1971 War - Indian fighter aircraft shot down by Pakistani defenders

[jayron]

>implying 71 invasion would have been a victory for India if it were in Pakistan's geographical disadvantage and at the same time being ignored by it's 'ally'

You mean to say Pakistan would have won if it were in a 'better' geographic position? You can always give such reasons for losing a war, for you can have a lot of reasons. you can say India is a bigger country with better everything. Its better not to rejoice over shooting a plane when half of your country is lost.

 

[Areesh]

Indian Defense Minister J Ram presented the statistics from the Indian side on Dec 18 1971 - claimed 94 confirmed hits from IAF. This includes air to air hits, air to ground hits (PAF planes being in hanger) and most of all, only confirmed hits.

F-86Es were captured in heaps in Tejgaon. And is not included in above figure of 94. Go do the maths.

Well obviously he was Bharati defense minister. What else do we expect from him? Good thing is he didn't claim that IAF has destroyed all PAF Combat, Transport and Trainer AC's.

 

[skyisthelimit]

You mean to say Pakistan would have won if it were in a 'better' geographic position? You can always give such reasons for losing a war, for you can have a lot of reasons. you can say India is a bigger country with better everything. Its better not to rejoice over shooting a plane when half of your country is lost.

Bro,
the fact is since the inception of pakistan, they have been finding ways to prove they are better than indians in all fronts. no doubt their strategy in todays date has backfired them everytime they tried a new adventure against us.

to salvage their pride and ego, they have all kinds of stories to feed their population, no doubt the younger generation on pdf has the feeling that their country has always been on the right path. such stories make them save their chairs and citizens of pakistan are happy that atleast we did inflict some damage to india.

i believe inspite of their assertion, history doesnt change and the result is known to all us and themselves.

 

[desioptimist]

Bro,
the fact is since the inception of pakistan, they have been finding ways to prove they are better than indians in all fronts. no doubt their strategy in todays date has backfired them everytime they tried a new adventure against us.

to salvage their pride and ego, they have all kinds of stories to feed their population, no doubt the younger generation on pdf has the feeling that their country has always been on the right path. such stories make them save their chairs and citizens of pakistan are happy that atleast we did inflict some damage to india.

i believe inspite of their assertion, history doesnt change and the result is known to all us and themselves.

What you said above is somewhat true for us Indians too. We also consume information provided by our govt, and think that it is true. Only saving grace is, by and large the information is in sync with independent international sources.

Another interesting thing, you will hardly find an Indian saying we won / could win 1962 war with china. Although we did not lose any territory in that war , it was lost. And we have the courage to accept that.

 

[Kyusuibu Honbu]

Didn't know Su-7s were operated by IAF back then.


All we keep haring are about Gnats and MIG-21s.


By the way why are my fellow Indians getting emotional about this?

 

[Last Hope]

We won anyway

Really?
Wars between Pak-Ind werent won by ANYONE...

Its all aim...
You didnt take over us, neither could we...so no one won....one trried 2 attack failed, other tries to defend, succeded a bit...

Wars arent won, they are fought!

 

[Myth_buster_1]

On this forum you can even prove that India shouldn't exist and Pakistan owns all the area from Kashmir to Kanyakumari. Issue is not that. Issue is that while you call a cabinet minister of a country liar, you don't have anything that proves you are not.

The report I was referring to - I had read that in like 2007 & was published by an English researcher. So at least it has the authenticity of being neutral. And when we had won the war outright, we didn't really have a need to falsify the figures. The lost parties most of the times need to convince their populace that even if they lost, the loss was much smaller and was no big deal. And people like you get convinced.

And last I checked it wasn't Indian govt that was falsifying official figures (Hint - 2009 GDP figures).

I have never came across anyone so deluded as yourself. Indian government has always over hyped IAF kills over PAF in both 65 and 71 war and in both occasions failed to prove anything with evidence other then made wild claims to satisfy indian egos.
Your analogy is flawed because the wright for india to exist is someone's opinion while what i was talking about is proven FACTS by NON-Pakistan NON-Muslim defence analysts (and that does not just includes Chuck Yeager).
Before you blindly fallow your Indian government propaganda, do a research on your own to examine its creditability because the chances are high for you guys being fed with pack of lies.
The pathological lair Indian Defense Minister J Ram also claimed of IAF shooting down 10 F-104 and 4 Mirage-III which all turned out to be false based on foreigner defense annalists report.

 

[brahmastra]

the indians also conveniently forget that necessary war supplies had been cut off to Pakistan....meanwhile , soviet were liberally helping you meet your immediate defence needs

not our fault if your friends kicks you in need.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Indians are acting quite retarded and Psycho because every time their is a topic related to 71 war they only come up with one conclusion.. we won... The whole point of this forum is to discuss keeping what the tittle is about.. I hope you guys have learned this in your schools.

 

[Kyusuibu Honbu]

I hope you guys have learned this in your schools.

Wars(modern era) ones have never been discussed in school history.

 

[brahmastra]

I have never came across anyone so deluded as yourself. Indian government has always over hyped IAF kills over PAF in both 65 and 71 war and in both occasions failed to prove anything with evidence other then made wild claims to satisfy indian egos.
Your analogy is flawed because the wright for india to exist is someone's opinion while what i was talking about is proven FACTS by NON-Pakistan NON-Muslim defence analysts (and that does not just includes Chuck Yeager).
Before you blindly fallow your Indian government propaganda, do a research on your own to examine its creditability because the chances are high for you guys being fed with pack of lies.
The pathological lair Indian Defense Minister J Ram also claimed of IAF shooting down 10 F-104 and 4 Mirage-III which all turned out to be false based on foreigner defense annalists report.

lol.... whos talking about lying and propaganda.

just look what your government was lying to you even before one day of your lost.

The Last Days Of United Pakistan

you did not last for even 2 weeks and claiming victory.

 

[brahmastra]

Indians are acting quite retarded and Psycho because every time their is a topic related to 71 war they only come up with one conclusion.. we won... The whole point of this forum is to discuss keeping what the tittle is about.. I hope you guys have learned this in your schools.

when you can't talk, you go for personal attack.

we say we won. but that was the real conclusion. isn't it?

you guys posted half video of Indian attack and started yelling we shot down Indian plane.

just look at the full video I posted ,IAF successfully bombed Dhaka airport.

watch it again.

 

[desioptimist]

lol.... whos talking about lying and propaganda.

just look what your government was lying to you even before one day of your lost.

The Last Days Of United Pakistan

you did not last for even 2 weeks and claiming victory.

I think most govt will give a favorable picture of their forces in the ongoing war, they dont want to scare the people, and keep troop morale high.

The Iraqi information minister was even fun to watch, when he said, we are killing americans in thousands, when second gulf war was going on.
Those who missed
We Love the Iraqi Information Minister

Also Nasser made similar claim during Israel-Egypt war.
So nothing special.

 

[desioptimist]

Really?
Wars between Pak-Ind werent won by ANYONE...

Its all aim...
You didnt take over us, neither could we...so no one won....one trried 2 attack failed, other tries to defend, succeded a bit...

Wars arent won, they are fought!

What would have meant a win by India in 71 for you. A complete takeover of Pakistan, like Iraq war?

From Indian point of view, war was won as it matched our goal. As east pakistan became independent country after surrender. In western front, we just had to defend us, but we still marched in.

If the aim of pakistan to somehow defend only west pakistan, then probably you won too.

Remember, big brother america was watching us, could have joined the war if we had tried to dismember west pakistan.

By your own logic then, India did not lose 1962 war at all, as we even kept our territory( it did not go to china, nor did it became different country).
But any Indian (including indian govt) will admit that we lost 62.

 

[Last Hope]

What would have meant a win by India in 71 for you. A complete takeover of Pakistan, like Iraq war?

From Indian point of view, war was won as it matched our goal. As east pakistan became independent country after surrender. In western front, we just had to defend us, but we still marched in.

If the aim of pakistan to somehow defend only west pakistan, then probably you won too.

Remember, big brother america was watching us, could have joined the war if we had tried to dismember west pakistan.

By your own logic then, India did not lose 1962 war at all, as we even kept our territory( it did not go to china, nor did it became different country).
But any Indian (including indian govt) will admit that we lost 62.

YAWN

Hmmmm....
Why care about wars?
Why dont live with peace??
No one should poke his nose anywhere, then no problems will be created...
Live happy, forget about wars!!