$1.65-bn SAR aircraft deal likely to take off during Modi’s Japan visit

[Rahul9090]

A pending deal involving purchase of 15 ShinMaywa US-2i Amphibious and Rescue (SAR) aircraft for $1.65 billion is likely to be sealed when Prime Minister Narendra Modi visits Japan shortly.

MoD sources said in march, a delegation of senior officials, including from the Navy, visited the facilities where the amphibious aircraft is being produced. They also sought to iron out issues related to modifications "that would allow Japan to export the aircraft to India without violating its self-imposed defence export restrictions".

A friend-or-foe identification system will be removed from the aircraft, a defence official said. Both countries had, at that time, also discussed the possibility of India being permitted to assemble the aircraft indigenously, giving it access to Japanese military technology. The deal was put on hold because of general election in India.

"The deal is significant for a variety of reasons. On the surface, it’s another indicator of growing cooperation between India and Japan on security matters. The deal is doubly significant in the context of India’s relations with Japan because once India clinches the deal, it will become the first country to purchase defence equipment from Japan since the latter’s self-imposed ban on defence exports began in 1967. The deal is important for Abe as it would open up Japan's defence industry for additional contracts with foreign partners,” said diplomatic sources.

Modi is expected to visit Tokyo enroute the BRICS summit in July, where he will meet with his counterpart, Shinzo Abe.

According to Japanese officials, the proposed sale of ShinMaywa US-2i amphibious, fixed-wing aircraft would not infringe on Japan's self-imposed ban on arms exports because the aircraft to be given to India will be unarmed and can be used for civilian purposes. The plane, built by ShinMaywa Industries (7224.T), could be outfitted for firefighting or as a kind of amphibious hospital and costs an estimated $110 million per unit. The plan is to deliver two aircraft and, then, assemble the rest of the planes with an Indian partner.

The Navy had issued requests for information on amphibian planes in 2010 to ShinMaywa, Canada's Bombardier for CL-415 platform, Russia's Beriev for Be-200 and US/German company Dornier for Seastar CD2. The Navy is also interested in Japanese patrol vessels and electronic warfare equipment as Tokyo moves further on easing its ban on military exports, the officials said.

$1.65-bn SAR aircraft deal likely to take off during Modi’s Japan visit - Financial Express

 

[Indo-guy]

@sancho , @Abingdonboy , @sandy_3126 , @Dillinger

Isn't the price tag for a craft that is intended for civilian purpose too big ?

 

[MKI 30]

Has Japan lifted the ban on military exports?

I believe this deal is just a stepping stone towards more lethal hardware.

Just to let know Japan that we are interested in forging a very deep relationship, India should sign the deal.

Co development would bring enormous benefit to our local Industry.

 

[saikumar]

great news

 

[he-man]

@sancho , @Abingdonboy , @sandy_3126 , @Dillinger

Isn't the price tag for a craft that is intended for civilian purpose too big ?

its a politically significant deal and must be clenched for breaking the ice.

 

[Abingdonboy]

@sancho , @Abingdonboy , @sandy_3126 , @Dillinger

Isn't the price tag for a craft that is intended for civilian purpose too big ?

It isn't armed but that doesn't make it a civilian plane. It will still be operated by the IN- the military so it is still a military plane. It's like saying the C-17 is for civilian purposes.


I think the price tag is justified, it is an exceptional a/c and will come in very handy for long-range SAR missions, insertion/extraction of SOFs and supplying of India's many island territories.

 

[Sergi]

It isn't armed but that doesn't make it a civilian plane. It will still be operated by the IN- the military so it is still a military plane. It's like saying the C-17 is for civilian purposes.


I think the price tag is justified, it is an exceptional a/c and will come in very handy for long-range SAR missions, insertion/extraction of SOFs and supplying of India's many island territories.

Is there any prohibition on IN to modify it ??? @sancho

 

[Abingdonboy]

Is there any prohibition on IN to modify it ??? @sancho

I don't know what kind of end-user agreement would come with it.

 

[special]

It isn't armed but that doesn't make it a civilian plane. It will still be operated by the IN- the military so it is still a military plane. It's like saying the C-17 is for civilian purposes.


I think the price tag is justified, it is an exceptional a/c and will come in very handy for long-range SAR missions, insertion/extraction of SOFs and supplying of India's many island territories.

it was nice if IN choose Be-200 instead of US-2i

 

[sancho]

Isn't the price tag for a craft that is intended for civilian purpose too big ?

Yes it is, it even incresed now as it seems, since the earlier report estimated the unit cost at $90 millions per unit and now it's at $110 milion!!! And that for an aircraft that is only used in SAR roles, without any advanced tech or weapon capability at all. The point however is, that the government of India is trying to increase the relations to Japan and this might be considered as a door opener.
The "Civil use" is mainly a term to go around the Japanese expert laws and if at all would only meant that we can't use them with weapons or so and at least on paper in the civil SAR role. Personally the Kawasaki C-2 might had been a more useful choice for us, as a procurement and a door opener.

Is there any prohibition on IN to modify it ???

Modify it in what way? For armed use most likely no, for fire fighting most likely yes, since that would be a civil use too.

 

[amitkriit]

India must never forget that Japan is a close US ally, and the US allies are usually more unpredictable than the US itself. We must not sign any deal without a good offset clause.

 

[Tshering22]

@sancho , @Abingdonboy , @sandy_3126 , @Dillinger

Isn't the price tag for a craft that is intended for civilian purpose too big ?

The 'Export' will be in civilian form; it doesn't mean BEL cannot put up its IFF and encrypted communication systems with jamming tech inside it.

That's what we did with C-130 and C-17 when we had to sign the LSA agreement which we didn't with Lockheed Martin.

Japan says it cannot sell us its tech for now; doesn't say that we cannot modify it.

Also, the Navy plans to use these jets as SAR and special amphibious missions aircraft (probably MARCOs unit might get a couple of them).

How much firepower do you nee for an SAR aircraft?

India must never forget that Japan is a close US ally, and the US allies are usually more unpredictable than the US itself. We must not sign any deal without a good offset clause.

Japan under Abe is different.

Take a look:

Japan-US Alliance: In danger of drifting apart?

They are strong friends but the difference of opinion is much more vocal this time.

Japan wants to focus on Asia. It is tired of focusing so much on west, that it forgets everyone around itself.

 

[MilSpec]

@sancho , @Abingdonboy , @sandy_3126 , @Dillinger

Isn't the price tag for a craft that is intended for civilian purpose too big ?

capabilities of the a/c are immense, and It will be multi purpose a/c for the CBG support. IN has pushed hard for this a/c and I suspect this flying boat will have quite a few aces up it's sleeve. Roles will range from elint, Airborne command post, supply system etc, with the capability to ferry stores from replenishment ship right upto the cbg if needed.

 

[sancho]

capabilities of the a/c are immense, and It will be multi purpose a/c for the CBG support

If that would had any importance for IN, they would had picked the Be 200, because it can carry more spare and supplies as well as passengers, or litters in MEDIVAC roles at higher speeds to and from the CBG. Also it's disadvantages of a longer take off range, wouldn't play a role anymore.
The US 2 on the other side offer good performance in patrolling a large area (at lower speeds), to take off and land at short distances, be it in SAR role or to supply remote Islands in the A&N chain. So these roles might had the main importance, but do they really justify more than $100 million per unit, especially if the actual demand of such aircraft is so low (15 only)?
Compare that to to price and game changing capabilities that a Rafale or a FGFA brings!

Btw, if support of the CBG has any importance for IN, they would also take V22's which now are down at around $70 million a piece, could be refuelled in air and actually land on the carrier itself while they are on the move and not force to stop at least 1 vessel to take over the supply.

 

[MilSpec]

If that would had any importance for IN, they would had picked the Be 200, because it can carry more spare and supplies as well as passengers, or litters in MEDIVAC roles at higher speeds to and from the CBG. Also it's disadvantages of a longer take off range, wouldn't play a role anymore.
The US 2 on the other side offer good performance in patrolling a large area (at lower speeds), to take off and land at short distances, be it in SAR role or to supply remote Islands in the A&N chain. So these roles might had the main importance, but do they really justify more than $100 million per unit, especially if the actual demand of such aircraft is so low (15 only)?
Compare that to to price and game changing capabilities that a Rafale or a FGFA brings!

Btw, if support of the CBG has any importance for IN, they would also take V22's which now are down at around $70 million a piece, could be refuelled in air and actually land on the carrier itself while they are on the move and not force to stop at least 1 vessel to take over the supply.

This is what I heard on this particular systems. Overhaul periods are almost twice of the any other comparable platforms. the Life cycle costs are incredibly low, Failure rates on component levels shows extreme quality engineering, apart from that documentation on calibration of key components along with the process and technician training is being also included in the package. I have known for sure that many times we have had to ground a/c's because we couldn't calibrate lvdt on actuators and transmitters on flow meters. Cost might look big but there is a good reason for charging that cost on quality.... If you look at copq on japanese defence articles, it will shame american and European manufacturers.