13 out of world's top 20 polluted cities in India, only three in China

[Gibbs]

You really exposed them. Good work.

Dont want to get in the argument about who is more polluted but the source provided has less credibility than Wikipedia, Anybody with internet access can manipulate the data on that site

And it does not need rocket science to know this cos anybody who have traveled to India and China would know immediately which one is more polluted or dirty just by breathing it's air and from all the the dirt and filth on it's streets and environs

 

[Bussard Ramjet]

Pollution is a serious problem in any industrial country, especially when this country is undergoing massive urbanisation and industrialisation. No matter Japan, Germany, US or UK, they were all once very polluted and there were deadly environmental crisis. But, they gained their goal, becoming a developed and maturely industrial country. China is just following their path, the so-called China model is just following successful industrial models.

What amazes me is with their tiny manufacturing capacity, they still create world-class polluted cities. And what amazes me even more is their lack of monitoring and their denying of their own situation. Their indifference towards pollution is just the same as their indifference to many of their serious social problems, like caste, sanitation, malnutrition, etc. Once confronted of these topics, the first reaction of Supa Powans is to question people's nationality and to derail the real discussion towards meaningless comparison.

@Bussard Ramjet Could you elaborate for us, where does Indian pollution come from when your country only has a tiny industry?

1. High Density in some areas.
2. Lack of Infrastructure, specially disposal systems
3. Poor emission standards, and check on them.
4. Presence of a Dry Desert in vicinity
5. Poor people using open defecation
6. Excessive use of cheap coal, cow dung cakes, etc for cooking, which produce a lot of pollution

I have already told this story before, I will repeat.
I had a course in my college on Environment which is a government mandated course for colleges. We had a case study, about the pollution in a small town where there used to be very excessive pollution, especially in winters.

The local people created all hue and cry about that, and forced the local authorities to ban all industrial production for 10 straight months. In reality there was no effect on actual pollution. Careful analysis than displayed that all pollution was due to cheap coal, firewood, etc being burned to cook and keep warm.

So, A lot of pollution will come down if there is better access to electricity or gas in homes. Coal, that too cheap, and that too burned in very ineffective small home fires leaves a lot of airborne particulate matter.

 

[AndrewJin]

Yes, the pollution in China comes from world's largest industrial base, world's largest concrete/steel infrastructure and world's largest addition of cars every year. Actions needed to clamp down.

But where does India's pollution come from?

I fully accept my hometown Wuhan being in Top 100 PM10 cites(but not in Top 100 PM2.5).

We have six or more metro lines under construction(currently 3 lines in use, one new line every year from 2014)
We have several Intercity HSRs under construction.
We have numerous urban rapid roads under construction.
We have at least 5000km of standard access-controlled expressway in the province
Wuhan Iron and Steel produces roughy 40% of the steel production of India.

So pollution in Wuhan comes from production and urbanisation. This is the price we have to pay. And we have to suffer for our next generations. Facing the problem, we have our plans.
Heavy industry by Yangtze River

Urbanisation and upgrading transportation

Standard access-controlled expressways are coloured dark yellow

 

[Bussard Ramjet]

What amazes me is with their tiny manufacturing capacity, they still create world-class polluted cities. And what amazes me even more is their lack of monitoring and their denying of their own situation. Their indifference towards pollution is just the same as their indifference to many of their serious social problems, like caste, sanitation, malnutrition, etc. Once confronted of these topics, the first reaction of Supa Powans is to question people's nationality and to derail the real discussion towards meaningless comparison.

@Bussard Ramjet Could you elaborate for us, where does Indian pollution come from when your country only has a tiny industry?

There may perhaps be some people who would become defensive, but trust me I live in India, everyone is aware and recognizes the problem. It is also being mitigated to some extent, obviously not at the speed of China.

 

[Imran Khan]

public need development food and jobs money go to hell air

 

[AndrewJin]

The local people created all hue and cry about that, and forced the local authorities to ban all industrial production for 10 straight months. In reality there was no effect on actual pollution. Careful analysis than displayed that all pollution was due to cheap coal, firewood, etc being burned to cook and keep warm.

So, A lot of pollution will come down if there is better access to electricity or gas in homes. Coal, that too cheap, and that too burned in very ineffective small home fires leaves a lot of airborne particulate matter.

I tag u since you are far more reasonable and always stick to the core.
Your explanation makes sense to me

But I have a question, what will happen, one day, when Indians will consume large amount of steel and cement? Pollution in China large comes from industry, not people's daily activity.(during APEC, all factories around Beijing stopped production, blue sky and healthy air immediately). When the pollution not just comes from industry but also largely come from ordinary people, what's the plan? If u wanna increase people's living standards and give them access to clean energy, the process itself brings terrible pollution, very contradictory, isn't it? @Bussard Ramjet

 

[HRM YANG]

Share some live pictures, 30minutes ago I was on highway from Guangzhou to Shenzhen.

 

[HRM YANG]

Here is Shenzhen QIANHAI economy area which proposed by Xi JINPING. Please notice the harbour in the distance, here would be the bellwether of CHINESE new form of economy stride, environmental friendly and efficiency.

 

[AndrewJin]

And it does not need rocket science to know this cos anybody who have traveled to India and China would know immediately which one is more polluted or dirty just by breathing it's air and from all the the dirt and filth on it's streets and environs

Few people travel to India. Beijing provides more bedding of starred hotels more than entire India.

Yes, the pollution in China comes from world's largest industrial base, world's largest concrete/steel infrastructure and world's largest addition of cars every year. Actions needed to clamp down.

But where does India's severe pollution come from?

@Bussard Ramjet has explained from his perspective. So according to his theory, India's pollution is not about industry. This is actually the most horrible part, India is already heavily polluted before massive industrialisation and urbanisation. Pollution of major industrial countries comes from industry and there are methods to cope with it. China is upgrading her industrial structure just like what other developed countries were doing after initial industrialisation.

PM2.5 database, WHO 2014

 

[Shotgunner51]

@Bussard Ramjet has explained from his perspective. So according to his theory, India's pollution is not about industry. This is actually the most horrible part, India is already heavily polluted before massive industrialisation and urbanisation. Pollution of major industrial countries comes from industry and there are methods to cope with it. China is upgrading her industrial structure just like what other developed countries were doing after initial industrialisation.

The World Health Organization 2014 was an authoritative source, and an updated one. Let's check this.
WHO | World Health Organization

It is instrumental to know the sources of pollution in order to combat the situation effectively.

On China, the pollution in China comes from world's largest industrial base, world's largest concrete/steel infrastructure and world's largest addition of cars every year. The WHO 2014 Report has shown pollution-combat actions are effective so far, let's continue.

The question is, given tiny industrialization, tiny infra, etc., where does India's severe pollution come from?

Bussard Ramjet has given some answers, let's explore.

 

[AndrewJin]

@Shotgunner51 Yes, China's most polluted cities, like some in Hebei Province, produce steel and cement more than entire India. That's why provinces around Beijing are the most polluted in China and they make Beijing heavily polluted as a result. This is changing when the economic structure of China is changing. Low-end manufacturing in China is moving out, mainland China is following SK, Taiwan and Japan, on the way of joining East Asia's success.

On China, the pollution in China comes from world's largest industrial base, world's largest concrete/steel infrastructure and world's largest addition of cars every year. The WHO 2014 Report has shown pollution-combat actions are effective so far, let's continue.

It's always a mystery, when most Indian members here try to hide.
@Bussard Ramjet has given us his own ideas. But we need more authoritative datas and researches if they have done any, since their monitoring of pollution is still on a very small scale. And the situation is likely to become more and more serious when Modi is trying to implement his Make in India initiatives, which means more cement and more steel. Adding industrial pollution to already serious pollution, Good Luck!
India overtakes US as third biggest steel producer - timesofindia-economictimes

The question is, given tiny industrialization, tiny infra, etc., where does India's severe pollution come from?

Bussard Ramjet has given some answers, let's explore.

PM2.5(most hazardous air pollutant)

PM10

 

[Peaceful Civilian]

Reminded me of this

Right side is India, left side is Bhutan.

This is very bad sewerage system. ..Hope they allocate some funds for sewerage system instead of unnecessary military deals.

 

[AndrewJin]

This is very bad sewerage system. ..Hope they allocate some funds for sewerage system instead of unnecessary military deals.

They are building millions of toilets which are sewerage-free.
A toilet that doesn’t require a sewerage system | The Indian Express

 

[Bussard Ramjet]

I tag u since you are far more reasonable and always stick to the core.
Your explanation makes sense to me

But I have a question, what will happen, one day, when Indians will consume large amount of steel and cement? Pollution in China large comes from industry, not people's daily activity.(during APEC, all factories around Beijing stopped production, blue sky and healthy air immediately). When the pollution not just comes from industry but also largely come from ordinary people, what's the plan? If u wanna increase people's living standards and give them access to clean energy, the process itself brings terrible pollution, very contradictory, isn't it? @Bussard Ramjet

I don't really have very straight forward answers. I agree with you to a certain extent.

I just hope we are able to manage it. Obviously the pollution must be coming from somewhere, also the density in India is high but not so high that nothing can be done.

Also, we have the example of Delhi. Delhi 2 decades back was really dirty, with actual ash flying around, when stricter rules were enforced. Vehicles were changed, all taxis and autos were mandated to have CNG, and factories were pushed further away. The result was a hell lot cleaner air. The air pollution has come to fore again in the last 5-7 years.

I tag u since you are far more reasonable and always stick to the core.
Your explanation makes sense to me

But I have a question, what will happen, one day, when Indians will consume large amount of steel and cement? Pollution in China large comes from industry, not people's daily activity.(during APEC, all factories around Beijing stopped production, blue sky and healthy air immediately). When the pollution not just comes from industry but also largely come from ordinary people, what's the plan? If u wanna increase people's living standards and give them access to clean energy, the process itself brings terrible pollution, very contradictory, isn't it? @Bussard Ramjet

And didn't you block me?

 

[AndrewJin]

I don't really have very straight forward answers. I agree with you to a certain extent.

I just hope we are able to manage it. Obviously the pollution must be coming from somewhere, also the density in India is high but not so high that nothing can be done.

Also, we have the example of Delhi. Delhi 2 decades back was really dirty, with actual ash flying around, when stricter rules were enforced. Vehicles were changed, all taxis and autos were mandated to have CNG, and factories were pushed further away. The result was a hell lot cleaner air. The air pollution has come to fore again in the last 5-7 years.



And didn't you block me?

Well, I only block someone for a couple of days.

I think to admit something is not a shame. I do admire your attitudes towards problems India is facing. And I also admit pollution in China is a serious problem but there is always hope.

Are u in Delhi?