town playwrights were writing about him. He is a folk hero.
Q. I take your point, but you also stirred another controversy when you suggested if Tipu Sultan was a Hindu ruler, there would not have been such outrage. Do you stick to that?
A. Yes, indeed so. He did everything. I said that if he was a Hindu ruler, he would be worshipped, like Shivaji is worshipped today. What Tipu did for Karnataka is what Shivaji has done for Maharashtra. He brought the country together, the whole of Maharashtra was splintered. This is exactly what Tipu did in Karnataka.
Q. Maharashtra has a Shivaji Jayanati, should Karnataka have a Tipu Jayanti? Or or are you against the idea of a Shivaji Jayanti?
A. Well I don't know if they should have a Shivaji Jayanti or they should not have a Shivaji Jayanti. It is upto them, as I said.
Q. A member of Parliament from Mysore, Pratap Sinha has also got death threats, allegedly from an Islamic group, on the Tipu Sultan issue. Is this now cutting both ways?
A. Yes, even that is wrong. Who justifies it? That's precisely what I'm saying. Pratap Sinha is a very intelligent journalist, he has a right to say what he wants. You should allow the discussion to go on.
Q. 20 years ago, if you would have spoken out in this manner on Tipu, do you think the reaction would be an exaggerated one?
A. It seems like that because of the preponderance of Twitter and Facebook. Hatred was there even 20 years ago and people were prejudiced, but they did not immediately put it on social media. And now also the preponderance of television, the channels are short of material and they will put in any kind of nonsense on air.
Q. You think there is a deliberate attempt being made to polarise the society? Instances like Tipu are only being used to create a divide between Hindus and Muslims?
A. Yes, indeed so. In fact you know that communal riots are being used in our country, not just in Karnataka, to win elections. Riots are being organised by people in power. I don't have to spell them out to you. People know if you organise a communal riot, the communities form two different camps and then you win an election. This is the strategy which is being used, and has been used in the last 20-30 years.
Q. Has this controversy made you a little more fearful about what you can or cannot say? What next for Girish Karnad?
A. Your representative was asking me why didn't you mention what you are going to do now. I will tell you what I'm going to do now: I'll take a some gin, some lime and tonic water, pour myself a long nice drink and relax.
