15 Jordanian F-16 for sale

[denel]

Pakistan Blk-52 and Indian Upgraded Mirages if we compare their armories,overall avionics, Can you point out how M2K is on inferior level than that of Blk-52 ? I agree Electronic Warfare systems of Blk-52 surpasses -52. But if the news coming out of India is any indication, elements of spectra EW system would be inducted in -52.

it wont matter much friend. greek mirage 2k have knocked down two of turkish f-16s. there are just too many variable to compare vs on paper.

 

[notorious_eagle]

it wont matter much friend. greek mirage 2k have knocked down two of turkish f-16s. there are just too many variable to compare vs on paper.

Yes, because that F16 was flying on Training Missions unarmed, i wouldn't really call it a win. The Turk's had their fair of victories in Mock Dog Fights with the Greeks, but in the end frustration got to the best of a Greek pilot and he fired. In response, the TUAF flew Armed CAP's and dared the Greek AF to come forward and fight. The Greeks halted their flights, and in the end the entire TUAF squadron had to be moved because they were out for blood.

 

[Blue Marlin]

I think it's closer to US$300Bn

more than 300 billion

 

[GiG]

stats speaks for itself

F-16 Falcon 76-1-5
Gulf War (USA) 0-0-3
No-Fly Zones (USA) 2-0-0
Bosnia (USA) 4-0-1
Kosovo (USA) 1-0-1
Kosovo (Netherlands) 1-0-0
Kosovo (Portugal, Belgium, Denmark, Turkey) 0-0-0
Afghanistan (USA, Netherlands, Denmark, Norway) 0-0-0
Iraq (USA) 0-0-0
Syrian border clashes 1979-1986 (Israel) 6-0-0
Operation Opera (Israel) 0-0-0
Lebanon War (1982) (Israel) 44-0-0
Lebanon War (2006) (Israel) 3-0-0
Intifada (2000-present) (Israel) 0-0-0
Soviet-Afghan War (Pakistan) 10-0-0
Border clashes (Pakistan) 1-0-0
Kargil War (Pakistan) 0-0-0
Northwest border wars (Pakistan) 0-0-0
Aegean Sea clashes (Turkey) 1-1-0
Venezuelan Coup 1992 (Venezuela) 3-0-0

 

[Mav3rick]

Already planned and budgeted for in block-III with ECCM/ECM upgrades to retrofit to Block I & II

No need for high usage when it is not needed, composites aren't some miracle magic and future blocks have composites in areas where they are needed

Provides no beneifts to already low RCS. Please understand RCS and how it is measured. You can have a stealthy aircraft but if it has missiles hanging off it, that increases the RCS to a base level which would make ANY further RCS reduction in the fuselage redundant.

Airframes have practical limits, they are not rockets.

What advantage will supercruise bring to the JF vis a vis its cost? Please advise in terms of our operational requirements.

Unrealisitc expectations out of airframe. There is a practical limit to what each airframe and design can and cannot do.

What makes you think it will not? What is the planned weapons package of the JF-17 that is somehow inferior to that fielded by other fighters?

Impractical with the budget of $250-300 million that I told you about.

Impractical as the platform is not mature nor do we have the funding for it.

Please see the times I have used impractical for your suggestions.

Let me start off by saying that if our entire buget for PAF is USD 250-300 Million for the next 10 years then we may as well disband our Air Force and concentrate on PIA only. On the other hand, if our budget gets to the point of USD 5-10 Billion (10 years) for Air Force then we con continue our discussion.

I see the future to be of UCAVs, perhaps we should just quit the 4th/4.5th Gen now and concentrate on 6th Gen, which is going to be UCAVs with AI, the ability to hide themselves through multiple means and the identification of friend and foe at an stage where no human intervention would be required. These would always be in the air, always ready for combat and always loaded, they will use solar energy for flights. They will be able to fly higher then conventional Fighter Jets and lower too and will employ the next gen of stealth, Jamming and EW with highly evolved laser weapons onboard to protect against A2A, A2G and G2G missiles.

We can get there ahead of the others if we start now, with trusted partners in China, Turkey and perhaps even Saudi Arabia (SA can no longer rely on US).

I say the above because I am deeply concerned with the massive, ever increasing, disparity that we have with India vis-a-vis conventional weapons. While IAF already has an overwhelming advantage over PAF with 270 MKIs plus other Aircraft, along with top of the line AWEACS, this advantage is set to widen with India inducing the more advanced Tejas (compared to JFT) and Rafael which will be a game change........or more like game OVER!

 

[SQ8]

Let me start off by saying that if our entire buget for PAF is USD 250-300 Million for the next 10 years then we may as well disband our Air Force and concentrate on PIA only. On the other hand, if our budget gets to the point of USD 5-10 Billion (10 years) for Air Force then we con continue our discussion.

I see the future to be of UCAVs, perhaps we should just quit the 4th/4.5th Gen now and concentrate on 6th Gen, which is going to be UCAVs with AI, the ability to hide themselves through multiple means and the identification of friend and foe at an stage where no human intervention would be required. These would always be in the air, always ready for combat and always loaded, they will use solar energy for flights. They will be able to fly higher then conventional Fighter Jets and lower too and will employ the next gen of stealth, Jamming and EW with highly evolved laser weapons onboard to protect against A2A, A2G and G2G missiles.

We can get there ahead of the others if we start now, with trusted partners in China, Turkey and perhaps even Saudi Arabia (SA can no longer rely on US).

I say the above because I am deeply concerned with the massive, ever increasing, disparity that we have with India vis-a-vis conventional weapons. While IAF already has an overwhelming advantage over PAF with 270 MKIs plus other Aircraft, along with top of the line AWEACS, this advantage is set to widen with India inducing the more advanced Tejas (compared to JFT) and Rafael which will be a game change........or more like game OVER!

There is no way to estimate the budget out of the $10 billion that is allocated for the entire armed forces. As such, the current cash on hand for immediate allocation is $250-300 million. We can either use it, or return to the federal government.

The future is a lot of things that require investment to produce concrete realizable results. UCAV's are the realm of a R&D budget running in billions and not of some pauper state. Lets stick to reality please as none of the partners you have mentioned are focusing on UCAV at that rate.

Your concerns arent alone but we have to be realisitc in how to deal with them the best we can with WHAT WE CAN AFFORD.

 

[Basel]

Pakistan Blk-52 and Indian Upgraded Mirages if we compare their armories,overall avionics, Can you point out how M2K is on inferior level than that of Blk-52 ? I agree Electronic Warfare systems of Blk-52 surpasses M2k But if the news coming out of India is any indication, elements of spectra EW system would be inducted in M2k

India also have Israeli EW pod which can be mounted on their M2Ks.

 

[GiG]

250+ JF 17
100+ F 16 Blk 52 Standard
20+ HQ-9 batteries
will be enough to deter any Indian misadventure which is quite affordable

 

[SQ8]

Contribute something good ? What do you think I am - a philanthropist ?

I am here for a singular purpose that I excel at - Trolling !

And trolling is an extremely positive contribution in and on itself, if you must know !

It fosters harmony between diverse and varied communities on PDF many of whom don't like or agree with each other and in the midst of all that chaos and disunity I stand, with my trolling arsenal at disposal, as a beacon of peace, harmony and fraternity.

Yes..I - the Great I - who steps in every now and then to break the ice, to diffuse situations, to keep trolls in check (counter-trolling is, after all, an important skill too) and spread love, happiness and the betterment of all men regardless of caste, creed, country or culinary prowess !

OMG...I am so emotional right now !

And you know what I do to trollers.. no lube involved. Now stop it and start doing something positive.

 

[nomi007]

indian have more better aircraft
but kia kar lia un se
our F-16s are doing a great job
even F-7P & MIRAGES
ON THE OTHER SIDE
IF U SEE INDIAN MEDIA WHO CRY ON CHINESE PREPARATIONS
PAF PLANNERS ARE DOING A GREAT JOB
IN LIMITED BUDGET

 

[Armstrong]

And you know what I do to trollers.. no lube involved. Now stop it and start doing something positive.

What the heck ? Did you just delete my posts !

Why you...no one...I say no one...does that !

Don't you know who I am ?

Okay on a side note: I still don't know what your take on these F-16s is....All I read was your usual dose of pessimism in the previous couple of pages !

Does the acquisition of these F-16s makes a material change for us ?

 

[SQ8]

What the heck ? Did you just delete my posts !

Why you...no one...I say no one...does that !

Don't you know who I am ?

Okay on a side note: I still don't know what your take on these F-16s is....All I read was your usual dose of pessimism in the previous couple of pages !

Does the acquisition of these F-16s makes a material change for us ?

Whether the acquisition is happening is unclear but most likely. The question is how much more life can we get out of them. There are particular structural programs that replace the most worn out sections to "give" some of the aircrafts project life of 8000 hours back to it. Since each component takes wear and tear differently, this life is on paper extended beyond 8000 hours although technically the components still do 8000 hours.
Think of it as wear and year on a car within city or highway driving. Even if the PAF can wrangle 8-10 more years out of these aircraft(not all 15 ofc, just those that have the lowest hours), and can do it within a reasonable budget of $200 million or so; they are still a potent addition.


Regardless of all the usual "buy this, buy that" ramblings on the forum along with every other claim of "my chacha or that forum's member said this" buttsy, the PAF will have 80 F-16s, 150 JFs and 50 odd PG's with the Mirages being reduced in numbers as the JF replaces them till it gets a 5th gen around 2021-4.. said this 5 years ago, still stand by it. Not one has been able to disprove that events are not moving towards just that.

 

[Armstrong]

Whether the acquisition is happening is unclear but most likely. The question is how much more life can we get out of them. There are particular structural programs that replace the most worn out sections to "give" some of the aircrafts project life of 8000 hours back to it. Since each component takes wear and tear differently, this life is on paper extended beyond 8000 hours although technically the components still do 8000 hours.
Think of it as wear and year on a car within city or highway driving. Even if the PAF can wrangle 8-10 more years out of these aircraft(not all 15 ofc, just those that have the lowest hours), and can do it within a reasonable budget of $200 million or so; they are still a potent addition.


Regardless of all the usual "buy this, buy that" ramblings on the forum along with every other claim of "my chacha or that forum's member said this" buttsy, the PAF will have 80 F-16s, 150 JFs and 50 odd PG's with the Mirages being reduced in numbers as the JF replaces them till it gets a 5th gen around 2021-4.. said this 5 years ago, still stand by it. Not one has been able to disprove that events are not moving towards just that.

That sounds awfully depressing; can a mere 300 aircraft get the job done ?

I was led to believe that SAMs can serve as a very potent force multiplier; if we don't have the cash and we're not sure if we sustain war for long doesn't it make more sense to buy some Chinese SAMs or now that our relations are improving with Russia...try...TRY...to get something from the Russians !

 

[SQ8]

That sounds awfully depressing; can a mere 300 aircraft get the job done ?

I was led to believe that SAMs can serve as a very potent force multiplier; if we don't have the cash and we're not sure if we sustain war for long doesn't it make more sense to buy some Chinese SAMs or now that our relations are improving with Russia...try...TRY...to get something from the Russians !

Depends on what job are we talking about? Can a mere 300 aircraft protect against an attempt at limited aerial strikes or war? Yes they can do that well.
Can a mere 300 aircraft defend against the IAF in an all out war? They dont stand a chance beyond 4 days.

 

[denel]

Yes, because that F16 was flying on Training Missions unarmed, i wouldn't really call it a win. The Turk's had their fair of victories in Mock Dog Fights with the Greeks, but in the end frustration got to the best of a Greek pilot and he fired. In response, the TUAF flew Armed CAP's and dared the Greek AF to come forward and fight. The Greeks halted their flights, and in the end the entire TUAF squadron had to be moved because they were out for blood.

if i recall that was on two seperate occasions.