1971 facts from fiction

[roadrunner]

Look, You're missing my point. You're basically saying what I'm saying but a bit less. The Hindu part of Jammu has grown because of migration from the K part. You seem to agree. Then why is it the overall population of J&K shows less Muslims and more HIndus. Only two possibilities
1)the Indian government are forcing extra people into Jammu & Kashmir to fiddle the figures
2) The Muslims are being "genocided" at a greater rate than the Hindus in J&K
So, which is it?

 

[Marathaman]

Look, You're missing my point. You're basically saying what I'm saying but a bit less. The Hindu part of Jammu has grown because of migration from the K part. You seem to agree. Then why is it the overall population of J&K shows less Muslims and more HIndus. Only two possibilities
1)the Indian government are forcing extra people into Jammu & Kashmir to fiddle the figures
2) The Muslims are being "genocided" at a greater rate than the Hindus in J&K
So, which is it?

No, I don't know and can't say why the Hindu population of Jammu has increased. Perhaps its higher birthrate in Jammu than Kashmir. Maybe you should consider that Jammu has a much higher density of population compared to Kashmir and also higher birth rates.

Look roadrunner, Incase you don't know, Jammu is the majority hindu part, and kashmir is the majority muslim part.
The genocide took part in KASHMIR VALLEY. Look for that on the map, okay?

Your 1) and 2) points make absolutely zero sense.

 

[roadrunner]

No, I don't know and can't say why the Hindu population of Jammu has increased. Perhaps its higher birthrate in Jammu than Kashmir. Maybe you should consider that Jammu has a much higher density of population compared to Kashmir and also higher birth rates.

Oh, isn't that odd. Whilst in Dravidia proper itself (India minus Kashmir and some extrene northwestern areas), you have everyone complaining about the high Muslim birth rate compared to Hindus and that Hindus are going to be swamped out in 100 years in the country, in J&K the Hindus are out-reproducing the Muslims. Now isn't that a turn-up for the books!

Look roadrunner, Incase you don't know, Jammu is the majority hindu part, and kashmir is the majority muslim part.

Agreed

The genocide took part in KASHMIR VALLEY. Look for that on the map, okay?

Look, the number of Muslims has decreased more than the number of Hindus in J&K. IF there was a genocide of "pandits" in the Kashmir Valley, there has been a genocide of Kashmir Muslims somewhere else. How else do you explain the increase in Hindus in the population by a couple of percentage points?

Your 1) and 2) points make absolutely zero sense.

They make absolute sense. You choose not to see the obvious.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Hyderabad was predominatly Hindu. I'm glad it went to India. Kashmir though isnt, and though India has tried to fill it up with as many Hindus as possible over the years, the ethnic composition has been monitored. The UN resolutions still exist against India on Kashmir.

Do reproduce the UN resolution for a debate.

 

[Always Neutral]

Come on guys. Both India and Pakistan are flouting the UN ruling openly and infact i think its outdated now.

 

[roadrunner]

Come on guys. Both India and Pakistan are flouting the UN ruling openly and infact i think its outdated now.

Here we go.. "Always Neutral" comes along with not so neutral indo centric viewpoint and his claims of Britishness when English is barely coherent. I have just been busy, but will quote them all very soon. The facts are these:

• Pakistan is not flouting any UN resolution of Kashmir. India is flouting several
• UN resolutions do not become outdated, until the UN decides to remove them

 

[Always Neutral]

What is so indocentric about the post ? Pakistan is never going to withdraw its forces a pre-condition for the plebicite and India is never going to agree to a plebicite. The EU considers a plebicite meaningless.

 

[Always Neutral]

Excerpts:

Dr Prannoy Roy: One thing in your solution. I will just be very clear so that the people of India can know this clearly. You are being, in a way, extremely bold, because it means, that you are giving up plebiscite and giving up the UN resolution?

Musharraf: Again there is little bit of ... One is giving up that clearly and I say, yes am giving up...There is a provision in that. Am not giving up ... At all ... But one is prepared to give up, in case India leaves its stated position also...

Dr Prannoy Roy: Right. If this formula is agreed to you, you will give that up, basically...

Musharraf: Both sides ... Listen, I believe when you are negotiating and you go for peace, it means what? It means compromise... otherwise you can't have and ... you can't go for a solution of a problem... What do you mean by compromise? Compromise can never take place if you don't step back. Compromise inherently means stepping back by both sides. So inherently, both sides have to give up their positions... and step back. If one of us is not prepared to step back, we will not reach a solution.

Dr Prannoy Roy: If India does accept this, you will step back and give up those demands...

Musharraf: Yes...we will have to.

The Pakistani President also made it clear once Pakistan gives up its claim to Kashmir, this four point solution is not a negotiating step towards getting independence for Kashmir and that self-governance or autonomy is not the first step to Kashmir's independence.

Excerpts:

Dr Prannoy Roy: When you talk about self governance of Kashmir ...We wont not go into the details... that we will leave the bureaucrats and...

Musharraf: Yes, legal side...

Dr Prannoy Roy: Are you then saying, No independence for Kashmir'?

Musharraf: Yes, we are against independence....

Dr Prannoy Roy: You are against independence?

Musharraf: Absolutely... And so is India...

 

[Always Neutral]

Mr Roadrunner,

Before casting aspersions I think you must read what your President said on Kashmir and Plebicite. Maybe some of us are not adept on computer key boards but please don't doubt are intelligence.

Best Regards

 

[roadrunner]

What is so indocentric about the post ? Pakistan is never going to withdraw its forces a pre-condition for the plebicite and India is never going to agree to a plebicite. The EU considers a plebicite meaningless.

Pakistan agreed to withdraw its forces as per UN resolution. India did not stating that it needed a mere extra 6,000 troops (24,000 total), in case the 6,000 Pakistani troops in Kashmir invaded them and beat them (I will get the reference for this too if you can be patient). Everyone knows it was India that obstructed plebiscite when there was a good chance for a solution to Kashmir: In the words of Sir Owen Dixon, the United Nations Representative to the UNCIP, reported to the Security Council that,

In the end, I became convinced that India’s agreement would never be obtained to demilitarization in any such form, or to provisions governing the period of the plebiscite of any such character, as would in my opinion permit the plebiscite being conducted in conditions sufficiently guarding against intimidation, and other forms of abuse by which the freedom and fairness of the plebiscite might be imperiled.33
SJIR: The Fate of Kashmir : International Law or Lawlessness?

Noone considers a plebiscite to be totally meaningless, least of all democratic countries, since a plebiscite will be the will of the people (and we all know they are against India too).

 

[roadrunner]

Mr Roadrunner,

Before casting aspersions I think you must read what your President said on Kashmir and Plebicite. Maybe some of us are not adept on computer key boards but please don't doubt are intelligence.

Best Regards

Musharraf would prefer Kashmir to be solved by plebiscite

Best Regards!

 

[Always Neutral]

Okay for argument sake I accept your post that India is wrong and plebicite is needed can you clarify why Gen M is ready to forgoe it ?

 

[Always Neutral]

Plebicite means re-drawing boundaries as well giving Kashmir independence of both India and Pakistan as a third option. The Gen M has ruled out both in his interview.

 

[Always Neutral]

Both EU and USA think plebicite though a good idea is now irrelavent. Russia will support India and China will keep mum as its also occupying Kashmiri territory. The OIC keeps mum and Saudi's want India to be members of OIC. Gen M is also ready to give up plebicite get the trend ?

 

[roadrunner]

Plebicite means re-drawing boundaries as well giving Kashmir independence of both India and Pakistan as a third option. The Gen M has ruled out both in his interview.

The plebiscite that the UN attempted first time did not give the choice of independence. The instrument of partition would not have given the choice of independnce. I don't see why they should be given the choice of independence now. But personally, I dont care if they are. All Pakistan would lose is Azad Kashmir and it's semi-independent anyway. Northern Areas never were a part of Kashmir. I dont see the problem. The boundaries of Kashmir dont need to be redrawn.