200 Countries, 200 Years, 4 Minutes,Gapminder

[below_freezing]

True that. However, in the case of India and China, the growth we see is not due to exploitation of other countries in the classic sense of like those by colonial powers of yester years.

How is that Europeans could come up with the idea of Industrial revolution what with all their inbred royalty and always at wars with each other, while Asian and African countries lagged way behind inspite of having decades of relative peace?

Are wars - the bane of civilized society - driving cause for a country's growth? Do wars drive innovation and industrialization?

My theory is simple: industrialization in Europe was a complete accident of geography. This is not racism, this is anti-racism, because the alternative theory is: Europeans are superior to Asians, which is not true, going by their lower IQs.

Here's why I say this: India and China, for the most part of the past 1000 years, enjoyed relative peace and stability. This was especially evident in the Ming Dynasty and Mughal Dynasty. However, we were not able to expand our territories; this led to a trap called high level equilibrium, where our GDP/capita increase and population rate increase at the exact same rate, therefore no surplus capital is avaliable for investment, since all of it was used to maintain the current standard of living. As populations increased, the need for technological development decreased, as labor became cheaper and cheaper it became more worthwhile to invest in workers, rather than in machines. Once in a while, wars would decrease the population, but they simultaneously decreased the GDP, and the trap remained. Europe was also stuck in this trap until a major event occured: discovery and colonization of the Americas.

The colonization of the western hemisphere by whites (an accidental event) was an event that propelled Europe out of the equilibrium trap in every way possible. There was plenty of avaliable land, allowing large farms to be built and take advantage of economies of scale, increasing per capita food output and therefore GDP; this way, American farms could sell food back to Europe and increase Europe's population. the US was also a population sink, being short of labor while Europe had surplus labor thanks to American food being sold back to them, this in turn increased the cost of European labor enough for machines to become a worthy investment. Finally, the traders of food and labor accumulated surplus capital, increasing GDP growth rates beyond population growth, and had the capital needed to invest in machines. Once the first factories were built, there was another labor sink, which put the abundant cheap labor at the time to employment and allowed the bosses to accumulate even more capital, which allowed them to invest even more in machines, etc. and creating a positive feedback loop that propelled Europe ahead.

Without the discovery of the Americas and the surplus food + labor sink for pre-industrial age, industrialization would have been impossible.

 

[Bang Galore]

@H2O3C4Nitrogen

Brilliant! Thank you for this post. A very refreshing change from the usual threads.

 

[W.11]

in 1957 china plunged down, and was in worst condition

 

[Comet]

This is very interesting. Thanks for the thread H2O3C4Nitrogen

 

[SpArK]

Finally a breath of fresh air and a brilliant thread to learn something.. Thanks H2O3C4Nitrogen for this wonderful thread..

 

[Water Car Engineer]

http://www.gapminder.org/GapminderMedia/wp-uploads/pdf_charts/GWM2010.pdf

In the 80s, India would have been like all the way at the bottom left.

National Human Development Report 1981

National Human Development Report 1991

National Human Development Report 2001

State-level Census and Statistics 2008 report

 

[Aamir Hussain]

Very interesting post -- thank you H2O3C4Nitrogen! It can really turn into a sticky thread.

An interestin thing would be to see what is common between countries that have grown in the past 50 years or so from population, cultural heritage, origins, language, form of Government, and religious point of view (we can add more barometers to my limited list).

May be, and I again say may be, we can find a common thread that will help us identify, let us say five clear step that should be taken to ensure our successful path to the top.

Once again a very good post.

 

[DV RULES]

http://www.carnegieendowment.org/files/World_Order_in_2050.pdf



Here a link to an interesting economical growth, check it please

http://www.paulchefurka.ca/WEAP2/Energy_GDP_2050.html

 

[American Eagle]

As I wrote in a vignette (letter to the editor) of the NEW YORK TIMES circa 1971 while I was then an International banker @ Manufacturers Hanover Trust Co. (long since merged via Chemical Bank into JP Morgan Chase Bank)...wars accelerate medical research more than any other single factor. This is a regrettably true fact.

 

[TruthSeeker]

The Stats are really amazing, Like Japan having faced the Blow two Atomic Bombs still came out Rich and Healthy.. Truly a Remarkable Nation

Great thread! Thank you for posting it.

Mr. H2O3C4Nitrogen, though,

Some of your anti-American prejudice is showing thru in your post above. The two atomic "blows" received by Japan were no worse than the Dresden bombings of Germany or the fire bombing of Tokyo. In spite of the horror of nuclear weapons that has developed since 1945, at the time, the atomic "blows" were merely a case of "one bridge too far" for the Japanese high command. They had suffered a 100 times more casualties before that. The two bombs were merely the last blow that sapped their will to continue the fight. And, you should give the American conquerors substantial credit for the recovery of both Germany and Japan after the war. The benevolent "occupation" by USA forces and the tremendous economic assistance given to both nations by the USA was very important to the recovery of each. Of course, the Japanese and German people were highly capable and ambitious so all they needed was for the USA to get out of their way and help them by investing, trading and giving them military protection. If every nation that the USA has "occupied" were as capable as Japan, Germany and South Korea, there would be more such success stories to put on the chart. Someday we can hope that Iraq may join them. But, then again, Iraq has a different underlying national culture ....

 

[CardSharp]

My theory is simple: industrialization in Europe was a complete accident of geography. This is not racism, this is anti-racism, because the alternative theory is: Europeans are superior to Asians, which is not true, going by their lower IQs.

Here's why I say this: India and China, for the most part of the past 1000 years, enjoyed relative peace and stability. This was especially evident in the Ming Dynasty and Mughal Dynasty. However, we were not able to expand our territories; this led to a trap called high level equilibrium, where our GDP/capita increase and population rate increase at the exact same rate, therefore no surplus capital is avaliable for investment, since all of it was used to maintain the current standard of living. As populations increased, the need for technological development decreased, as labor became cheaper and cheaper it became more worthwhile to invest in workers, rather than in machines. Once in a while, wars would decrease the population, but they simultaneously decreased the GDP, and the trap remained. Europe was also stuck in this trap until a major event occured: discovery and colonization of the Americas.

The colonization of the western hemisphere by whites (an accidental event) was an event that propelled Europe out of the equilibrium trap in every way possible. There was plenty of avaliable land, allowing large farms to be built and take advantage of economies of scale, increasing per capita food output and therefore GDP; this way, American farms could sell food back to Europe and increase Europe's population. the US was also a population sink, being short of labor while Europe had surplus labor thanks to American food being sold back to them, this in turn increased the cost of European labor enough for machines to become a worthy investment. Finally, the traders of food and labor accumulated surplus capital, increasing GDP growth rates beyond population growth, and had the capital needed to invest in machines. Once the first factories were built, there was another labor sink, which put the abundant cheap labor at the time to employment and allowed the bosses to accumulate even more capital, which allowed them to invest even more in machines, etc. and creating a positive feedback loop that propelled Europe ahead.

Without the discovery of the Americas and the surplus food + labor sink for pre-industrial age, industrialization would have been impossible.

This is an interesting theory and on the face it I can't say it doesn't make sense. Industrialization in the west kind of ties in with Cotton farming and slavery in America. The textile industry was what lead the industrial revolution. Things the power loom and the cotton gin was the basis of early factory production. This kind of gives over to the idea that technology can act as fundamental social forces.

Have you read

Guns, Germs, and Steel: Amazon.ca: Jared Diamond: Books

It tells of how accidents in geography lead to human divergence into hunter gatherers and farmers. With the farmers then using the surplus gained from farming to support specialize classes like priests, blacksmith, tradesmen etc.

 

[CardSharp]

Great thread! Thank you for posting it.

Mr. H2O3C4Nitrogen, though,

Some of your anti-American prejudice is showing thru in your post above. The two atomic "blows" received by Japan were no worse than the Dresden bombings of Germany or the fire bombing of Tokyo. In spite of the horror of nuclear weapons that has developed since 1945, at the time, the atomic "blows" were merely a case of "one bridge too far" for the Japanese high command. They had suffered a 100 times more casualties before that. The two bombs were merely the last blow that sapped their will to continue the fight. And, you should give the American conquerors substantial credit for the recovery of both Germany and Japan after the war. The benevolent "occupation" by USA forces and the tremendous economic assistance given to both nations by the USA was very important to the recovery of each. Of course, the Japanese and German people were highly capable and ambitious so all they needed was for the USA to get out of their way and help them by investing, trading and giving them military protection. If every nation that the USA has "occupied" were as capable as Japan, Germany and South Korea, there would be more such success stories to put on the chart. Someday we can hope that Iraq may join them. But, then again, Iraq has a different underlying national culture ....

Do you have to be on the clock 24/7 why ruin this great thread with your politic apologism? Are people not allowed to hold unfavourable views of your country?

 

[TruthSeeker]

going by their lower IQs.

The colonization of the western hemisphere by whites

Mr. below_freezing, You cannot escape your racist mind set, can you?

You should learn to get past your hatred of "whites".

 

[TruthSeeker]

Are people not allowed to hold unfavourable views of your country?

Of course they are!! Just like I am allowed to call them on their distortions of the truth! Neither you nor I are the thought police. Although, I have to admit, in Communist China it truly IS NOT ALLOWED to hold unfavorable views of China (or, at least to express publicly).

 

[TruthSeeker]

Industrialization in the west kind of ties in with Cotton farming and slavery in America. The textile industry was what lead the industrial revolution.

This is like one of the greatest exaggerations ever! I see where this is headed. All of the success of the West came about because the dirty Americans held slaves.