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1971 facts from fiction

I hope the 93000 were not all Chinese army men as some would like to believe.

Not quite.

The way the vociferous argument went it appeared that Pakistan had won and that the Chinese got captured! total fictionalised balderdash.

The Justice Hamdoor Rehman report would be adequate.

Hopefully you shall be able to access the classified parts too.
 
Not quite.

The way the vociferous argument went it appeared that Pakistan had won and that the Chinese got captured! total fictionalised balderdash.

The Justice Hamdoor Rehman report would be adequate.

Hopefully you shall be able to access the classified parts too.


Actually I understood where you were going with it but I think you missed my drift which was wrt the grossly exaggerated 90K number of POWs that is claimed against Pakistan in the 1971 conflicts. What most geniuses forget about is that the total Pakistani military presence in EP did not exceed 45K troops.
 
Actually I understood where you were going with it but I think you missed my drift which was wrt the grossly exaggerated 90K number of POWs that is claimed against Pakistan in the 1971 conflicts. What most geniuses forget about is that the total Pakistani military presence in EP did not exceed 45K troops.

I was in that war and it was 93K unfortunately.
 
After Pakistan's surrender late in 1971, people in Bangladesh rejoiced at their liberation. This was followed by a need to get international acceptance for Bangladesh, as only a few countries recognised the new nation. Bangladesh sought admission in the UN with most voting in its favour, but China vetoed this as Pakistan was its key ally. However the United States grudgingly recognized it, and to ensure a smooth transition, in 1972 the Shimla Agreement was signed between India and Pakistan. The treaty was a watershed in the history of the South Asian region as it ensured that Bangladesh would get official recognition from Pakistan and its principal allies in exchange for the return of the Pakistani PoWs. India treated all the PoWs in strict accordance with the Geneva Convention, rule 1925. It released more than 90,000 Pakistani PoWs in a record five months. As a gesture of goodwill, the nearly 200 soldiers who were sought for war crimes by Bengalis were also pardoned by India. The accord also gave back more than 13,000 km² of land that Indian troops had won in West Pakistan during the war, holding on to a few strategic places; most notably Kargil (which would in turn again be the focal point for a war between the two nations in 1999). This was done as a measure of ensuring "lasting peace" and was acknowledged by many observers as a sign of maturity by India. But some in India felt that the treaty had been too lenient to Bhutto, who had pleaded for more leeway as he felt that the fragile democracy in Pakistan would crumble if the accord was perceived as being too harsh in Pakistan.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bangladesh_Liberation_War#End_of_the_war
 
I was in that war and it was 93K unfortunately.

93K would be the total amount of POWs but in NO case were they all military personnel.

After Pakistan's surrender late in 1971, people in Bangladesh rejoiced at their liberation. This was followed by a need to get international acceptance for Bangladesh, as only a few countries recognised the new nation. Bangladesh sought admission in the UN with most voting in its favour, but China vetoed this as Pakistan was its key ally. However the United States grudgingly recognized it, and to ensure a smooth transition, in 1972 the Shimla Agreement was signed between India and Pakistan. The treaty was a watershed in the history of the South Asian region as it ensured that Bangladesh would get official recognition from Pakistan and its principal allies in exchange for the return of the Pakistani PoWs. India treated all the PoWs in strict accordance with the Geneva Convention, rule 1925. It released more than 90,000 Pakistani PoWs in a record five months. As a gesture of goodwill, the nearly 200 soldiers who were sought for war crimes by Bengalis were also pardoned by India. The accord also gave back more than 13,000 km² of land that Indian troops had won in West Pakistan during the war, holding on to a few strategic places; most notably Kargil (which would in turn again be the focal point for a war between the two nations in 1999). This was done as a measure of ensuring "lasting peace" and was acknowledged by many observers as a sign of maturity by India. But some in India felt that the treaty had been too lenient to Bhutto, who had pleaded for more leeway as he felt that the fragile democracy in Pakistan would crumble if the accord was perceived as being too harsh in Pakistan.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bangladesh_Liberation_War#End_of_the_war

Please refrain from quoting from Wikipedia. An encyclopedia that can be edited by anyone doesn't bring much to the credibility table.
 
Then please check Justice Hamdoor Commission Report.

Further, it would be adequate to note that the COMPLETE Pakistan Armed Forces in East Pakistan SURRENDERED.

Either way, the point has been made.
 
I was in that war and it was 93K unfortunately.

I am sorry but its propaganda pure and simple on your part. I too know of the number of units and personnel that were in EP at the time of the fall of EP and they were no more than 45000 military personnel. If you'd like, I can post the orbat in EP of the Pakistani divs under the Eastern Command. We knew quite a few officers who were in EP at the fall of surrender and being within the Army circle, knew pretty well which formations were in EP.

Then please check Justice Hamdoor Commission Report.

Further, it would be adequate to note that the COMPLETE Pakistan Armed Forces in East Pakistan SURRENDERED.

Either way, the point has been made.

I am afraid that point has not been made with regards to the POWs. Instead the incorrect propaganda has been perpetuated even further. The overall Pakistani Armed Forces presence did not exceed 45000 in EP at the time of the fall of Dhaka. No where in the Hamood-ur-Rehman report does it specifically state that all 90,000 were Pakistani army personnel.
 
I am afraid that point has not been made with regards to the POWs. Instead the incorrect propaganda has been perpetuated even further. The overall Pakistani Armed Forces presence did not exceed 45000 in EP at the time of the fall of Dhaka. No where in the Hamood-ur-Rehman report does it specifically state that all 90,000 were Pakistani army personnel.


It is not for me to dispel your belief in whatever you wish to believe.

It is adequate that world knows it otherwise.

And it does not matter either since it is history.

As Omar Khayyam had written

The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ,
Moves on: nor all your Piety nor Wit
Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line,
Nor all your Tears wash out a Word of it
 
It is not for me to dispel your belief in whatever you wish to believe.

It is adequate that world knows it otherwise.

And it does not matter either since it is history.

As Omar Khayyam had written

The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ,
Moves on: nor all your Piety nor Wit
Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line,
Nor all your Tears wash out a Word of it

World knows what your propaganda told them. Facts are quite different from it.

"[SIZE=-1]History will be kind to me, for I intend to write it." Churchill.[/SIZE]
 
I just got through talking to someone who was taken a POW during 1971 and the fact is, there were three Pakistan Army divisions in East Pakistan along with EPCAF and Mujahid forces with all ranks numbering no more than 50,000. Around 5,000 are believed to have been martyred which left 45,000 'all' ranks while the rest civlians as POWs.
 
Ah yes, everything is propaganda.

Even the Pakistani media at that time did not refute the figures!

Salim it simply amazes me that you claim to be an Armyman who, judging by your posts, happened to be in EP in 71 and at Kargil (very long military career ;)) as well but are clueless about what it means to have 90,000 army POWs. Can you tell me how many divisions that translates into? Once you have that worked out then come back and talk facts....anything other than that is pure and simple Indian propaganda chewed on, digested, and then regurgitated by you.

Has it ever occurred to you that the total accepted include the Police, CAF, PIA and even civilian [SIZE=-1]bureaucrats of West Pakistani origin?


[/SIZE]
 
Indeed. I am clueless.

I, myself, am amazed at myself!

No, I don't claim anything. You know better about me as Pakistanis have my dossier. Who am I to talk about what I did?

Thanks for educating me.

You Pakistanis are so well educated indeed.

You marvel the world!

You are right. It is sheer propaganda.

1971 never took place!

:whatever:

Your experience does not really matter here as I have been in the same circle only on the other side. I have been close enough to both the folks who served in 1971 and to HU report for me to be able to parse through what is factual and what is not. The fact that you go on and on stating "I was there..." does not mean anything.

Given that you have resorted to condescending posts (which are rather unbecoming of an IA type), I guess this will be it from me.
 
:whatever:

Your experience does not really matter here as I have been in the same circle only on the other side. I have been close enough to both the folks who served in 1971 and to HU report for me to be able to parse through what is factual and what is not. The fact that you go on and on stating "I was there..." does not mean anything.

Given that you have resorted to condescending posts (which are rather unbecoming of an IA type), I guess this will be it from me.

Of course you would know better as to what is becoming and unbecoming of the IA. You know the IA well having been, I presume, in it.

I maybe condescending, but you are supercilious.

You have been close to which two folks in 1971 and what is HU? Helicopter unit?

However, you apparntly think you know better since possible you were one of the PsW or so it appears from what you imply.
 
Of course you would know better as to what is becoming and unbecoming of the IA. You know the IA well having been, I presume, in it.

I maybe condescending, but you are supercilious.

You have been close to which two folks in 1971 and what is HU? Helicopter unit?

However, you apparntly think you know better since possible you were one of the PsW or so it appears from what you imply.

Nice comeback. :whatever:
 
Excellent postulation indeed.

The world then it appears are agents of India.

Any idea what the Bangladeshis have to say?

Boss waiting for a Bangladeshi reply would be totally waste because it is waste of time. Best you can gauge their mentality in bdmilitary.com.

Hoping you would find it interesting.

Regds,

Charlie.
 

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