22 killed in US missile strike in N Waziristan

[S-2]

There are only four- Jalalabad, Kandahar, Herat, and Mazur-I-Sharif plus the embassy. This is definitive by the Gov't of India.

There is no further list of consulates but would love to be proved wrong. As consulates are official offices they are generally easily found. Please look up the definition of consulate and it's diplomatic functions. I still await claims that provide phone #s, street and city addresses, and/or e-mail points-of-contact. None have yet been provided with this data. Official consulates have all of this information.

 

[roadrunner]

This is funny.

First, Pakistan has always been a part of India pre-1947, where else it would be located now!

Not true at all. It's been discussed enough, you seem to remain in denial.

Prior to the 17th century, the area of Pakistan was never ruled by India for any significant period of time.

Prior to the 17th century, the area of Pakistan was only part of the North west of India (Punjab) for a significant amount of time - not central India, not East India, and not South India.

So overall, whilst Indian Punjab and Pakistani Punjab might have been one unit for quite a while in history, that's as far as the association goes, give or take one or two extrene northwestern states for during some time points.

To say that India and Pakistan have been one unit based on this, throughout history, is like saying China and Greece are the same country because they once were part of the same empire (Mongol).

Second, these problems are coming from your Western border, not Eastern.

I wasn't referring to "those" problems. When the Americans leave Afghanistan, all the problems will revolve around India. But I wasn't referring to tha either!

The only unfortunate part throughout history has been it's invasion from the North-Western direction.

If India was able to, it would have invaded Pakistan long ago. It just never had the ability or belief to pull it off.

 

[belarusian]

I think that the United States does not respect the sovereignty of any muslim country.

Or sovereignty has a different meaning when applied to a muslim country.

There was an agreement made through back channels. There is some kind of hierarchy in Pakistan disconnected from any process of accountability. In fact there is no pretense of democratic accountability.

If you don't at least shoot at the drones then you are forfeiting your sovereignty.

And the same is true with egypt and saudia arabia and jordan and all the muslim "allies."

We have a very weird and unhealthy relationship with Pakistan and it's because you are muslim. We don't see muslim countries as bona fide nation states. You are our allies and our enemies and neutral all at the same time. That makes no sense but it's true.

 

[qsaark]

This is lame excuse.America clearly asked Talibans to give Osama Bin Laden but they did not give OBL so it's Taliban fault.

No, first of all there was (at the time they asked for Osama) and still is (as of today) any proof that Osama or his people were involved in 9/11. Taliban never said 'no', they said, 'show us the proof, and we'll hand over him to you'. I have read the 9/11 commision report, there is not one charge that can actually be proven in the court of law. Taliban showed more self-respect and honour than the boneless commando.

 

[roadrunner]

I think that the United States does not respect the sovereignty of any muslim country.

Or sovereignty has a different meaning when applied to a muslim country.

There was an agreement made through back channels. There is some kind of hierarchy in Pakistan disconnected from any process of accountability. In fact there is no pretense of democratic accountability.

If you don't at least shoot at the drones then you are forfeiting your sovereignty.

And the same is true with egypt and saudia arabia and jordan and all the muslim "allies."

We have a very weird and unhealthy relationship with Pakistan and it's because you are muslim. We don't see muslim countries as bona fide nation states. You are our allies and our enemies and neutral all at the same time. That makes no sense but it's true.

That's true there.

It's an "ally of the moment" relationship.

The US I think (politically) doesn't like Pakistan, and looks down on it, perhaps, as you say, because it's Muslim.

If it were me at the reigns of the Pak leadership, I'd have done a North Korea on the US and done everything with China.

For whatever reason, posterity, or whatever, the Pak leadership finds it suitable to ally with the US.

Under Musharaf and the WoT I can understand this. The US threatened to bomb Pakistan back to the Stone Age unless it complied. So it complied and became an ally.

However, now, the US have what they want. A crook in power, so they don't need to threaten the country into doing what it wants, the bonga will just open his mouth wide and accept it.

I would say the US is a threat to Pakistan. It bullies it into doing what it wants, and therefore it should be regarded as a threat. It probably is, in all honesty.

 

[hasang20]

That's true there.

It's an "ally of the moment" relationship.

The US I think (politically) doesn't like Pakistan, and looks down on it.

If it were me at the reigns of the Pak leadership, I'd have done a North Korea on the US and done everything with China.

For whatever reason, posterity, or whatever, the Pak leadership finds it suitable to ally with the US.

Under Musharaf and the WoT I can understand this. The US threatened to bomb Pakistan back to the Stone Age unless it complied. So it complied and became an ally.

However, now, the US have what they want. A crook in power, so they don't need to threaten the country into doing what it wants.

I would say the US is a threat to Pakistan. It bullies it into doing what it wants, and therefore it should be regarded as a threat. It probably is, in all honesty.

dude no worries since than we didnt have alot of equipment since 02-03 Mushraff really equipped Pakistan with like modern weapons either way US attack us we take India n Israel down with us and Nukes are options we didnt make an army of 712,000 to be treated like that we didnt make balestic missiles to be like that the world must and have to live with Pakistan whether India,Israel n US like it or not they will go Muslim by Muslim and try to kill us all


US will risk all its bases in the whole Middle East and India and Israel to be completely wiped out of the map and a BIG RED DRAGON to be let alive

 

[S-2]

"...and still is (as of today) any proof that Osama or his people were involved in 9/11."

Confessions without duress are admissable-

OBL Admission of Responsibility

Lots of other confessions by his lieutenants prior to this one made in 2004 by da' man himself (where've you been? A cave in FATA?).

Latest are Khalid Sheik Muhammad and Ramzi Binalshibh.

We're after the right guy. If smart he'd surrender, sell the book and movie rights, hire a hot attorney-type like you or a nice Jewish lad from Long Island maybe and kick it-high security style.

He needs to stay visible and in the public eye. That's notably missing of late. You should help OBL secure his relevance once more. It's waning.

 

[qsaark]

"...and still is (as of today) any proof that Osama or his people were involved in 9/11."

Confessions without duress are admissable-

OBL Admission of Responsibility

Lots of other confessions by his lieutenants prior to this one made in 2004 by da' man himself (where've you been? A cave in FATA?).

Latest are Khalid Sheik Muhammad and Ramzi Binalshibh.

We're after the right guy. If smart he'd surrender, sell the book and movie rights, hire a hot attorney-type like you or a nice Jewish lad from Long Island maybe and kick it-high security style.

He needs to stay visible and in the public eye. That's notably missing of late. You should help OBL secure his relevance once more. It's waning.

If you are handed over to Pakistan Police, you'll confess for what has happened before your birth and what is going to happen after your death. Got it? that is how they have made those people confess? Why are those terrorists not handed over to the International Court of Justice? Why instead of prosecuting them as per international laws they were held in Gitmo and were subjected to all kinds of third degree tortures? I have not been in a cave of FATA but you certainly are living in a cave made up of distorted illusions. I don’t give a damn to these fake videos aired by the AlJazeera. AlJazeera network is not located in Tora Bora Caves or in Waziristan. It is located in Qatar, a gulf state friendly to US and happens to host thousands of US troops. Albeit of its physical presence in Qatar and all kind of intel resources at their disposal, US couldn’t even trace how such videos right under their nose reach to AlJazeera (why only to AlJazeera, why not to other networks?), who is responsible? Does it ring some bell? They can get 'credible' intel to launch hellfire on civilians in Pakistan, but cant trace from where the videos are coming into Qatar. He does'n need to stay visible and in the public eye, someone needs him visible as a reason to keep killing muslims.

 

[S-2]

"...that is how they have made those people confess?"

Uh huh...OBL?

Remember "...as of today"?

I'd say you're no less than four years behind the times, maybe more, and backing the wrong horse.

It's him alright and only a complete idiot by 0900 EST 9/11/01 thought otherwise. Oh well...

The trajectories of OBL and my nation were meant to intersect calamitously and they indeed have.

You sound like an apologist for the worthless POS. Are you?

 

[roadrunner]

S-2, the OBL thing is OLD.

I don't think anyone believes it. And those are the non Muslims that don't believe it.

It's only right wing sheep trying to pedal something, like you, that seem to believe it.

 

[S-2]

So you didn't watch his pre-election video in 2004 I presume?

 

[belarusian]

there is an argument that islam is incompatible with democracy.

and in fact islamic countries do not practice democracy.

but maybe islam is incompatible with sovereignty.

in other words not only are you not democratic, you aren't even sovereign states. you aren't nation states.

democracy sovereignty the nation state are western concepts or have a particular meaning in the western context that is not universal. they are not even good things necessarily. just look at the history of western countries. Its just how we think.

it's not fair to judge pakistan by western standards and vice versa.

but there has to be some common standard in order avoid bad things happening to muslims or bad things happening to us. If drone attacks on pakistan is the most creative solution we can find then we are in a lot of trouble even if it is "self-defense."

 

[roadrunner]

there is an argument that islam is incompatible with democracy.

and in fact islamic countries do not practice democracy.

If Pakistan didn't have democracy, it wouldnt be in the state it is in today.

but maybe islam is incompatible with sovereignty.

I don't get your point here. Why should Islam be incompatible with soverignty?

I mean an Islamic country can have a land area controlled by a government, right?

in other words not only are you not democratic, you aren't even sovereign states. you aren't nation states.

Why do you need to be democratic to be a nation state?

democracy sovereignty the nation state are western concepts or have a particular meaning in the western context that is not universal. they are not even good things necessarily. just look at the history of western countries. Its just how we think.

it's not fair to judge pakistan by western standards and vice versa.

but there has to be some common standard in order avoid bad things happening to muslims or bad things happening to us. If drone attacks on pakistan is the most creative solution we can find then we are in a lot of trouble even if it is "self-defense."

Pakistan is that area within its borders. It's an offically recognized country (drawn up by a western power in fact). I think the borders are artificial, but those are the borders.

Whether it's defined as soverign or not, shooting the area up is just a war crime. I think the Pakistani government also have to answer for allowing this.

 

[qsaark]

"...that is how they have made those people confess?"

Uh huh...OBL?

Remember "...as of today"?

I'd say you're no less than four years behind the times, maybe more, and backing the wrong horse.

It's him alright and only a complete idiot by 0900 EST 9/11/01 thought otherwise. Oh well...

The trajectories of OBL and my nation were meant to intersect calamitously and they indeed have.

You sound like an apologist for the worthless POS. Are you?

I am not an apologist for anyone; I consider the 'self-proclaimed so called Jihadists cum warlords' and their 'creators and sponsors' the two sides of a single coin. Moreover, my respect for the law and justice doesn’t allow me to get align to one side without examining the evidence (both hard and circumstantial) that can be proven in the court of law. I am not a deaf or a mute or a mentally disabled who would unconditionally follow every order of His Highness the Uncle Sam.

 

[S-2]

"I consider the 'self-proclaimed so called Jihadists cum warlords' and their 'creators and sponsors' the two sides of a single coin."

God gives each man free will, counselor, on both sides of your so-called "coin". Your moral equivocation doesn't change the relevancy of OBL's admission of guilt-freely offered in October 2004.

You're the one that said there'd been no proof nor did any exist now. I'd pay closer attention to your absolutist use of verbage.