17 Indian Army soldiers killed in Uri attack

[Areesh]

Well with the size, economy and military of pakistan is fraction that of India and the differential is increasing in India's favour, we all know only one who got any delusions are pakistanis.

Believe me you will much more accepted in the world when having passport of Baluchistan or Sindh rather than having passport of west punjab aka pakistan. Currently all the security agencies go on alert as soon as they spot green pakistani passport. Sad state of affairs for west punjab.

Delusions and more delusions.

 

[Spectre]

Please think for a moment what you are asking for.

You are asking the Indian Army to say in public that it has violated an international boundary and committed acts of violence, perhaps including murder, when there has been no such action by the Pakistan Army itself - by agents and proxies, perhaps, but not by the Army direct. Even in cases of ambushes of IA soldiers on our own side of the LOC, there is seldom, if ever, overt evidence that it was action by the other side's Army.

And all this to raise morale? Whose morale? The morale of those who made the terrible mistake of imagining that the posturing and bragging of some desperate for power politicians for the real thing? Or is it Arnab Goswami's morale? Perhaps that of G. D. Bakshi? As far as the IA is concerned, the morale of IA soldiers will recover in remarkably quick time.

Do we need to justify ourselves? If so to whom? International community which doesn't give two hoots about the constant infiltration and attacks we suffer? It is only after 9/11 we get some sympathy but no concrete action from global community. Have there been any sanctions put on Pakistan after Mumbai attacks which is a well documented case of Pakistani sponsorship of terror - No! Instead within a few years they were awarded with more military hardware as aid.

To me it is more the matter of intelligence I am not privy too - Either these latest attacks (Pathankot and Uri) are state sponsored or they are not and non state actors slip by through holes in security net on both sides.

In case of first, action is justified and in case of 2nd political dialogue is only option.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Why did you present that interview? (The interviewer was Maroof Raza, a hawk, btw). Musharraf said a lot of incriminatory things in that. It kind of weakens the Pakistani case. Or perhaps you don't agree? I'm puzzled; I'd have kept this interview as discreetly tucked away out of sight as possible.

 

[Hellfire]

I was not hinting at defence guys.... What i meant with that was the communication.....If there was an inside help, there would have been enough communication between this guy and the handlers..... That should have triggered the guys if they had any clue.....

Not likely. Civil areas are in near proximity. You have watchers outside the main gate itself passing off int to others. It is actually a game of cat and mouse.

If you need to win it militarily, you need to shoot at smallest suspicion, something that is not possible if you want to keep Kashmir as part of India.

 

[Areesh]

India will do what it has done in the recent past.. which is terror attacks on schools and mosques and on poor labourors and shopkeepers

time to catch more monkeys like Yadev before they hit us.

I have been saying the same since morning. India has very limited options against Pakistan. And the best one among them is TTP or to some extent BLA. I won't be surprised if New Delhi would be in communication with Kabul for future TTP attack.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Nawaz is not the asset for Modi. Nawaz is asset for Nawaz and he is right now trying to save his hide from being skinned and pinned in GHQ's officer's mess ante room.

It is even a US move and even Indian move to separate the PA from GoP in all dealings. Until and unless the democracy in Pakistan is strengthened, there is very less likelihood of peace between the two nations. I have no doubts about that.

The military has had far too prominent role in politics in Pakistan ... their raison d'etre goes if they allow civil domination of the political scenario to reach a peace with India, it is a brutal fact.

What stops PA from strengthening the democratic institutions and separating itself from the role of governance if it was genuinely keen on separating itself?

you are in a way correct. Nawaz has sold his soul to the devil and its all self interest but India has never made a secret of supporting Nawaz. remember Imran khan and Zardari are also civilians and democratic leaders

there is no such love there. I know we need to learn democracy much but look at us... its a sham a dynasty politics where sons and daughters are prepped to rule us. this self interest is not helping at all and what is not helping is the beating of war drums and world conquest mentality int he "democratic" India.

 

[nair]

1. I am sure we have real time surveillance over at least some of the terror infrastructure in P0K, if not then RAW should be taken to task. If these camps are nearby and fixed then an army/para commando raid on these camps presents the first target

I do not believe that RAW (we all know who works in these organisations) has that much capability to pinpoint Terror camp to the level of a surgical strike...... So you have no gurantee that you are going to strike at a terror camp or some other camp..... So a Big no...

2. If they have shifted back to not so easily reached locations after conducting these attacks then a missile strike (provided we have hard actionable intelligence and are assured of minimum civilian casualties) should be conducted

This is much worse than the first option..... Even if you killed hafees Saeed, it will be portrayed as an innocent guy who work 12 hours to earn his bread was killed in missile strike.... How would you counter that??? This was the exact reason why US did not use a missile to kill Osama....What if that missile miss the target???

3. Not in this case but in case of repeat of Mumbai like terror strike leading to substantial civilian casualties - combined ops with air strikes, special forces deployments and naval action should take place. WAR in a such a scenario cannot be avoided

Here you are looking at full fledged war....... If that is what GoI is looking at then all the other options can be tried.... because any way we are planning a war.....

 

[Spectre]

Here you are looking at full fledged war....... If that is what GoI is looking at then all the other options can be tried.... because any way we are planning a war.....

Only in case of provable beyond any question Pakistan sponsored terror strike on our civilians.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Do we need to justify ourselves? If so to whom? International community which doesn't give a two hoots about the constant infiltration and attacks we suffer?

AFAIK, nobody does this sort of thing without war breaking out. Do you want a war between two nuclear states?

To me it is more the matter of intelligence I am not privy too - Either these attacks are state sponsored or they are not and non state actors slip by through wholes in security net on both sides.

That is the whole point, isn't it? Why should you and I sit and decide what will satisfy US about the situation, and why on earth should we two of us imagine that the entire IA needs to have its task defined for itself, and to be briefed about what concerned Indian civilians would like, as guarantees that the national security is indeed in good hands?

Please take a look at the consequences of excessive Indian public opinion-forming and opinion-sharing at the time that the Nehru government was engaged in a tense discussion with the Chinese. That pressure of public opinion forced Nehru and the External Affairs Ministry into a corner. Now we are told we need to do that all over again, and that public opinion has once again to be appeased.

Remind me who said,"History repeats itself; the first time it is a tragedy, the second time a farce."

In case of first, action is justified and in case of 2nd political dialogue is only option.

Please don't write with such sweeping brush-strokes. WHO will prove whether or not there was state sponsorship? How much can be discovered of the relationship of the deep state, especially of their most secretive and clandestine part, with the perpetrators of cross-border crimes? These are easy to say in Internet posts, and almost impossible in the real world.

 

[nair]

Only in case of provable beyond any question Pakistan sponsored terror strike on our civilians.

Do you think that this was not looked in to??? Especially after parliament attack and 26/11???.... I think GoI learnt better options which may not be available in public domain.... may be some of us knows a bit of it even may not like to discuss it......

 

[Irfan Baloch]

I have been saying the same since morning. India has very limited options against Pakistan. And the best one among them is TTP or to some extent BLA. I won't be surprised if New Delhi would be in communication with Kabul for future TTP attack.

you got it

I think the attack will come from Kabul side. they will start firing on villagers from the boundary and LoC as well. I pray for the safety of the poor people who might be ambushed and killed on accusation of crossing the border. the people in dehli have no shame and its their policy statement to give us befitting reply


+

 

[Hellfire]

you are in a way correct. Nawaz has sold his soul to the devil and its all self interest but India has never made a secret of supporting Nawaz. remember Imran khan and Zardari are also civilians and democratic leaders

Allow me to specifically answer here. Who do we deal with? We have to deal with who is in power today. Unfortunately/fortunately it is NS. That is the hard fact. Inspite of all the deaths today, I do not see any reason to disengage politically. There are common challenges on the horizon. It serves us to have a strong PA working against these elements. That is what I have always been saying on this forum. What happens in these incidents wherein the GPS coordinates have given us the origin point of the ingress, is that incremental costs below threshold will be imposed. That will happen.

there is no such love there. I know we need to learn democracy much but look at us... its a sham a dynasty politics where sons and daughters are prepped to rule us. this self interest is not helping at all and what is not helping is the beating of war drums and world conquest mentality int he "democratic" India.

We suffer from it too. Rahul Gandhi the unique is there for all to see. Plus the Yadavs et al. But still we are trying. That is why .. Indian policy is to maintain a political relationship. There are far too many vested interests at work in this scenario.

I had raised my query as to why Burhan Wani had to be killed now, when things were on upswing with Modi and NS engaging with each other?
We had that guy under observation 24x7 for six years!

@Joe Shearer You remember my asking this question and speculating about the need and timing?

 

[idune]

Do we need to justify ourselves? If so to whom? International community which doesn't give two hoots about the constant infiltration and attacks we suffer? .

CORRECTION: india is occupying Kashmir, Kashmiri people moving inside Kashmir is NOT infiltration its their birth right.
And it is india which is committing genocide in Kashmir, and Kashmiri people are attacked by almost 1 million of indian army and security force. So indians should stop acting as victim.

 

[nair]

the people in dehli have no shame and its their policy statement to give us befitting reply

True.... Such statements where thrown by politicians after those 190 odd innocent guys lost their life in mumbai......

 

[Hellfire]

Fair enough, So I shall ot insist you further on this topic.
I understand your reason for being 'Absent'. But Sire always enlighten us with your deep knowledge and in-depth analysis which no troll can ever dream to match

Unfortunately, there are far too many trolls. And I see you also getting buggered out with them nowadays.....