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1965 War - The complete story

Here come's the indian propaganda...dude did you know the entire story about 71? did you know why all this mess started and when did it started?

India just used this BS to take advantage from that situation!...If you just based your claims of genocide then what we have to do to india? you have killed sikh back in 1984, you have killed millions of Muslims till now days, you were burning christians alive now days...so the entire world have to invade India from stoping these genocides?!

Learn the difference between Riots - which is a law and order situation - and an army deliberately targeting civilians (which is genocide). As far as it being Pakistan's internal matter, it stopped being Pakistans internal matter when more than a million refugees pored into India.

Anyway, my question was asked to xeric, a military professional, not to you.
 
Looks like that to me. Otherwise it would be rather stupid of you people not use your edge and allow the Indians to take the largest military surrender after World War 2!!!

Well if it "Looks like that to me" then i suggest you give a re-read to the history about Kargil, screwed up operation Prakaram 2001-02 and the recent stand off between Pakistan and india after the Mumbai drama!
 
Well if it "Looks like that to me" then i suggest you give a re-read to the history about Kargil, screwed up operation Prakaram 2001-02 and the recent stand off between Pakistan and india after the Mumbai drama!

As i suspected you have no substantial point to offer except flaming. I had asked you a direct question about your so called edge in 65, but you prefer to burrow your head in the sand to avoid the storm instead.
 
As far as it being Pakistan's internal matter, it stopped being Pakistans internal matter when more than a million refugees pored into India.

Anyway, my question was asked to xeric, a military professional, not to you.

3 millions pored into Pakistan from Afghanistan did we attack Afghanistan?

20,000 Sri Lankan Tamil refugees rushed into Southern india you idnt attack them.

There are a total of 25.1 million refugees in the world currently how many of them compelled their host nations to attack the sender nation?

32 countries are facing problems as regards to refugees, how many time did they attack someone?

Here's some stats:
5566ffa88b73a36bb2d7e4ed2f1e4651.jpg



Here are the countries hosting the refugees in the end 2007:
4fc1da6123dec27bd8eca5e7261bc90a.jpg


How many of these ATTACKED the other country!!

Go take a walk!!
 
As i suspected you have no substantial point to offer except flaming. I had asked you a direct question about your so called edge in 65, but you prefer to burrow your head in the sand to avoid the storm instead.

Hey flame boy! It is you who are trying to 'flame' others, and i am sorry not many are buying it.

Try harder!
 
ok firstly this thread is about 1965....i don't understand why my fellow countrymen get dragged into a debate that indians like....i guess the indians achieve their aim of inflaming us....


as for 71 well the MASS GENOCIDE is practised in KASHMIR by the INDIAN ARMY.....and secondly we did nothing as drastic as you make it sound my INDIAN friends

have a look at this link....

The Telegraph - Calcutta : Look

ok as for edge....well if the war in 71 was fought in the WEST we could have reached a STALEMATE....but a two front war with a 6 times larger enemy sitting right in between you...is seriously a movie plot.....

so yes in 65 reaching a stalemate with a 6 times larger enemy in 1965 is a victory my friend....

pakistan can never expect to defeat an enemy 6 times its size but giving it a bloody nose every time it tries is good enough!!!

nobody expects CUBA to beat USA or the TAIWANESE to defeat the CHINESE...but just standing up to YOU for 60 years is a success story for us...!!
 
Take a walk? Hilarious. Try something more inventive if you wish to insult.

I gave you a chance to respond, i will provide a rebuttal. I have no wish to turn this thread into a flame thread, hence it will be my last post about 71.

3 millions pored into Pakistan from Afghanistan did we attack Afghanistan?

Wasnt Pakistan partly responsible for the Three million refugees poring into Pakistan?

20,000 Sri Lankan Tamil refugees rushed into Southern india you idnt attack them.

IPKF anyone?

There are a total of 25.1 million refugees in the world currently how many of them compelled their host nations to attack the sender nation?

32 countries are facing problems as regards to refugees, how many time did they attack someone?

Here's some stats:
5566ffa88b73a36bb2d7e4ed2f1e4651.jpg



Here are the countries hosting the refugees in the end 2007:
4fc1da6123dec27bd8eca5e7261bc90a.jpg


How many of these ATTACKED the other country!!

Go take a walk!!

Statistics are meaningless without looking at the context of all individual situations. Majority of the refugees in your stats fled their home nations because of a mixture of war, economic hardship, famine, etc.

Bangladeshi/ East Pakistani refugees fled to India because of the brutal repression of the Pakistani state. In 1971, India was an impoverished state, we just about had the capacity to feed our own people, how exactly would we have been able to handle such a large influx of refugees? (10 million according to one estimate). If we had done nothing, it would have resulted in a serious economic crises for us.

So no, 1971 doesn't speak highly of our "hypocrisy, cheat, bigotry and foul play," We interfered to save ourselves from catastrophe. Any nation would have done the same.

Now, since this thread is about 65, we should get back to topic.
 
AOA ...


Its pretty unfortunate that Pakistan and india has never been on good terms with each other since partition. and its the matter of great sorrow that couple of wars took place between two neighbours , May this enmity come to an end and both countries just combat the poverty.

friends no doubt Pakistan Army in 1965 outstandingly repulsed indian attack on international border ... and one may regard it as "Edge" , "Victory" etc , and nobody not even the indians deny it that they failed to enter in Lahore city ... in other words indian Army couldnt achieve its objective ... when an opponent A doesnt let opponent B to achieve its Goal A enjoys Edge over B , simple .. so pakistan had edge over india in 1965 war .

the question why could pakistan not keep edge intact in 1971 war??

i think only the Army Backed by its people gives better fight and i have no hesitation to admit that Pakistan Army did lack people support in east pakistan due to political injustice , so how could Army give better fight ??? moreover East pakistan having no land boundry with West pakistan provided india with a clear geographical edge ,
Maqti-bahni also palyed a key roll to creat hatred among east-pakistanis ... that was why pakistan Army couldnt prove to have edge in 1971 ..

and the last thing if india's reason to interfere in East pakistan was just the refugees , why was "Makti-Bahni" with indian military support already opertating there ???

anywz ... discussing past shall never help us forget our differences .. so i think let us find the way which leads to friendship , love and peace ..
 
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How come this edge suddenly disappeared just 6 years later?

In 65 united Pakistan fought against the common enemy(India) as one entity whereas 71 east Pakistan turned against central government due to political turmoil created by selfish politicians and anti Pakistani element so therefore India took advantage of the situation that was created for them.

Only reason India defeat Pak army in 71 because they lost the heart and mind of their own people............It was a perfect storm created by our own people for self destruction. :tsk:
 
Lets not forget this too

Qudrat Ullah Shahab was an eminent Urdu writer and civil servant from Pakistan....
had been a Minister of Information, Secretary to the President (Ayub KhanAyub Khan Field Marshal Muhammad Ayub Khan , Hilal-i-Jurat, Nishan-e-Pakistan, was a Field Marshal during the mid-1960s, and the President of Pakistan from 1958 to 1969), and an Ambassador in Holland, and he was very informed and well connected person. He said that:

"At a time when Major (General) Akhtar Hussain Malik was to take over Akhanoor to pave the way to take Srinager, the capital of Kashmir, he was wrongly removed from the command, and General Yahya Khan was put in his position. Perhaps the aim was to deprive Pakistan success in Akhnoor, Yahya Khan accomplished this task very well."


Zulfikar Ali Bhutto, one of the main players of this game (Operation Grandslam), also later argued that,

“Had General Akhtar Malik not been stopped in the Chamb-Jaurian Sector, the Indian forces in Kashmir would have suffered serious reverses, but Ayub Khan wanted to make his favorite, General Yahya Khan, a hero.”
 
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Hey flame boy! It is you who are trying to 'flame' others, and i am sorry not many are buying it.

Try harder!

Thanks for the nickname but be rest assured i wont stoop down to your level.

And ya, you still haven't answered the question kid.
 
Ayub misled nation in ’65 war: Nur Khan




ISLAMABAD — The 1965 war was based on a lie in which Ayub Khan and his generals misled the nation that India rather than Pakistan had provoked the war and that “we were the victims of Indian aggression”, Air Marshal Nur Khan, a war hero who led the country’s air force at the time, has said.

He said a coterie of army generals including its chief Gen Musa decided to send 8,000 infiltrators from the Pakistan army into India-held Kashmir in an abortive bid to foment Kashmiri revolt with vain hope that India would not retaliate and attack Pakistan.

Both the air force and the navy as also most of army commanders were kept in the dark and when the invasion came on September 6, 1965 with Lahore being the first Indian target, all of them, including the Lahore commander were taken by surprise.

The ‘Operation Gibraltar’, code name for infiltration into Kashmir proved a disaster as the local population did not cooperate and even helped the Indian forces to capture or kill almost all of 8,000 Pakistan army troops sneaking into the occupied territory.

Sharing his memoirs with Dawn on the 1965 war, which is celebrated as a victory in Pakistan on September 6 every year, Air Marshal (retired) Nur Khan said President Field Marshal Ayub Khan was petrified when only on the second day after India chose to attack Lahore on September 6, 1965, his army chief informed him he has another two days’ of ammunition left with him.

That was the extent of preparation in the Army. And the information had shocked Gen Ayub so much that it could have triggered his heart ailment, which overtook him a couple of years later. Ayub’s son Gohar Ayub Khan recently sparked a fierce controversy in both countries by claiming that an Indian brigadier had sold his country’s secret war plans to Ayub Khan for only Rs20, 000. His critics say the state of preparedness of Pakistan army at the time of invasion belies his claim.

Nur Khan led the air force to a heroic feat of completely dominating the air within hours of the start of the war, which it maintained till Soviet Union and the United Nations intervened to enforce a ceasefire 17 days later.

Nur Khan had replaced Asghar Khan only 43 days before the war and came close to resigning the very day he took command of Pakistan Air Force on July 23, 1965, when he learned about Operation Gibraltar. He thought the operation was a great folly that would sure provoke India to retaliate by expanding the war to international borders beyond Kashmir.

“Rumours about an impending operation were rife but the army had not shared the plans with other forces,” Air Marshal Nur Khan said. He said that he was the most disturbed man on the day, instead of feeling proud.

Air Marshal (retired) Asghar Khan while handing over the command to Nur Khan had not briefed him about any impending war because he was not aware of it himself. So, in order to double check, Nur Khan called on the then Commander-in-Chief, General Musa Khan.

Under his searching questions Gen Musa wilted and with a sheepish smile admitted that something was afoot. Lt. Gen. Malik Akhtar Hussain who led the operation said the same thing. Nur Khan’s immediate reaction was that this would mean war.

A still incredulous Nur Khan was shocked when on further inquiry he found that except for a small coterie of top generals, very few in the armed forces knew about ‘Operation Gibraltar’. He asked himself how good, intelligent and professional people like Musa and Malik could be so ‘naive, so irresponsible’.

For the air marshal, it was unbelievable. Even the then Lahore garrison commander had not been taken into confidence. And governor of West Pakistan, Malik Amir Mohammad Khan of Kalabagh did not know what was afoot and had gone to Murree for vacations.

It was at this point that he felt like resigning and going home. But then he thought such a rash move would further undermine the country’s interests. Therefore, he kept his cool and went about counting his chickens — the entire air force was too young and too inexperienced to be called anything else then — and gearing up his service for the D-day.

The miracle that the PAF achieved on September 6, to a large extent, is attributed to Nur Khan’s leadership. He led his force from up front and set personal example by going on some highly risky sorties himself. But he credits Asghar Khan for turning the PAF as a highly professional, well oiled and dedicated fighting machine since he was named its chief in 1957.

The performance of the Army did not match that of the PAF mainly because the leadership was not as professional. “They had planned the ‘Operation Gibraltar’ for self-glory rather than in the national interest. It was a wrong war. And they misled the nation with a big lie that India rather than Pakistan had provoked the war and that we were the victims of Indian aggression”, Air Marshal Khan said.

This in short is Nur Khan’s version of 1965 war, which he calls an unnecessary war and says that President Ayub for whom he has the greatest regard should have held his senior generals accountable for the debacle and himself resigned.


Khaleej Times Online - Ayub misled nation in ’65 war: Nur Khan
 
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