15 Jordanian F-16 for sale

[Armstrong]

Depends on what job are we talking about? Can a mere 300 aircraft protect against an attempt at limited aerial strikes or war? Yes they can do that well.
Can a mere 300 aircraft defend against the IAF in an all out war? They dont stand a chance beyond 4 days.

Can half a dozen strategically placed SAMs not add to their chances ?

 

[SQ8]

Can half a dozen strategically placed SAMs not add to their chances ?

To an extent, but if the IAF comes in full force(provided they can sort their lack of pilots out) there is no optimistic scenario for the PAF.

 

[RAMPAGE]

Depends on what job are we talking about? Can a mere 300 aircraft protect against an attempt at limited aerial strikes or war? Yes they can do that well.
Can a mere 300 aircraft defend against the IAF in an all out war? They dont stand a chance beyond 4 days.

Lets discuss this further. Multiple Indian Military bases are hit by Fidayeens and India blames Pakistan and JuD for the attacks. IAF responds with a strike on Muridke. IA starts mobilizing on the border and Pakistan has to retaliate and there is no doubt about about the war breaking out.

PAF has 300-350 F-16s, JF-17s and F-7PGs. F-16 and JF-17 fleets are equipped with all sorts of PGMs and SOWs. MAR-1 and a compact RAAD ALCM are also operational with JF-17.

How would you deny air superiority to IAF. How would you maximize their loses.How about hitting their aircrafts which are still on the ground?

 

[SQ8]

Lets discuss this further. Multiple Indian Military bases are hit by Fidayeens and India blames Pakistan and JuD for the attacks. IAF responds with a strike on Muridke. IA starts mobilizing on the border and Pakistan has to retaliate and there is no doubt about about the war breaking out.

PAF has 300-350 F-16s, JF-17s and F-7PGs. F-16 and JF-17 fleets are equipped with all sorts of PGMs and SOWs. MAR-1 and a compact RAAD ALCM are also operational with JF-17.

How would you deny air superiority to IAF. How would you maximize their loses.How about hitting their aircrafts which are still on the ground?

That could take an entire thread. So far I am trying to simulate such an actual scenario on the sim I have and building up the situation. But I have to be meticulous and also have to ensure that my poor PC can take it.
We can tell then.

 

[AsifIjaz]

oscar... I have been trying to get some knowledge around SLEP but the news for planned slep of 300 usaf f16s is constantly there. Is there any aircraft that has gone through slep for extending life to 10,000 - 12,000 hours. If there is then can you please refer me to it.
Adv thanks

 

[RAMPAGE]

That could take an entire thread. So far I am trying to simulate such an actual scenario on the sim I have and building up the situation. But I have to be meticulous and also have to ensure that my poor PC can take it.
We can tell then.

Yes, That would be great . Do tag me.

 

[SQ8]

oscar... I have been trying to get some knowledge around SLEP but the news for planned slep of 300 usaf f16s is constantly there. Is there any aircraft that has gone through slep for extending life to 10,000 - 12,000 hours. If there is then can you please refer me to it.
Adv thanks

Sure, essentially all F-16's were verified to be at a limit for 8000 flight hours based on a assumed stress level accrued over the years in a mixed usage in air to air and air to ground scenarios.

This had NOTHING to do with the block of F-16 but rather the usage. However, early on it was seen that certain airframes had taken on greater stress as compared to others(greater A2A training, heavy loads into combat, etc). That is when they started the program of FALCON UP and FALCON STAR to ensure that these airframes that had taken more stress; still made it to 8000 hours. That was done by replacing those components which they determined to be taking the most stress in operational use. Somewhat like you might replace certain chassis components or tie rods and other panels in a car that has been driven on bad roads to ensure it lasts longer.

Now, after having such a long operational time with F-16s and with the F-35 delayed; the USAF and Lockheed Martin conducted a study to see if the life on the newest F-16s could be extended beyond the 8000 hour life since that 8000 hour life was a safety limit defined earlier. For this, they identified how the F-16s were spending time flying( air combat training, ground sorties etc) in terms of the stress it was putting on them. Then, they determined that certain airframes had lived less stressful "lives" than what was initially determined. This meant that components of these aircraft could perhaps go beyond 8000 flight hours safely based on similar usage types. To calculate this more accurately, they did computer simulations of usage and stress on various parts
http://www.lockheedmartin.com/us/news/press-releases/2015/june/F16-durability-testing.html

Based on that testing, they determined that if particular key airframe components were replaced AND the usage(and type of usage) of the aircraft monitored; the aircraft can be guaranteed an airframe life of at least 11000 hours.
As you would have seen in the link, that simulated F-16 is at 25000 hours!.

Hence, the USAF SLEP is NOT confined to just new F-16s nor is it just a program of changing old parts out with the new. It is a carefully monitored program that looks at each airframe to see what stress it is going through and how long that particular airframe can actually take before it is unsafe to use.

Therefore, the SLEP is NOT restricted to the USAF nor to the latest F-16s as incorrectly implied by other members; it is infact a carefully monitored program to allow aircraft to serve beyond their recommended lifecycle.

 

[Blue Marlin]

That could take an entire thread. So far I am trying to simulate such an actual scenario on the sim I have and building up the situation. But I have to be meticulous and also have to ensure that my poor PC can take it.
We can tell then.

i thought you purchased a sager laptop during christmas? that should run sims just fine
or do you have a craptop like me

 

[SQ8]

i thought you purchased a sager laptop during christmas? that should run sims just fine
or do you have a craptop like me

I almost bought it. So right now my good old 2012 model is still slugging it out. Which is ok since it still has a somewhat ok 2G card and a retrofitted i7.. still, the game lags when I put too many players into a fight.

 

[khanasifm]

Turkish ???
http://www.ssm.gov.tr/home/projects/Sayfalar/proje.aspx?projeID=294

 

[AsifIjaz]

@Oscar : many thanks. Much apprecaite it

 

[Humble Analyst]

oscar... I have been trying to get some knowledge around SLEP but the news for planned slep of 300 usaf f16s is constantly there. Is there any aircraft that has gone through slep for extending life to 10,000 - 12,000 hours. If there is then can you please refer me to it.
Adv thanks

F 16 has the potential for 12000 hours somebody posted a link in this thread about a US study to this effect

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

On that you can blame the entire nation. But as such, it is better to hear tales from the very seniors as to where the rot set in and where the few brave with some spine fought such rot back. There are horrifying tales of corruption and mismanagement in procurement, but nothing that tops the national average.

However, in the words of the person responsible for this whom I am honoured to know personally.

Out of the three branches, (and @MastanKhan would to surprised to hear this out of my post) the PAF is the MOST corrupt in terms of average kickbacks and dual dealings. That does not mean that the Army isnt corrupt or does not have higher monetary value in corruption, but that within a ratio of officers engaging in corruption; the PAF (and PN close behind) leads. The army simply has too many officers trying to get the same pie and also had a greater surveillance of MI on it.
@Bilal Khan 777 may not agree, but I take that man's words very seriously.

that does not mean they are complete traitors either. Because in the national average of corrutpion in Pakistan which is generally high(top to bottom); it is still wrangled by more honest officers as well. To sum it up, the PAF has a lot of corruption but unlike the Army; lesser "yes men" as well. So its a constant tussle.

On this note, the much maligned Adm Masour ul Haq actually introduced some very good reforms in the Navy and also did positive spares deals that benefited the PN in the long run; what can you say to that?

The three armed services are as corrupt as the society they hail from. Army has the largest share of defence budget, hence most corruption in defence procurement occurs in GHQ. HOWEVER, PAF has its fiascos, starting from the SAGEM deal, to as recent as SPADA. I have taken names in the past, but then people scream murder. People who are directly involved were rewarded, promoted and serving, on highly coveted posts of DCAS Projects.

However, on the matter of corruption, the question only is that are commissions being given/taken, or are bad decisions being taken?

Mansoor was a great Admiral. He first sold off PNSC ships for scrap, and then paid Zardari for it, who intern made him CNS out of turn. Mansoor then took commissions on the MCMV deal, but he paid heavily for it. As an officer, he has had no second in his decision making power. So is common for other great leaders with corruption "allegations."

BR

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

To an extent, but if the IAF comes in full force(provided they can sort their lack of pilots out) there is no optimistic scenario for the PAF.

How come a country of 1.2b people can't produce enough pilots to settle for a 0.8 ratio?? If all the Indians in this forum gang up they can come up with a better ratio!!!!!!

The three armed services are as corrupt as the society they hail from. Army has the largest share of defence budget, hence most corruption in defence procurement occurs in GHQ. HOWEVER, PAF has its fiascos, starting from the SAGEM deal, to as recent as SPADA. I have taken names in the past, but then people scream murder. People who are directly involved were rewarded, promoted and serving, on highly coveted posts of DCAS Projects.

However, on the matter of corruption, the question only is that are commissions being given/taken, or are bad decisions being taken?

Mansoor was a great Admiral. He first sold off PNSC ships for scrap, and then paid Zardari for it, who intern made him CNS out of turn. Mansoor then took commissions on the MCMV deal, but he paid heavily for it. As an officer, he has had no second in his decision making power. So is common for other great leaders with corruption "allegations."

BR

Honest folks usually get crucified...

 

[Tameem]

How come a country of 1.2b people can't produce enough pilots to settle for a 0.8 ratio?? If all the Indians in this forum gang up they can come up with a better ratio!!!!!!

There are two basic reasons for that low ratio what i learn from this forum;

1. There is a Tarnish image of a fighter pilot mostly due to Mig-21 (flying coffins) in ordinary Indian public.
2. A Fighter Pilot get very less paid compares to a commercial pilot.