2013 China problems (My feelings living in China from 2011-2013)

[jhungary]

Your original claim is that China's open door policy begin at 1990. My answer is refuting it. Try not to change the topic.


So you will not give the claim a creditable defense, but will take it as the conclusion of Chinese economy?


I am unaware that all US citizens, especially blue collar workers, are supposed to be able to afford housing in Manhattan and Beverly Hills. So I will ask the same thing again. Where did the 90% home ownership rate in China comes from if people can't actually afford houses?

Oh well, Then....

Just an abstract on what you say.

You are saying Economic reform, I am talking about the Open Door Policy.

Chinese economic reform - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Deng's first reforms began in agriculture, a sector long neglected by the Communist Party. By the late 1970s, food supplies and production had become so deficient that government officials were warning that China was about to repeat the "disaster of 1959" - the famines which killed tens of millions during the Great Leap Forward.[9] Deng responded by decollectivizing agriculture and emphasizing the Household-responsibility system, which divided the land of the People's communes into private plots. Farmers were able to keep the land's output after paying a share to the state. This move increased agricultural production, increased the living standards of hundreds of millions of farmers and stimulated rural industry.[10]

Open Door Policy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In China's modern day economic history the Open Door Policy refers to Deng Xiao Ping's visits to the Special Economic Zones (SEZ) in 1992 and his belief that to modernize China's industry and boost its economy it needed to welcome foreign direct investment. After his visit Chinese industry shifted heavily to encourage and support foreign trade & investment. It can be argued this was the turning point that truly started China on the path to being 'The World's Factory'.

So you are shifting, make up your mind, you want to discuss the Chinese Economic reform or the Open door policy??

So you will not give the claim a creditable defense, but will take it as the conclusion of Chinese economy?

I did, go down to the book shop, ask for a history book. Look up the gilded age of US and the Industrial age in the UK.

Man, do I have to do everything for you??

I am unaware that all US citizens, especially blue collar workers, are supposed to be able to afford housing in Manhattan and Beverly Hills. So I will ask the same thing again. Where did the 90% home ownership rate in China comes from if people can't actually afford houses?

Then I am unaware that in City like New York and Beverly Hills, Blue collar job does not exist. Otherwise how there are worker there if they are not live in the City?? So, if my car broke down in New York City, do I need to tow my car to New Jersey to get it fix?

On the other hand, I did not see any reference on your point, so, am I suppose to take your word for it?? Oh wait, Reference for you people do not exist, our reference is merely Brainwash information from our media........

 

[eddieInUK]

Very nice article and very true. The PPT slides can represent the problems in general. The environment issues should also be included. Hopefully the new leaders with humanity background can take good care of them. Any Indians could propose similar problems list ? Or any other developing countries ?

 

[tranquilium]

Oh well, Then....
Just an abstract on what you say.
You are saying Economic reform, I am talking about the Open Door Policy.
Chinese economic reform - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Open Door Policy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
So you are shifting, make up your mind, you want to discuss the Chinese Economic reform or the Open door policy??

Uh-huh, so on one hand, there is the economic reform, which is the official starting date of the economic transformation and the other is a re-affirmation of these economic policy. The former involves actual changes in the policy and the latter involves no change. So, which is more relevant to your theory that "it takes 20 years to boil over"?

I did, go down to the book shop, ask for a history book. Look up the gilded age of US and the Industrial age in the UK.
Man, do I have to do everything for you??

Well, I have presented defense and justification for my claims. It is not up to me to defend your claims.

Then I am unaware that in City like New York and Beverly Hills, Blue collar job does not exist. Otherwise how there are worker there if they are not live in the City?? So, if my car broke down in New York City, do I need to tow my car to New Jersey to get it fix?
On the other hand, I did not see any reference on your point, so, am I suppose to take your word for it?? Oh wait, Reference for you people do not exist, our reference is merely Brainwash information from our media........

So let me ask this, where does blue collar workers live in New York? The answer is that they don't live in Manhattan. They live in less expensive area and travel to work. The same thing applies to Beijing. People with less income will leave farther away from downtown where the price is the highest and travel to work.

 

[cnleio]

This thread just discuss the problem of China house price rising, and easily lead to other troubles of China economy development.

Pls remember today China still the biggest developing country, in the future whether China could successfully develop as a powerful & rich developed country, or slide to "world facotry" of un-rich slave nation like South-America countries. The KEY is how to deal with trillions of hot money like M2 printed by CCP government, also how to controll today China high house price.
Now most Chinese family owe banks' house loans(owe ￥200,000 ~ ￥1,000,000), they really owe trillions of money here and the banks owned by CCP loan out too many money of house loans to China property developers and Chinese family.

If the bubble burst in China, everyone go to HELL~!!!

How many members here ever bought house/apartment in China ? I did.
How many members here ever sold house/apartment in China ? I did.
How many members here clearly understand China house price rise during 2005~2013? I did.
In China 2009 spent ￥100,000, 2012 own a 140m2 worth more than ￥1million house in some provincial capital city(My 1st house), no owe bank loans. I did


1991 ~ 2012 China GDP & M2 money maps
(2008-2012,Wen printed too many M2 money and lead to RMB Internal devaluation,at the same time China house price rise 1.5~2x times during 4 years)
Unit: Trillion U.S dollar Red line: China government M2 release Blue line: China GDP

2013.02 Table of China top30 high house price cities
Red word: Current house price,unite: ￥/centare
Black word: 2012 disposable income by local resident, unite: ￥
Green word: Local house price growth ratio 2012 vs 2011

 

[sweetgrape]

Any countries have their own problems in the process of development, China too, We don't need to dodge them, but face it and try to solve it!!!
Below are problems of china, I thinK:
High house price(Root cause:Government control the land and land policy is not flexible), corruption, most of companies still in low level.......
Too much, China is different with others, many problems must be solved under the guidance of government, or it is very hard to push forward, just hope government can handle these positively......

 

[jhungary]

Uh-huh, so on one hand, there is the economic reform, which is the official starting date of the economic transformation and the other is a re-affirmation of these economic policy. The former involves actual changes in the policy and the latter involves no change. So, which is more relevant to your theory that "it takes 20 years to boil over"?

Dude, I never say or assert anything about economic reform, you started saying this and I always talked about the "Open Door Policy"

I am just telling you to make up your mind, if you want to talk about economic reform and "the great leap" I can change my topic and talk to you about that.

Well, I have presented defense and justification for my claims. It is not up to me to defend your claims.

Dude, you refuse to read the stuff that I reference to is not my problem mate. But you cannot say my point is unsupported because you refuse to read the stuff I reference to.

Let me put it this way, here it is

Gilded Age - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Industrial Revolution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Well, read it or not is up to you, it's not my problem.

So let me ask this, where does blue collar workers live in New York? The answer is that they don't live in Manhattan. They live in less expensive area and travel to work. The same thing applies to Beijing. People with less income will leave farther away from downtown where the price is the highest and travel to work.

lol, so are you compare Beijing to Manhattan? A Metro City vs a Borough.

There may not be Blue Collar living in Manhattan (actually I don't know, I am not going to fly to New York and do a survey then and there, there may be some living in Manhattan, who's know??)

But you are saying there are not going to be Blue Collar in the whole city of Beijing? So if I my car broke down in Beijing, I need to tow my car to another city to fix them?? LOL Or there is a law in China that forbid people work blue collar to buy home in Beijing.

The cheapest Beijing flat I saw is being sold for 500,000 RMB, a modest value but will be 20 years for a normal blue collar to work for. So should Blue collar stop dreaming about homing in Beijing altogether?? Eh?

Once again, I have no see any supporting reference, and you say you are an Engineering Student, you of all people should know how people treat a pseudo-academic article WITHOUT reference right? Down the bin they go.



Well, I have presented defense and justification for my claims. It is not up to me to defend your claims.



So let me ask this, where does blue collar workers live in New York? The answer is that they don't live in Manhattan. They live in less expensive area and travel to work. The same thing applies to Beijing. People with less income will leave farther away from downtown where the price is the highest and travel to work.[/QUOTE]

 

[cnleio]

2001 - 2011 China,GuangZhou city house price (date old, 2013 higher)
Blue line: New house price,unite:￥/centiare
Green line: Average house price, unite: ￥/centiare

2002-2012 China,ShenZhen house price (data old, 2013 higher)
Blue line: House price rise ratio
Black word: ￥/centiare

1999 - 2010 China,ShangHai house price (data old, 2013 more higher close to ￥30,000)
Blue line: Average house price, unite: ￥/centiare
Red line: Local average salary, unite: ￥/month

Other hundreds of cities in China, also house price growing during 2001 - 2013(average 3x ~4x times), i can say except 2008 World Economic Crises China house price ever dropped then Wen start to printed trillions of M2 into to house market, bad result lead to 2009 - 2013 average rise 1.5~2x times of house price in China.

Some member here doubt my words, if there'r no big soap bubbles in China house price during recent years, i can say u r blind~! The best merit for Hu and Wen just blowout the biggest house price bubbles in the history of PRC. Yep Wen and his family owned over 1billion wealth (due to the family wealth news, CCP government block the internet of mainland access to 《New York Times&#12299 during ten years as Chinese Premier and the same time ten years China house price rapid development.


Before China could develop as a developed country, our ppl's house price had been over some developed countries, and the ratio of house prices and wages also much higher than it.

Most Chinese family maybe 80% owe the house loans from CCP's banks, Now the high house price is the big BOMB hang on the Chinese heads, if it not BANG the average house price will keep growing might reach 15,000~20,000/centiare, even the small town could reach nearly 8,000~100,000/centiare. But still today in most cities of China ￥7,000 - ￥20,000/month belongs to fat salary only few ppl can reach the wage, and more and more family need save the money to pay for the house loans by CCP banks no free money to investment and purchase goods.

 

[JSCh]

不看广告看疗效.
How did the Chinese housing price/market rise so much if it is not affordable? Foreign investment? Print money? why it did not show up elsewhere in other sector?

 

[cnleio]

不看广告看疗效.
How did the Chinese housing price/market rise so much if it is not affordable? Foreign investment? Print money? why it did not show up elsewhere in other sector?

M2 print money and the hot money into the market by banks' house loans, coz the government boot local house price growing and ppl need to borrow more and more money from the banks.

 

[cnleio]

Any countries have their own problems in the process of development, China too, We don't need to dodge them, but face it and try to solve it!!!
Below are problems of china, I thinK:
High house price(Root cause:Government control the land and land policy is not flexible), corruption, most of companies still in low level.......
Too much, China is different with others, many problems must be solved under the guidance of government, or it is very hard to push forward, just hope government can handle these positively......

LOL, u must be kidding me right?
Hope the government handle the positively and make today China house price drop ? Well the Wen had said ten years of dropping house price and release several administrative means, but the result just prove he is a JOKER and earn 1billion dollars from his ten years of high house price.

This guy was the great "Oscar Winner"

 

[JSCh]

Many people/entity keeps flipping properties in China? What is the deficit/debt/saving level? How high is the leverage?

 

[cnleio]

My opinion today Chinese house market as similar as past United State house market before 2008, too many Chinese family owe banks' loans.

"BOOM" will lead to social issues, even not econmy problems; if not keep blowing the bubble, normal Chinese ppl also no money could afford 20,000/centiare.

Many people/entity keeps flipping properties in China? What is the deficit/debt/saving level? How high is the leverage?

Top confidential, i also wanna the answer SIR.

 

[cnleio]

2013 China, the most bills still ￥100 cash

Guess these money whether could pay for a house in China big-sized cities? My answer is not, but can buy house in the town and small cities.

P.S Buying a China house didn't mean the owner could get the right of permanent residence, u only have 70 year usage right after 70 year nobody care here.

PPS In China still no house property tax.

 

[walle]

Chinese property market in recent years have introduced a lot of new rules regarding the purchase of property for investment/ speculative purposes. Ie, there used to be a 50% equity for a 2nd property, now they want you to pay it outright. Investment property cant be sold within 5 years of purchase, hukou also restrict purchasing rights.

Inflated property prices work to encourage people to live elsewhere, as housing in cities like shanghai become unaffordable satellite towns have been propped up, a sizable portion of migrant are actually going back to their 2nd or 3rd tier cities as those become more developed. The local hukou holders will usually own their own home.

 

[cirr]

China has problems。

India has more problems。

Housing prices in big and over-populated Indian cities are higher than in equivalent cities in China，even though the latter's per capita GDP is 4
times the former。

That's why while China is growing at a relatively slower pace than in the past，India is virtually crawling。