1 big terrorist attack on indian soil will increase tension between both countries and may lead to a limited war and it can happen very soon. F 16 is mature product as compared to JF 17 and PAF top leadership understands that and as per defensive doctrine of PAF F 16's will be used to intercept the swarms of MKI which it can do quite well with AIM 120 C and supportive electronic countermeasures.
15 Jordanian F-16 for sale
- Thread starter Windjammer
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Already planned and budgeted for in block-III with ECCM/ECM upgrades to retrofit to Block I & II
No need for high usage when it is not needed, composites aren't some miracle magic and future blocks have composites in areas where they are needed
Provides no beneifts to already low RCS. Please understand RCS and how it is measured. You can have a stealthy aircraft but if it has missiles hanging off it, that increases the RCS to a base level which would make ANY further RCS reduction in the fuselage redundant.
Airframes have practical limits, they are not rockets.
What advantage will supercruise bring to the JF vis a vis its cost? Please advise in terms of our operational requirements.
Unrealisitc expectations out of airframe. There is a practical limit to what each airframe and design can and cannot do.
What makes you think it will not? What is the planned weapons package of the JF-17 that is somehow inferior to that fielded by other fighters?
Impractical with the budget of $250-300 million that I told you about.
Impractical as the platform is not mature nor do we have the funding for it.
Please see the times I have used impractical for your suggestions.
Windjammer
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Not sure if this been posted before.
TAI in Talks to Upgrade Pakistani F-16s
ANKARA, Turkey — Tusas Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI) is negotiating with Pakistan to upgrade 74 Pakistani Air Force (PAF) F-16 fighters, company officials said.
“The negotiations are being held through our Pakistani representative,” a TAI official said. “We are hopeful about an eventual deal in view of our excellent relations with PAF.”
If finalized the deal will involve upgrades on a batch of 74 PAF F-16 aircraft, including 14 fighters Pakistan will acquire from Jordan.
But for any Turkish-Pakistani deal a US go-ahead is required.
“We are in talks [with the Pakistani officials] but it is not certain that we shall win the contract,” the TAI official said. “These [Pakistani] aircraft will need a US permission for any upgrade program.”
In an earlier upgrade program for 41 F-16s, Pakistan wanted the job to be done locally but failed to win US permission. But the US agreed that TAI could carry out the upgrade work.
In September 2014, TAI delivered the last batch of four upgraded F-16s to PAF. That program involved avionics and structural modernization.
TAI, which assembled F-16 fighter jets in Turkey in the 1980s and 1990s, today manufactures parts for Boeing helicopter-maker Sikorsky. The company also is a participant in the multinational Joint Strike Fighter program and the A400M, known in Turkey as the Future Large Aircraft.
TAI has upgraded scores of Turkish F-16s, too. But in a more ambitious program the company has been designing an indigenous Turkish fighter aircraft.
“Pakistan wants the new upgrade program to be done locally, like in the first program,” said a Turkish procurement official. “Local upgrade work is their first choice but if they fail to win the US permission for that they will probably go for the TAI option, like in the previous deal.”
A team of TAI and Turkish procurement officials will visit Pakistan in July for detailed talks on the F-16 upgrade program.
A Turkish official said that Ankara expects contract negotiations with Pakistan, including potential US approval for TAI’s upgrade deal, would take around two years.
“There is a lot to discuss, negotiate and discuss and negotiate again,” said one procurement official familiar with the contract.
He said that at this stage it is not clear what the Pakistani upgrade program will involve.
“The [Pakistani] requirement is not clear in terms of technological concept,” the official said. “It is not clear at this stage what upgrades would be involved and how much the work will cost.”
The previous TAI-PAF contract covering upgrades on 41 aircraft was worth $64.5 million. The 2008 deal saw TAI upgrade Pakistan’s older and then-newly acquired surplus F-16s to Block-52+ standard from 2010 onward.
Industry sources say if the Pakistani requirement is similar to that in the previous contract the new deal could be around $100 million.
Turkey and Pakistan traditionally have had good political relations. In recent years Pakistan has become an emerging market for Turkey’s defense companies, including a deal for the midlife upgrade of Pakistani F-16s, and Turkish engineering support for a logistical support ship for the Pakistani Navy.
A deal for a fleet tanker/replenishment ship was signed by Pakistan's Karachi Shipyard & Engineering Works and Turkish technology and engineering firm STM in 2014. The vessel will be built in Karachi under STM supervision and delivered in 2017.
But Turkish officials usually view Pakistan as “not rich enough in cash” to buy the equipment or work Turkish companies wish to sell. A large Turkish-Pakistani deal to help Pakistan build Turkish designed corvettes fizzled out in 2009 when Pakistan's economy tanked, and matters have hardly improved since then.
Yet Turkey also is trying to sell two more of its indigenous systems to Pakistan: the Hurkus, a basic trainer aircraft and the T-129, a helicopter gunship TAI produces under license from the Italian-British AgustaWestlan. For any deal to sell the T-129, however, Turkey must obtain US permission to export the LHTEC CTS800-4N engine powering the attack helicopter.
http://www.defensenews.com/story/de...4/tai-talks-upgrade-pakistani-f-16s/84854448/
TAI in Talks to Upgrade Pakistani F-16s
ANKARA, Turkey — Tusas Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI) is negotiating with Pakistan to upgrade 74 Pakistani Air Force (PAF) F-16 fighters, company officials said.
“The negotiations are being held through our Pakistani representative,” a TAI official said. “We are hopeful about an eventual deal in view of our excellent relations with PAF.”
If finalized the deal will involve upgrades on a batch of 74 PAF F-16 aircraft, including 14 fighters Pakistan will acquire from Jordan.
But for any Turkish-Pakistani deal a US go-ahead is required.
“We are in talks [with the Pakistani officials] but it is not certain that we shall win the contract,” the TAI official said. “These [Pakistani] aircraft will need a US permission for any upgrade program.”
In an earlier upgrade program for 41 F-16s, Pakistan wanted the job to be done locally but failed to win US permission. But the US agreed that TAI could carry out the upgrade work.
In September 2014, TAI delivered the last batch of four upgraded F-16s to PAF. That program involved avionics and structural modernization.
TAI, which assembled F-16 fighter jets in Turkey in the 1980s and 1990s, today manufactures parts for Boeing helicopter-maker Sikorsky. The company also is a participant in the multinational Joint Strike Fighter program and the A400M, known in Turkey as the Future Large Aircraft.
TAI has upgraded scores of Turkish F-16s, too. But in a more ambitious program the company has been designing an indigenous Turkish fighter aircraft.
“Pakistan wants the new upgrade program to be done locally, like in the first program,” said a Turkish procurement official. “Local upgrade work is their first choice but if they fail to win the US permission for that they will probably go for the TAI option, like in the previous deal.”
A team of TAI and Turkish procurement officials will visit Pakistan in July for detailed talks on the F-16 upgrade program.
A Turkish official said that Ankara expects contract negotiations with Pakistan, including potential US approval for TAI’s upgrade deal, would take around two years.
“There is a lot to discuss, negotiate and discuss and negotiate again,” said one procurement official familiar with the contract.
He said that at this stage it is not clear what the Pakistani upgrade program will involve.
“The [Pakistani] requirement is not clear in terms of technological concept,” the official said. “It is not clear at this stage what upgrades would be involved and how much the work will cost.”
The previous TAI-PAF contract covering upgrades on 41 aircraft was worth $64.5 million. The 2008 deal saw TAI upgrade Pakistan’s older and then-newly acquired surplus F-16s to Block-52+ standard from 2010 onward.
Industry sources say if the Pakistani requirement is similar to that in the previous contract the new deal could be around $100 million.
Turkey and Pakistan traditionally have had good political relations. In recent years Pakistan has become an emerging market for Turkey’s defense companies, including a deal for the midlife upgrade of Pakistani F-16s, and Turkish engineering support for a logistical support ship for the Pakistani Navy.
A deal for a fleet tanker/replenishment ship was signed by Pakistan's Karachi Shipyard & Engineering Works and Turkish technology and engineering firm STM in 2014. The vessel will be built in Karachi under STM supervision and delivered in 2017.
But Turkish officials usually view Pakistan as “not rich enough in cash” to buy the equipment or work Turkish companies wish to sell. A large Turkish-Pakistani deal to help Pakistan build Turkish designed corvettes fizzled out in 2009 when Pakistan's economy tanked, and matters have hardly improved since then.
Yet Turkey also is trying to sell two more of its indigenous systems to Pakistan: the Hurkus, a basic trainer aircraft and the T-129, a helicopter gunship TAI produces under license from the Italian-British AgustaWestlan. For any deal to sell the T-129, however, Turkey must obtain US permission to export the LHTEC CTS800-4N engine powering the attack helicopter.
http://www.defensenews.com/story/de...4/tai-talks-upgrade-pakistani-f-16s/84854448/
Windjammer
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@Oscar , @MastanKhan .
There are rumours that PAF is keen to put these aircraft through Service Life Extension Programme , which gives the air-frame life to around 12000 hours.
There are rumours that PAF is keen to put these aircraft through Service Life Extension Programme , which gives the air-frame life to around 12000 hours.
MastanKhan
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Hi,
That is what my thinking was-----but my surprise was what caused the Jordanians to openly advertise the sale.
Something must have conspired between these two---pakistan must not have done something that Jordan asked for---otherwise---this whole scenario of open advertisement does not make sense.
Windjammer
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Correct me if I'm wrong, isn't that the usual practice where a third party is also involved, even the like of Belgium openly advertised their fleet .
denel
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yes that is the most strangest thing - if one has agreed; what is the rationale for advertising unless it is for transparency with a preferred buyer in waiting
MastanKhan
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Hi,
Like---in the last procurement---we only found out when the aircraft deal was completely done and about to be delivered---.
Now Belgium and us do not have any affinity---so they may advertise as they seem fit.
denel
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Did you buy anything from Belgium? I thought it was Mirage only
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@Windjammer @MastanKhan
The Service Life Extension Programme , which gives the air-frame life to around 12000 hours.
is for Block 40s and Block 50s
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Please read this
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Lockheed is putting an F-16 through stress and fatigue testing in order to design a service life extension retrofit kit that would allow Block 40 and 50s to fly as many as 12,000h. That test programme should be complete in 2015.
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/a...res-to-usher-f-16-through-12000h-serv-409254/
The Service Life Extension Programme , which gives the air-frame life to around 12000 hours.
is for Block 40s and Block 50s
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Please read this
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lockheed is putting an F-16 through stress and fatigue testing in order to design a service life extension retrofit kit that would allow Block 40 and 50s to fly as many as 12,000h. That test programme should be complete in 2015.
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/a...res-to-usher-f-16-through-12000h-serv-409254/
Windjammer
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Ironically , last month it was reported that it's Jordan which offered these jets to Pakistan.
Pakistan may buy used F-16 jets from Jordan
THE NEWSPAPER'S STAFF REPORTER — UPDATED JUN 14, 2016 07:25AM
ISLAMABAD: Pakistan is considering a Jordanian offer to buy sixteen used F-16 jets in lieu of the eight advanced fighters it could not buy from the United States because of a financing row, but officials fear Washington could still throw a spanner in the works.
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@Windjammer @MastanKhan
This is the OFFICIAL Lockheed Martin news about F 16 Airframe Service Life Extension
This also talks about Block 40 and Block 50
http://www.lockheedmartin.co.in/us/news/press-releases/2015/june/F16-durability-testing.html
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The F-16 Full Scale Durability Test (FSDT) applies stress to the aircraft’s structure to represent actual aircraft usage and identify potential fatigue issues. FSDT results will be used to help design and verify Service Life Extension Program (SLEP) structural modifications for the U.S. Air Force and to support F-16 service life certification to 12,000 EFH.
The SLEP aims to extend the service life of up to 300 F-16C/D Block 40-50 aircraft.
This is the OFFICIAL Lockheed Martin news about F 16 Airframe Service Life Extension
This also talks about Block 40 and Block 50
http://www.lockheedmartin.co.in/us/news/press-releases/2015/june/F16-durability-testing.html
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The F-16 Full Scale Durability Test (FSDT) applies stress to the aircraft’s structure to represent actual aircraft usage and identify potential fatigue issues. FSDT results will be used to help design and verify Service Life Extension Program (SLEP) structural modifications for the U.S. Air Force and to support F-16 service life certification to 12,000 EFH.
The SLEP aims to extend the service life of up to 300 F-16C/D Block 40-50 aircraft.
Agent_47
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MastanKhan
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That is because Lockmart does not provide a current product page for upgrades of Block-15 aircraft. Please do a bit more thorough research on the topic before posting a conclusive statement. The SLEP program was carried out for the USAF's block 40/50 programs, the appropiate program for older blocks is Falcon UP & Falcon STAR
http://web.archive.org/web/20130516...il/PressReleases/36-b/2006/Pakistan_06-11.pdf
http://www.defensenews.com/story/de...4/tai-talks-upgrade-pakistani-f-16s/84854448/
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