1965 War Documentary Fath-e-Mobin

[Joe Shearer]

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Anyway, chatting with you guys has been fun and all but I think we're done here, see you all later.

P.S Joe you have been ignored, so don't bother replying to me.

Heh. At long last, sense dawns. Honestly, my candid assessment is that this is one of the most ignorant young members to join in recent times. There is only one other that even begins to be comparable (and he will remain unnamed).

But there's another one of these idiot savants on the horizon. He claims that the Poona Horse had its sign removed from the battlefield (translate: naam o nishan mita diya gaya). So that means that his English is poor, but his history is ten times worse. Unfortunately, he refuses to come back in.

 

[MilSpec]

Unlike Islamabad and Rawalpindi, Lahore and Sialkot were the subject of numerous Indian assaults, you most certainty wanted it..

And thus it became the objective? great logic...

ACM Nur Khan said it perfectly "Since the 1965 war was based on a big lie and was presented to the nation a great victory, the Army came to believe its own fiction and has used since, Ayub as its role model and therefore has continued to fight unwanted wars — the 1971 war and the Kargil fiasco in 1999."

Just a reminder about ACM Nur Khan before you even thinking of dismissing his views on the matter
Hilal-e-Jurat
Hilal-e-Shujaat
Hilal-e-Quaid-i-Azam
Sitara-e-Pakistan

PAF Base Chaklala was renamed as PAF Base Nur Khan in 2012

 

[Sneaker]

You know what I meant, don't be a grammar Nazi. And our claim was (last time I checked) all of Kutch, so 10% of Kutch=10% of our claim on Kutch. I'm clearly a Maths genius for coming up with that one, am I right?

Rann of kutch is one part of whole of erstwhile kingdom of Kutch (or called Kuchch, Cuchch, Cutch sometimes). Since the king (or called Rao) acceded to India, there was no claim on kutch itself by pakistan.

 

[deckingraj]

@deckingraj

Got to hand it to him. He is capable of speaking the most arrant nonsense without batting an eyelid. Let's see how you counter this breath-taking flight of logic. I'm waiting in keen anticipation.

Will try but with due respect Sir...the generations on both sides have been brought up by spewing lot of nonsense...we were little lucky being a democracy however the side effects of that can be seen in 62...there were lot of efforts to hide the misdeeds of political class....our neighbours get to see the details of misdeeds of political class but nothing when it comes to Army....

 

[Sneaker]

He claims that the Poona Horse had its sign removed from the battlefield (translate: naam o nishan mita diya gaya)

Is that what he means? LOL.. I was scratching my head.. who on earth puts up a sign in a battle field?

 

[Joe Shearer]

Will try but with due respect Sir...the generations on both sides have been brought up by spewing lot of nonsense...we were little lucky being a democracy however the side effects of that can be seen in 62...there were lot of efforts to hide the misdeeds of political class....our neighbours get to see the details of misdeeds of political class but nothing when it comes to Army....

Nicely put.

That is why Asghar Khan wanted a commission of enquiry to ascertain the real facts about these three conflicts, 1965, 1971 and 1999. Just to find the truth and put it before the Pakistani public, not to punish anyone or to reward anyone.

Is that what he means? LOL.. I was scratching my head.. who on earth puts up a sign in a battle field?

Somewhere, in Bradford or Mirpur, or perhaps in Multan, there must be a factory like a cookie cutter producing these kids. It is slightly unsettling. I suppose we have our equivalent.

 

[PaklovesTurkiye]

Please Read Before Posting All you Posting Gloating Over Some Army Advertisement Which wrongly printed

Unlike pakistan India Has Well Maintained Historical Archives And War history reports

Read Report of Your Cold war Allies USA that Time How there Embassy in Karachi Reporting back to state department about Your War propaganda and lies you Solding to your People

Above is a Telegram from the Embassy of the United States in Karachi: "Continuing propaganda regarding achievements of Pak forces seems to have convinced most that only Pak forbearance saved the Indians from disaster." (Look what you Cold war Ally Said About your Establishment )


This you own Medea Exposing Your Military About Propaganda you Fed your people With

In India there is commission Setup After Every war and Action And detailed Report is tabled in Parliament

Here read the Complete 1-14 Chapters of Entire 1965 War Details is Available Publically if you are Historical Student as claim read it

Source :
© History Division, Ministry of Defence, Government of India
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/ARMY/history/1965war/275-war-history-1965.html





What is Total Count Territory Lost By Pakistan Before ceasefire


Over 1,840 km2 (710 mi2) of territory lost (primarily in Sialkot,Lahore, and Kashmir sectors

• Read In his book titled The greater game: India's race with destiny and China, David Van Praagh wrote[8] –

India won the war. It gained 1,840 km2 (710 sq mi) of Pakistani territory: 640 km2 (250 sq mi) in Azad Kashmir, Pakistan's portion of the state; 460 km2(180 sq mi) of the Sialkot sector; 380 km2 (150 sq mi) far to the south of Sindh; and most critical, 360 km2 (140 sq mi) on the Lahore front. Pakistan took 540 km2 (210 sq mi) of Indian territory: 490 km2 (190 sq mi) in the Chhamb sector and 50 km2 (19 sq mi) around KM


Read What US State Department of History Written in His Records of War

• According to the Office of the Historian within the U.S Department of State:[124]

Conflict resumed again in early 1965, when Pakistani and Indian forces clashed over disputed territory along the border between the two nations. Hostilities intensified that August when the Pakistani army attempted to take Kashmir by force. The attempt to seize the state was unsuccessful, and the second India-Pakistan War reached a stalemate.



Read What US State Department of History Written in His Records of War

• According to the Office of the Historian within the U.S Department of State:[124]

Conflict resumed again in early 1965, when Pakistani and Indian forces clashed over disputed territory along the border between the two nations. Hostilities intensified that August when the Pakistani army attempted to take Kashmir by force. The attempt to seize the state was unsuccessful, and the second India-Pakistan War reached a stalemate.


A declassified US State Department letter that confirms the existence of hundreds of "infiltrators" in the Indian-administered part of the disputed Kashmir region. Dated during the events running up to the 1965 war.(Operation Gibraltar Pretext of Starting 1965 war )

I don't know what you're talking about....These telegrams can be send during, before and after the war which means having different analysis of situation to situation....American perspective aligning with India doesn't mean India has everything all right and happy.....What makes me unable to understand that you decided to celebrate 1965 war just recently (not surprising as nationalists due to their patriotism always go and claim beyond logic and bring embarrassment) while Pakistan has been celebrating this war since 1965 as "defense day 6th of September"....What should i believe about this? That Indians suddenly came to know that they won that war or Pakistan is right when we say we won the war?.....

I m not much in military stuff and war history but This war can be called DRAW as both evacuated their occupied territories of each other after reaching to agreement.....

 

[third eye]

Yes I remember that there was armoured brigade named Puna Horse Pakistan even removed their sign form battle field

What ??!!!

Did you think all this by yourself or did someone help you with it ?

What does the bold part mean ?? or is it a literal ( poor version) of something ?

You say your remember .. implying that either your were there or read it somewhere . Which is it ?

Or .. did you mistake this forum for ' Stupid & funny from all over the world " & made a post here by mistake " ?

 

[deckingraj]

First of all good to see that you are trying to explain your point...however would appreciate if you can also try and put yourself in my shoes..believe me i am trying my best as well...

India was willing to take it in 71 because the influx of Bangaldeshi refugees was ruining your country, and you saw an oppurtunity to damage Pakistan thinking the civil war would have made it easy, when it obviously didn't.

Fair enough however how is it different from 65...if going after dhaka can actually damage Pakistan then why not in 65?? After all that was the intent..right?? Civil war or no Civil war...East pakistan was militarily a weaker target than west...do you agree??..if yes then why would be go after a formidable target vs a weaker target to begin with??

If India went after Dhaka, it wouldn't have the significance of Lahore or Sialkot. East Pakistan was never considered as valuable as the Western mainland, it was an afterthought, we treated the Bangladeshis and their country poorly and couldn't care less about them, taking Dhaka wouldn't have the same affect as taking a major Pakistani city in the Western mainland, it was the smarter decision to go for the more valuable target. Going for both would have been risky, so one had to be chosen.

Fair enough..Dhaka was perhaps not as significant as lahore..however yet it resulted in full scale war with Pakistan and India managed to break the country into two...don't you think Dhaka was after all not that insignificant?? That brings to the original question...why not in 65...what changed in just 6 years?? As said civilian unrest was a perfect alibi to square the misdeeds of PA in 65...This talk about refugees straining us and all that are not the real reasons...if Pakistan can take millions of Afghan refugees for decades then hell India could have taken as well..no??

The goal was to also take Lahore and Sialkot, if India wanted to just apply pressure you didn't have to try and break into the main cities, you could have just stayed at the outskirts and focused more attention on Kashmir itself.

Hmmm fair enough...here is the explanation..We were finding it tough to hold you guys in kashmir...why because you caught us there pants down.....so we opened another front just to east the pressure...now that doesn't mean that we would have mind had Lahore/Sialkot and for that matter Rawalpindi/Islamabad had fallen...do you see the difference...The idea was to relieve onslaught and pressure in kashmir...Lahore/Sialkot was a prefect front..however Pakistan did a brilliant defense..nobody deny that....India was not that bothered because the real objective of saving kashmir had already been achieved..in other words my objective was achieved and thus have no reason to further up the ante...in short cease fire was not a problem....along with all other ridiculous and disgusting level of mistakes(or sins shall i say)...

Now given the military adventure was an abject failure however how on this earth you expect the same establishment to accept that they failed in their objective when 1 PA chap was equal to 20 baniyas?? They would not...It just didn't stop here...Siachen...kargil are some of the areas where your Army was found wanting...however how does the average Pakistani looks at it?? Baniya backstabbing and US winning kargil for India..Leave India aside...when US violates your air-space then it is due to cowardice of civilians...Do u see a pattern?? As explained to Joe earlier - all the miscalculations of civilian leaders are shielded from public in this part of the world...it took decades for masses to come to terms that Nehru was the real reason we got screwed in 61...similarly Army is shielded on your side...

 

[Hellfire]

@The Next Door

Still waiting for your answer, O great one.

@hellfire

We have another amateur historian here. Would you like to watch? Or are you sensitive to excessive blood?

You recall you mentioned that at times you stroll? i do that quite often ...

I shall certainly enjoy what is about to roll out! Blood is something which always attracted me .....

Let the show begin!!! LOL!

 

[deckingraj]

I don't know what you're talking about....These telegrams can be send during, before and after the war which means having different analysis of situation to situation....American perspective aligning with India doesn't mean India has everything all right and happy.....What makes me unable to understand that you decided to celebrate 1965 war just recently (not surprising as nationalists due to their patriotism always go and claim beyond logic and bring embarrassment) while Pakistan has been celebrating this war since 1965 as "defense day 6th of September"....What should i believe about this? That Indians suddenly came to know that they won that war or Pakistan is right when we say we won the war?.....

I m not much in military stuff and war history but This war can be called DRAW as both evacuated their occupied territories of each other after reaching to agreement.....

India has been celebrating kargil since 99...however i have seen a lot of Pakistani's claiming that it was US who denied Paksitan a handsome victory...does that prove anything to you...fact is that Pakistan did put a good defense of Lahore which has been sold to Pakistanis simply deleting of why the defenses had to be put in the first place...As far as India goes we goofed up a lot...PAF did pretty well against their rival as well thanks to very effective pre-emptive strike...IN was simply a spectator in the whole affair and the ridiculous level of miscommunication which was provided to the then PM was too embarrassing for the whole saga to be treated as a victory...The current govt. is just putting things into right perspective that may be did have a poor records to show yet we managed to achieve our objective and save the day...though many including me don't buy that argument....

As far as Pakistan is concerned then it is you who need to decide if you want to straighten up the historical records or no...frankly wont change one bit for your neighbours...

 

[pakdefender]

Indian PM died after finding out the true magnitude of the loss , the indian defeat in 65 meant that never again india tried to gatecrash Pakistan , no matter what

 

[Hellfire]

Sorry, my bad. But my military history is still good, you can bark about it being wrong all you want but that won't change the facts.

Which you seem to be twisting, nay murdering in cold blood right? For a person who knows as much about military history as human beings know about origin of life, you are remarkably - remarkable!

 

[pakdefender]

Indians were forced to retreat , meaning kicked in the back on a one way ticket

They were beaten blue!

Indian Army target was Lahore Cantt , it failed and remembers its beating till this day , hence never again tried the same

 

[Hellfire]

The goal was to also take Lahore and Sialkot, if India wanted to just apply pressure you didn't have to try and break into the main cities, you could have just stayed at the outskirts and focused more attention on Kashmir itself.

I hope you do realise that unlike your source being your second hand knowledge, you are actually engaged with people who have been on the ground and who are accepted by Pakistani seniors and professionals also as professional, right?

That being said, are you aware of the topography of the then CFL and adjoining areas in Kashmir, also the topographical layout of Area across IB in Jammu (you guys recognised it as IB in Karachi Agreement of 1948) and also military principles of siege in modern warfare?

Also, do you understand the concept of Node, Internode, GTI? Indeed, are you aware of the nuances of urban and built up area fighting?

If not, suggest read up/ask, understand and then re-engage.

So far, except for your observation on overall war of 1965 being a stalemate (but a political defeat for Pakistan due to non attainment of objective of Kashmir and relative 'victory' for India due to ability to defend Kashmir) and 1971 being a win for India, the rest of your history is seriously contorted and in need of life support measures at the earliest.

Thanks

Indian PM died after finding out the true magnitude of the loss , the indian defeat in 65 meant that never again india tried to gatecrash Pakistan , no matter what

Which history book are you reading?

Again mere bravado won't help ... anyways you are becoming a seriously boring person with your ignorance. I found it ticklish at first but now not.

Please check you history .. and stop posting nonsense!