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28 Nato oil tankers set ablaze in Islamabad

Ernicht cool it just report him



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Jigs Pakistan is involved, it does not expect its personnel's and its civilians to be killed in that manner. I'm sorry Jigs if this happened in your country I'm sure the Turkish people will go up in arms
Or go up against the United states for jeopardising the War in terror.
Pakistan will do what it can to defend its people and sovereignty like any honest country would including turkey.


Of course not. It does except to lose civilians to the TTP and other terror cells though right ? Just like Turkey expects to lose civilians to the PKK. Do you think Iraq should attack us for crossing into their territory though ?
 
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You know why we do cross border operations into Iraq ? It is because the Iraq government has no say or no influence in the Kurdish region. They have their own government that operates their own army. This is where the PKK also operate (the Kurdish government there says we can't do anything about it ) So we move in and conduct operations.

Let me put it to you this way if a group of 100 terrorists attack a number of European targets and overwhelming evidence points to pakistan. At which point pakistan says we are doing what we can but if you try to conduct operations we will attack you too.


You can quickly see from the above the clash of sides here. Choices have to begin being made. On both sides. Does NATO or the U.S. take things into their own hands or do we keep doing what we are doing any risk more attacks ?

With Pakistan it has to do with with public opinion against operations there which have resulted in civilian deaths and that is certainly bad. But does Pakistan want to also paint NATO as a bad guy ? How far does pakistan want to flex its muscle and try to deal with terror cells in their country that want to attack western nations or if at all since they are now against NATO at that point.

I think its more of a black mail here

see this video Jigs

 
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You know why we do cross border operations into Iraq ? It is because the Iraq government has no say or no influence in the Kurdish region. They have their own government that operates their own army. This is where the PKK also operate (the Kurdish government there says we can't do anything about it ) So we move in and conduct operations.

Let me put it to you this way if a group of 100 terrorists attack a number of European targets and overwhelming evidence points to pakistan. At which point pakistan says we are doing what we can but if you try to conduct operations we will attack you too.


You can quickly see from the above the clash of sides here. Choices have to begin being made. On both sides. Does NATO or the U.S. take things into their own hands or do we keep doing what we are doing any risk more attacks ?

With Pakistan it has to do with with public opinion against operations there which have resulted in civilian deaths and that is certainly bad. But does Pakistan want to also paint NATO as a bad guy ? How far does pakistan want to flex its muscle and try to deal with terror cells in their country that want to attack western nations or if at all since they are now against NATO at that point.

its absolutely bullsh*t to say that 100 people of pakistanis kill the europeans?? and escape to pakistan, but the 100,0000 people are attacking the europeans at will and there europeans are hiding in snake, you expect to believe this bullsh*t, here the pakistani soldiers are dieing and the turkish soldiers of yours at nato are smoking weed?? enjoying life there??, u r the ones to die there first, its your war not ours
 
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Of course not. It does except to lose civilians to the TTP and other terror cells though right ? Just like Turkey expects to lose civilians to the PKK. Do you think Iraq should attack us for crossing into their territory though ?

You mean by TTp Taliban ?
 
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what evidence????, man atleast in this crowded place, every body is waiting for you to bring those spectaclur evidence to trill us???

You can dig in several old threads where we already had these discussions. Tell me one thing... when India had been asking Pakistan to stop terrorists camps within its soil where were you?... Now you do see that even after a year PA is still fighting them out from their safe havens.

Do you really need proof from someone else to cleanup your backyards?
 
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This supply blockage is taking a sharp turn against Pakistan's commitment to help NATO for WoT. With the supplies cutoff and lack of security for the moving supplies, it would be difficult for NATO to keep up with its supplies.

Could this mean that they may force GoP to take over the responsibility to secure the routes for their supplies through Pakistan?

I wonder what the indian government would do if NATO often attacked their territory and killed innocent citizens (lets say the citizens were all hindus as india wouldnt care if their Muslims got killed) and also if NATO killed 3 indian troops.

what would india do? what would any country do?

Every country on earth values its citizens and its troops more than foreign troops.
 
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You can dig in several old threads where we already had these discussions. Tell me one thing... when India had been asking Pakistan to stop terrorists camps within its soil where were you?... Now you do see that even after a year PA is still fighting them out from their safe havens.

Do you really need proof from someone else to cleanup your backyards?

first stop your nonsense, first stop your terrorists camps in kashmir for bharati soldiers, you make kashmiris torture every day, go and have a nice day at human rights watch office tomorrow..
 
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Of course not. It does except to lose civilians to the TTP and other terror cells though right ? Just like Turkey expects to lose civilians to the PKK. Do you think Iraq should attack us for crossing into their territory though ?

Theres a difference between TTP and PKK.

TTP was just formed in 2007 as a result of this war OF terror.

This war OF terror caused a lot of misery for Pakistan. Theres no winning it. Pakistani civilians are being killed, Pakistani troops are being killed all because of war OF terror.

Before the US invasion of Afghanistan, we never saw anything like this in Pakistan.

Before the US invasion of Afghanistan, TTP never existed and there was not even one single case of suicide boming in Pakistani soil.

Its time to end this senseless never ending war that is causing the destruction of Pakistan.

The original Afghan Taliban was never Pakistan's enemy and was never America's enemy. The US blames OBL and Al Qaeda for 9/11 attacks not the original Afghan Taliban.
 
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I think its more of a black mail here

see this video Jigs

YouTube - Rachel Maddow- U.S. testing war against Pakistan

I saw it. I try to watch Rachel Maddow when i can as MSNBC is one of the few good news networks here. I understand what she is saying and agree. We must also understand though the war isn't just in Afghanistan and has shifted into Pakistan as well.

Here read this article.


US expands Afghan war arena into northwest Pakistan
DEBKAfile Exclusive Analysis October 2, 2010, 11:59 AM (GMT+02:00)


Nine-year deal for Pakistan to serve US-led NATO forces fighting in Afghanistan as their primary logistics and supply base - while pursuing competing goals - run aground? This may be so after US officials intimated in the last three days that more remote-controlled aircraft and helicopters were being relocated from other Afghan sectors to the new front opening up now against Taliban strongholds in the Pakistan tribal area of North Waziristan.

Islamabad has responded by blocking the main frontier crossing to NATO supply convoy on Oct. 2, for the second day and refusing to stop armed Taliban fighters torching the trucks after a US cross-border air strike killed three Pakistan soldiers at a frontier post Thursday.

Even after some 30 Afghanistan-bound oil tankers were set ablaze Friday, Oct. 1, US air strikes over North Waziristan were redoubled that night and early Saturday, destroying a stronghold of the highly effective Haqqani network and killing at least six of its members.
debkafile's military sources do not rule out the US drive into North Waziristan escalating into ground incursions, especially if it is proved that Islamist terrorists are being trained and directed to carry out strikes inside America from networks sheltering in northwest Pakistan.

Thursday, Sept. 30 debkafile reported:
A new crisis in relations between Islamabad and Washington was triggered by the recent US tactical escalation from drones to helicopters for destroying insurgent and terrorist concentrations in Pakistan's lawless North Waziristan province, debkafile's military sources report. Pakistan had accepted the drone attacks but, even after they were nearly doubled to 21 this month, the high-flying unmanned aircraft were not up to their mission - especially against the Haqqani network.
Early Thursday, Sept. 30, Islamabad was angry enough to block a convoy of dozens of NATO trucks at the Torkham check post on the Khyber pass into Afghanistan, accusing NATO of killing three Pakistan frontier troops in a helicopter strike against a military checkpoint close to the border. The "hot pursuit" pretext was roughly rejected.
Through their many ups and downs during the nine-year Afghanistan war, Pakistan has served as NATO's main supply base for fuel, ammunition, spare parts and other provisions. An average 580 trucks with goods imported through Karachi and other Pakistani ports roll through Torkham west of Peshawar every day.

The resort to helicopters was ordered by the new Afghanistan commander, Gen. David Petraeus. He soon saw that the 30,000-troop surge was not up to turning the tide of the war against the Taliban - mainly because the bulk of its men, supplies and training facilities are located on the Pakistani side of the border in North Waziristan. He therefore petitioned President Barack Obama for permission to shift the brunt of combat into Pakistan and begin using helicopters against these targets.

The general explained that the Predator and Reaper drones were unequal to the task of demolishing large bases or catching insurgent forces on the move into Afghanistan or on their way back to their Pakistani havens. The capabilities of these high-tech weapons are limited. Needed now were droves of conventional helicopters able to scatter and fly close enough to the ground to chase and pin down small groups of insurgents on the move.

Before assenting to Gen. Petraeus' request, the White House made a final effort to persuade the Pakistani government and its military commanders to go into decisive action against the Taliban concentrations sheltering in North Waziristan.

They had little hope of a positive reply because the foremost US war target is the Haqqani network, the largest and best organized insurgent militia fighting NATO today. This militia's 12,000 men fight under the command of Maulvi Jalaluddin Haqqani and his son Sirajuddin Haqqani. It maintains independent sources of supply, funding and recruits and is protected by its close operational and intelligence links with Pakistan's powerful Inter-Services Intelligence - ISI - service.
The Haqqani network enjoys ISI protection as Islamabad's trump card for guaranteeing Kabul is governed by a pro-Pakistan regime after US troops start pulling out of Afghanistan in August 2011.

An ally\ied Afghanistan would give Pakistan the military edge over India, its strategists calculate, whereas its loss would be an unacceptable strategic setback.

At the same time, no one in Islamabad sneezes at the great benefits gained from good relations with the United States. Washington keeps Pakistan safe from war with India and a good flow of some $2 billion per year to keep its economy from breaking down. So when American drones attacked the Haqqani network in North Waziristan, its rulers gritted their teeth and kept quiet for as long as the damage was small enough for the Haqqanis to sustain.

But American cross-border Apache raids were another matter. The first helicopter attack over Pakistan on Monday, Sept. 27, killed 50 Taliban fighters, most of them members of the Haqqani network. The second, the following day, hit a Haqqani base in the Kurram district of North Waziristan. The third hit the wrong target, killing three Pakistani soldiers at a military check point near the Afghanistan border.
That was too much for Islamabad. Without even a word to the visiting US Central Intelligence Agency chief Leon Panetta, the NATO convoy was blocked at the border and the supply route threatened until the Americans promised to give up using helicopters and targeting the Haqqani network for "hot pursuit" operations.

Washington has not reacted publicly to the Pakistan demand. But Saturday, Oct. 2, US military sources disclosed that more troops were being piled up on the frontier against North Waziristan. Islamabad does not look like taking increased US encroachments of its territory lying down for now. The US command's promise of a joint probe with Pakistan to assign guilt for the killing of three Pakistani frontier will not be enough to keep Pakistani tempers at bay.
 
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Theres a difference between TTP and PKK.

TTP was just formed in 2007 as a result of this war OF terror.

This war OF terror caused a lot of misery for Pakistan. Theres no winning it. Pakistani civilians are being killed, Pakistani troops are being killed all because of war OF terror.

Before the US invasion of Afghanistan, we never saw anything like this in Pakistan.

Before the US invasion of Afghanistan, TTP never existed and there was not even one single case of suicide boming in Pakistani soil.

Its time to end this senseless never ending war that is causing the destruction of Pakistan.

The original Afghan Taliban was never Pakistan's enemy and was never America's enemy. The US blames OBL and Al Qaeda for 9/11 attacks not the original Afghan Taliban.

Well this war can not be won and the U.S. knows this. You can not defeat terrorism it is impossible. The Main U.S. goal is to hit the Taliban safe havens and stabilize Afghanistan. It worked with Iraq and now the same is trying to be done in Afghanistan with the surge but unlike Iraq. The taliban in Afghanistan operate in Pakistan as well and this is causing considerable problems.
 
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Question is not why 28 of those oil tankers were set to fire, question is why the remaining ones are left un-torched?

Question also is why did the six Pakistanis die as well? How stupid are our people?
 
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its absolutely bullsh*t to say that 100 people of pakistanis kill the europeans?? and escape to pakistan, but the 100,0000 people are attacking the europeans at will and there europeans are hiding in snake, you expect to believe this bullsh*t, here the pakistani soldiers are dieing and the turkish soldiers of yours at nato are smoking weed?? enjoying life there??, u r the ones to die there first, its your war not ours

I see we have resorted to trolling rather then a debate. Good day to you sir.
 
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I wonder what the indian government would do if NATO often attacked their territory and killed innocent citizens (lets say the citizens were all hindus as india wouldnt care if their Muslims got killed) and also if NATO killed 3 indian troops.

what would india do? what would any country do?

Every country on earth values its citizens and its troops more than foreign troops.

I can't tell you what Indian govt will do... and neither am I here to represent my govt... I am speaking for myself.

First of all don't get religion into this argument (It is always an obsession for any Pakistani member to bring in religion to all arguments). I feel that if India were in a war on terror, it would operate with full co-operation against terror and not just just as a supply route for NATO. Terrorism is a problem that you face in the same way as we do, and we will do whatever it takes as long as the final objective is achieved no matter what the modality is.

Tell me one thing...Are you helping the cause of WoT by blocking supplies and not providing adequate protection to their supplies. Once you are committed you are committed... and frankly I haven't seen that being the case in here.
 
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first stop your nonsense, first stop your terrorists camps in kashmir for bharati soldiers, you make kashmiris torture every day, go and have a nice day at human rights watch office tomorrow..

Please stick to the essence of this thread when you present with an argument. This is not a tit for tat game here. Kashmir is an internal security matter and I am sure that our govt's actions are identical to what they would have done in any place else in the country had it been the case. I know why Kashmir is often an easy argument for you guys to slip in.
 
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If the USA and NATO is your enemy then that means your allied with the Taliban, Al Quada and terrorist. This has been a wake up call to me and most americans. Especially on the day that it is being announced that american tourist are going to be attacked in Europe and Mumbai-style attacks are going to take place against Europe and the USA from Pakistan.


Goodbye Pakistan.

US lost 3,000 innocent civilians in the 9/11 attacks.

Pakistan loses more than 3,000 innocent civilians per year as a result of the US invasion of Afghanistan and this never ending war OF terror.

Americans are not living in the battlefield, its the Pakistanis and Afghans who are living in the battlefield and experiencing the war first hand. Americans are partying in clubs on a Saturday night while Pakistanis are worried their kids might get killed during a US drone attack in FATA on a Saturday night.
 
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