17 Indian Army soldiers killed in Uri attack

[Joe Shearer]

Allow me to specifically answer here. Who do we deal with? We have to deal with who is in power today. Unfortunately/fortunately it is NS. That is the hard fact. Inspite of all the deaths today, I do not see any reason to disengage politically. There are common challenges on the horizon. It serves us to have a strong PA working against these elements. That is what I have always been saying on this forum. What happens in these incidents wherein the GPS coordinates have given us the origin point of the ingress, is that incremental costs below threshold will be imposed. That will happen.



We suffer from it too. Rahul Gandhi the unique is there for all to see. Plus the Yadavs et al. But still we are trying. That is why .. Indian policy is to maintain a political relationship. There are far too many vested interests at work in this scenario.

I had raised my query as to why Burhan Wani had to be killed now, when things were on upswing with Modi and NS engaging with each other?
We had that guy under observation 24x7 for six years!

@Joe Shearer You remember my asking this question and speculating about the need and timing?

Absolutely. About the timing and the handling of the news. You did do that, right at that time, and in hindsight, it was so appropriate a question.

Fair enough, So I shall ot insist you further on this topic.
I understand your reason for being 'Absent'. But Sire always enlighten us with your deep knowledge and in-depth analysis which no troll can ever dream to match

I will happily respond to serious questions by serious questioners.

This thread horrified me, which is why I felt it needed to make an exception to my rule to stay away.

 

[salarsikander]

I will happily respond to serious questions by serious questioners.

I hope I am included in that list, am I ?

 

[Hellfire]

you got it

I think the attack will come from Kabul side. they will start firing on villagers from the boundary and LoC as well. I pray for the safety of the poor people who might be ambushed and killed on accusation of crossing the border. the people in dehli have no shame and its their policy statement to give us befitting reply


+

Alternate can be a limited Parakaram 2 .... forces you to move your troops east to realign .. renders your CI ops in West back by a few months to weeks due to the 'vacuum' of withdrawing forces .....

A prolonged deployment will be troublesome with incremental pressure on western provinces.

makes sense?

 

[Spectre]

AFAIK, nobody does this sort of thing without war breaking out. Do you want a war between two nuclear states?



That is the whole point, isn't it? Why should you and I sit and decide what will satisfy US about the situation, and why on earth should we two of us imagine that the entire IA needs to have its task defined for itself, and to be briefed about what concerned Indian civilians would like, as guarantees that the national security is indeed in good hands?

Please take a look at the consequences of excessive Indian public opinion-forming and opinion-sharing at the time that the Nehru government was engaged in a tense discussion with the Chinese. That pressure of public opinion forced Nehru and the External Affairs Ministry into a corner. Now we are told we need to do that all over again, and that public opinion has once again to be appeased.

Remind me who said,"History repeats itself; the first time it is a tragedy, the second time a farce."



Please don't write with such sweeping brush-strokes. WHO will prove whether or not there was state sponsorship? How much can be discovered of the relationship of the deep state, especially of their most secretive and clandestine part, with the perpetrators of cross-border crimes? These are easy to say in Internet posts, and almost impossible in the real world.

@nair This is in broad response to you too..

Most of us are civilians - We have a hard enough life - work hard, earn a living for our family and trust in Govt and by extension Govt controlled army to protect us from those who seek to harm us or destroy our way of life and freedom.

I personally have witnessed maoist violence in Jharkhand and was in Ahmedabad and Mumbai when terror attacks took place. Such attacks fills us with sense of inadequacy and impotency . Moresover if we happen to loose a beloved one in such circumstances.

These are not acts of God! If there was a murder we expect the murderer to be punished and so is the case in these terror strikes - we expect perps to be bought to heel. BUT instead we see - no consequences being bought upon the offending parties.

@nair and @hellfire you guys say - punishment happens outside the public eye - What good is such an action to us those who have suffered from such terror. We get no closure and that rage continues to build up.

Now @Joe Shearer - there is a lot of merit in what you are saying. Intellectually I agree with most of your points - but it doesn't satisfy that victim in me and others which demands revenge. We have been told by our Governments and our Military - That it is Pakistan which is to blame for terror attacks, for our suffering, told in unambiguous words without any qualifications. In our Mind Pakistan has already been judged and pronounced guilty - so when we see no punishment being meted out due to reasons you have stated - we feel hollow.

The one point where I disagree with you intellectually is this - Role of Civilians in defining the task for our military. Civilians and public opinion for good or bad have complete authority to define the role - Isn't this how things work in democracy? We elect our leaders to follow our wishes and these leaders direct the military to execute our wishes. Now Military has freedom to choose the tactics, timings and plans but the overarching goal is defined by us..

Regards

 

[Hellfire]

it was a sad incident, human lives were lost. However if this post attack efficiency of Indian intelligence that have uncovered Pakistan's hand behinde in 24 hours or less have been present before the attack, this could have been prevented. Or perhaps it is easier to balme it in someone else rather than admitting to the actual reasons and understanding the situation.

GPS grids point to origin in Pakistan-held-Kashmir. Confirmed.

@hellfire you guys say - punishment happens outside the public eye - What good is such an action to us those who have suffered from such terror. We get no closure and that rage continues to build up.

Conflict management versus conflict resolution .......

for latter, you need political relationships! Please understand that. You can not perpetuate hostilities till infinite time period.

Most importantly, 17 is a figure hardly a drop for us in terms of casualty. Let me be brutally honest

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Alternate can be a limited Parakaram 2 .... forces you to move your troops east to realign .. renders your CI ops in West back by a few months to weeks due to the 'vacuum' of withdrawing forces .....

A prolonged deployment will be troublesome with incremental pressure on western provinces.

makes sense?

ya seen it in 2008 when we launched operations in South Waziristan and Muhmand Agency.. India mobilised forces all along the working boundary . in response we also moved our forces to the east

 

[Hellfire]

ya seen it in 2008 when we launched operations in South Waziristan and Muhmand Agency.. India mobilised forces all along the working boundary . in response we also moved our forces to the east

That is what can happen at most.

Anyways .. its a wait and watch. Hopefully sanity prevails and things are not allowed to go off grid.

Cheers

 

[Irfan Baloch]

True.... Such statements where thrown by politicians after those 190 odd innocent guys lost their life in mumbai......

no sir I am talking about the current Interior minister and NSA ...not the Mumbai time.

 

[notorious_eagle]

GPS grids point to origin in P0K. Confirmed.

Sir

Source for the GPS Coordinates?

This is a fallacy. We are fine with status quo, we are not making advances on P0K, we are not sending RSS goons to Balochistan and FATA to blow themselves up. In short we are not initiating and perpetuating hostilities.

One way to end conflicts is to surrender which is essentially what we would be doing if we are resigned to these attacks without a public response.

Not RSS, but certainly arms and weapons to elements in Balochistan and FATA that want seperation from Pakistan. And i know, this is where we agree to disagree.

 

[nair]

Most of us are civilians - We have a hard enough life - work hard, earn a living for our family and trust in Govt and by extension Govt controlled army to protect us from those who seek to harm us or destroy our way of life and freedom.

It is very natural to feel in that way... Infact if some one doesnt feel that way then there is something wrong with him or he is not a civilian (in our standards)

I personally have witnessed maoist violence in Jharkhand and was in Ahmedabad and Mumbai when terror attacks took place. Such attacks fills us with sense of inadequacy and impotency . Moresover if we happen to loose a beloved one in such circumstances.

Absolutely.......

These are not acts of God! If there was a murder we expect the murderer to be punished and so is the case in these terror strikes - we expect perps to be bought to heel. BUT instead we see - no consequences being bought upon the offending parties.

Well pros and cons have to be analysed..... and i guess we should trust the govt on this...... No point in putting more pressure on them to take a call which they would not have taken normally.......

@nair and @hellfire you guys say - punishment happens outside the public eye - What good is such an action to us those who have suffered from such terror. We get no closure and that rage continues to build up

These punishment was not for those who has suffered..... Those punishment are for those who has committed this....

 

[Hellfire]

Sir

Source for the GPS Coordinates?

Hi. Long time indeed.

GPS as recovered from the militants with pre-programmed Grid Reference and marked maps and the matrices thereof.

But that is besides the point. I am more concerned over own failure and the propensity to blame Pakistan ...

 

[coffee_cup]

If at all there's a covert op we won't come to know about it for next few years.
I just wish carpet bombing the training camps was a possibility.

We wish, we could do something similar to those Indian "cultural centres" inside Afghanistan.

I have been saying it for the last many years, Indians policy of sponsoring terrorism on one hand and playing the victim card at the same time is not going to fool everyone all the time. At some time, it is bound to backfire massively...

 

[nair]

no sir I am talking about the current Interior minister and NSA ...not the Mumbai time.

I think you are reffering to the speech made by current NSA....... Well That was made when he was a retired officer enjoying his retired life....... He might have not had any clue of his appointment as NSA when he made that speech.....We have our retired generals who goes for such speeches and we know what they do .....Interior minister.... Well he is a politician.....

But that is besides the point. I am more concerned over own failure and the propensity to blame Pakistan ...

This is how it should be looked at......

 

[Hellfire]

This is a fallacy. We are fine with status quo, we are not making advances on P0K, we are not sending RSS goons to Balochistan and FATA to blow themselves up. In short we are not initiating and perpetuating hostilities.

Your post is tangential. Conflict resolution process was initiated with Modi-NS meet, derailed by Burhan Wani incident. I had raised a red flag then itself, why kill him now?

We are managing hostilities thereby perpetuating it. Military option is management, resolution is political. Please differentiate the two. You are looking at things in a narrow spectrum.

TOne way to end conflicts is to surrender which is essentially what we would be doing if we are resigned to these attacks without a public response.

Incorrect.
One way to surrender is to resort to military action.

This is a conflict of 'hybrid' nature of warfare.

I think @Joe Shearer and @Irfan Baloch will subscribe to this view of nature of warfare today as existing between the nations

You have the political, economic, diplomatic, military, information warfare and the non-state aspects of it. All need to be calibrated and coordinated to achieve your objectives. It starts with political and ends with political initiatives. Rest all are merely tools.

 

[Levina]

We wish, we could do something similar to those Indian "cultural centres" inside Afghanistan.

I have been saying it for the last many years, Indians policy of sponsoring terrorism on one hand and playing the victim card at the same time is not going to fool everyone all the time. At some time, it is bound to backfire massively...

Look who is talking! Lol
Pakistan has more at stake if it were to loose its control over Afghanistan than india. So no wonder your guys want to keep India out of the loop. Trust me even spreading these rumours about "cultural centres" aren't helping.
Nobody has ever pointed a finger at India for any terrorist explosion abroad.
Your case is weak.