14 More F16 for PAF (Approved by US)

[karan.1970]

95 F16 C/D is decent number for Pakistan airforce if we had another order on that we should be par with other regional airforces in region

just curious.. How are you totalling upto 95 C/D?

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

just curious.. How are you totalling upto 95 C/D?

Well average healthy person's heart beat is between 83 beats and 110 beats per min , so I am using the figure of 95 , if I used more then 95 , F16 Block C/D

heart attack time

 

[ejaz007]

Sorry bro this isn't the case. The PAF did order 18 Block-52+ with an option for 18 more, but these 14 F-16s are A/B models being acquired through the Excess Defence Articles (EDA) program. The option for 18 more Block-52+ still stands as well.

As most will know, the PAF originally planned for 50~75 Block-52+ in 2005 - but the earthquake and financial difficulties led to it being cut to 18 with an option for 18 more (36). However, I still believe there is scope for the original figure as long as production at Lockheed Martin continues for the next few years. This depends on whether new deals, such as Iraq, Romania, etc, are secured - certainly possible. The PAF did invest in raising infrastructure for Block-52+; and there is no doubt that it is an advanced yet highly matured as well as proven fighter.

My information was based on this article:

http://www.f-16.net/news_article4048.html

I think EDA is a different story. If you remember the original deal than delivery of the banned 28 fighters was also agreed. The overall strength of PAF F-16 shall be something like this:

32 Existing F-16 A/B
28 Banned F-16 to be delivered (some already delivered through EDA)
18 Block 52 F-16
14 Block 52 under negotiation

This makes a total of around 92 which was what PAF wanted originally around 100 planes.

 

[fatman17]

My information was based on this article:

http://www.f-16.net/news_article4048.html

I think EDA is a different story. If you remember the original deal than delivery of the banned 28 fighters was also agreed. The overall strength of PAF F-16 shall be something like this:

32 Existing F-16 A/B
28 Banned F-16 to be delivered (some already delivered through EDA)
18 Block 52 F-16
14 Block 52 under negotiation

This makes a total of around 92 which was what PAF wanted originally around 100 planes.

sounds reasonable!

 

[TaimiKhan]

My information was based on this article:

http://www.f-16.net/news_article4048.html

I think EDA is a different story. If you remember the original deal than delivery of the banned 28 fighters was also agreed. The overall strength of PAF F-16 shall be something like this:

32 Existing F-16 A/B
28 Banned F-16 to be delivered (some already delivered through EDA)
18 Block 52 F-16
14 Block 52 under negotiation

This makes a total of around 92 which was what PAF wanted originally around 100 planes.

18*5=90

5 Sqd strength being visioned.

 

[Quwa]

My information was based on this article:

http://www.f-16.net/news_article4048.html

I think EDA is a different story. If you remember the original deal than delivery of the banned 28 fighters was also agreed. The overall strength of PAF F-16 shall be something like this:

32 Existing F-16 A/B
28 Banned F-16 to be delivered (some already delivered through EDA)
18 Block 52 F-16
14 Block 52 under negotiation

This makes a total of around 92 which was what PAF wanted originally around 100 planes.

I guess we'll have to wait and see.

 

[Areesh]

My information was based on this article:

http://www.f-16.net/news_article4048.html

I think EDA is a different story. If you remember the original deal than delivery of the banned 28 fighters was also agreed. The overall strength of PAF F-16 shall be something like this:

32 Existing F-16 A/B
28 Banned F-16 to be delivered (some already delivered through EDA)
18 Block 52 F-16
14 Block 52 under negotiation

This makes a total of around 92 which was what PAF wanted originally around 100 planes.

Don't we have 45 F-16 A/B right now?

 

[TaimiKhan]

Don't we have 45 F-16 A/B right now?

32 were there, 14 delivered, total goes to 46.

One crashed, thus 45 in total service.

Some reports say, these 14 delivered were for and from the 28 which were held back after sanctions imposed, thus if that is true, then out of these 28, 14 still pending to be delivered.

45+14=59

59+ 18 Blk 52s= 77

13-14 still to be desired to make it to 90, meaning 5 Sqd strength.

Here may be the news of more 14 Blk 52s may come into play.

But as Mark said, time will tell what is the real combination.

 

[aliyusuf]

H Khan from PakDef confirmed that they're EDA F-16A/Bs from the Military Attache in Washington D.C. Just in case you don't know, PakDef - in particular its members Usman Shabbir and H Khan - are credible sources of Pakistani military information. Both have also been approached for information by AFM, DefenseNews, etc.

I have the highest regard for Usman Shabbir, PShamim and H Khan. I have been a Pakdef member since 2004. I have been a member of the other Pakistani defence since 2003.

I also am a great admirer of your posts.

However, I have heard retd PAF officers on PTV and Duniya saying otherwise. Also their are other articles as well saying these are Block-52.

So till more compelling info/evidence comes along.

Best of Regards

 

[aliyusuf]

For now, I am thinking along the lines of ejaz007.

Regards

 

[Archie]

My information was based on this article:

http://www.f-16.net/news_article4048.html

I think EDA is a different story. If you remember the original deal than delivery of the banned 28 fighters was also agreed. The overall strength of PAF F-16 shall be something like this:

32 Existing F-16 A/B
28 Banned F-16 to be delivered (some already delivered through EDA)
18 Block 52 F-16
14 Block 52 under negotiation

This makes a total of around 92 which was what PAF wanted originally around 100 planes.

thats actually a pretty good point , but if you ask me , then pakistan will actually end up with double that number , the reason being many of the american allies will start moving towards the f35 after 2020 ,and these guys will be phasing out the f16 which are very old while some whose fighters are about 20-25 rs old will be planning to sell them of , now these are the plane which the PAF should be very interested in , coz these are likely to be in service of pakistani allies like turkey , UAE who will be willing to sell these fighters to PAF .
I think it will be quite similar to how pakistan acquired the large fleet of mirage 3/5 .
hence you guys should expect PAF to operate 180-200 f16 by 2025-30

 

[araz]

H Khan from PakDef confirmed that they're EDA F-16A/Bs from the Military Attache in Washington D.C. Just in case you don't know, PakDef - in particular its members Usman Shabbir and H Khan - are credible sources of Pakistani military information. Both have also been approached for information by AFM, DefenseNews, etc.

Mark
I know what Hkhan has said about these being Bl15s.Months ago, before this whole hoopla blew up, Muradk told me that PAF was negotiating with USA for 14 Bl 52s in addition to the current 18. I was asked to keep it quiet till the news came out and so never mentioned the source. This is obviously for your info and not ot blow my trumpet as I dont have a source in PAF as such.
Araz

 

[araz]

thats actually a pretty good point , but if you ask me , then pakistan will actually end up with double that number , the reason being many of the american allies will start moving towards the f35 after 2020 ,and these guys will be phasing out the f16 which are very old while some whose fighters are about 20-25 rs old will be planning to sell them of , now these are the plane which the PAF should be very interested in , coz these are likely to be in service of pakistani allies like turkey , UAE who will be willing to sell these fighters to PAF .
I think it will be quite similar to how pakistan acquired the large fleet of mirage 3/5 .
hence you guys should expect PAF to operate 180-200 f16 by 2025-30

PAF has a requirement/facilities of 110 F16 planes roughly. I dont think we would go much beyond that.If we gat a good deal we might just put a squadron in storage but other than that , this would be it. The time for F16 is drawing to a close and PAF has better and more upgradable option in Thunder and J10. Next acquisition would be that of JXX, unless something drastic happens. There has been talk of a fourth platform, but unless anything drastic happens, PAF is likely to stick to these 3 and wait for JXX. my 2paisas worth.
Araz

 

[Quwa]

Mark
I know what Hkhan has said about these being Bl15s.Months ago, before this whole hoopla blew up, Muradk told me that PAF was negotiating with USA for 14 Bl 52s in addition to the current 18. I was asked to keep it quiet till the news came out and so never mentioned the source. This is obviously for your info and not ot blow my trumpet as I dont have a source in PAF as such.
Araz

I don't doubt MuradK - there was even a JDW article from 2006 saying that PAF was interested in "33" additional F-16s to the 18 it ordered. Even PakDef's Usman Shabbir (the most credible in Pakistani circles) said that there is scope for additional new-built F-16s. There's a lot of information, we should wait a little bit for all this information to be put into order. But now we have multiple credible sources saying that the "14 F-16s" are EDA Block-15s, new-built C/Ds, etc. They may all be correct in the end.

 

[ejaz007]

Pakistan Air Force Inducts New U.S.-Provided F-16s into Fighter Fleet

June 27, 2010

Islamabad - U.S. and Pakistani officials commemorated the delivery of the first three of 18 new F-16 aircraft to the Government of Pakistan from the United States during an induction ceremony today at Shahbaz Air Base near Jacobabad, Pakistan.

"The induction of these advanced F-16s is a historic milestone for U.S.-Pakistan relations - both a symbolic and tangible demonstration of our strong partnership and the U.S. intent to stand beside Pakistan over the long-term as an important ally and friend," said Amb. Anne Patterson, U.S. Ambassador to Pakistan. "These aircraft underscore the promise made by the United States to support Pakistan to achieve our mutual goals of defeating violent extremists and establishing peace and security."

U.S. and Pakistani officials attending the ceremony included Air Chief Marshal Rao Qamar Suleman, Pakistan Air Force Chief of Air Staff; Amb. Patterson; U.S. Air Force Gen. Norton Schwartz, U.S. Air Force Chief of Staff; Air Marshal Mohammad Hassan, PAF Deputy Chief of Staff for Operations; U.S. Air Force Lt. Gen. Mike Hostage, U.S. Air Forces Central Command commander, and U.S. Navy Vice Adm. Michael LeFever, U.S. Defense Representative to Pakistan. Approximately 300 Pakistani and U.S. officials attended the event.

"Pakistan's new F-16s will give PAF pilots and Pakistan's military an unprecedented advantage against extremist groups who threaten Pakistan and the region by enabling precision targeting in all-weather conditions, during both day and night, while reducing potential for collateral damage," said Vice Adm. LeFever. "The aircraft will also enable increased tactical interoperability between the PAF, the U.S. Air Force and ISAF Coalition air forces - greatly bolstering our ability to jointly communicate, coordinate and work together to achieve common goals while boosting the PAF's status as a world-class air force."

The F-16 Block 52 represents the latest configuration of Lockheed Martin's 4th generation multirole fighter, offering additional fuel and payload capacity, new or improved avionics and sensors, and color cockpit displays with enhanced pilot/vehicle interfaces. The next batch of new F-16s is scheduled for delivery to Pakistan in August, with all 18 fighter aircraft arriving by January 2012.

In addition to the delivery of these new aircraft, the U.S. is working with the PAF to update 45 F-16s from its existing fighter fleet through the U.S. Foreign Military Financing security assistance program. When the updates are completed, these aircraft will have very similar capabilities to the new F-16s, to include advanced communications and a precision targeting system. The first batch of updated F-16s is scheduled to arrive in Pakistan in early 2012.

During the last three years, U.S. civilian and security assistance to Pakistan has totaled more than $4 billion. Assistance has included support for medical aid, school refurbishment, bridge and well reconstruction, food distribution, agricultural and education projects. In addition to the three new F-16 Block 52 fighter planes, other U.S. security assistance provided includes an earlier delivery of an additional 14 F-16 fighter aircraft, 10 Mi-17 and two Bell 412EP helicopters, two P-3C Orion maritime patrol aircraft, five fast patrol boats, 115 Howitzer self-propelled field artillery cannons, more than 450 vehicles for Pakistan's Frontier Corps, hundreds of night vision goggles, day/night scopes, radios, and thousands of protective vests and first-aid items for Pakistan's security forces. The U.S. also provided training for more than 370 Pakistani military officers in a wide range of leadership and development programs covering topics such as counterterrorism, intelligence, logistics, medical, flight safety, and military law.

Pakistan Air Force Inducts New U.S.-Provided F-16s into Fighter Fleet (06/27/2010) - U.S. Embassy Islamabad, Pakistan