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Pakistan and Israel’s Secret Diplomacy

Solomon2 said:
You demand that your rants remain unchallenged? You can always talk to the mods and see what they say.
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You are only replying to what suites you , while ignoring the facts that lie infront of everyone to see. I am doing you a favor to save yourself from embarrassment. Maybe you can justify those ills in your country , may be some excuse!!
 
Solomon2 said:
The leaders of Egypt and Pakistan accepted that despite their citizens being killed in war by Israeli forces they could nonetheless pursue peace with the Jewish State.

And the French have made peace with Germany, the U.S. with Canada, and so on...

You don't have to "forget" to make peace and establish good relations.
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Egypt did but Pakistan didn't. Egypt did it for a reason. It was initially backed by Russia. They went to US camp and hence accepted it. For the same reason Jordon accepted it. Pakistan hasn't and will never.
French and Germans were Christians (had jews as well but mostly) so they could forget about it. That was more about nations than religions. Over here, its about religions. No one can be flexible on that. Will Jews stop ruining the muslims? Never. Would Muslims stop retaliating? Never. That's it.
 
khansaheeb said:
NO WE DON'T. Israel is a despised country for its brutal genocide of Palestinians, its aggressive activities towards Pakistan via India and its apartheid treatment of Palestinians. Please speak for yourself.
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I've seen worse treatment by a state.
 
Saif-ud-Din Qutuz said:
Egypt did but Pakistan didn't.
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I corrected "Pakistan" to "Jordan". Israel and Pakistan have never been at war with each other.

Over here, its about religions. No one can be flexible on that. Will Jews stop ruining the muslims? Never. Would Muslims stop retaliating? Never. That's it.
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Here we run into a conceptual problem Pakistanis have when comparing Israel to themselves. Pakistan is an "ideological" state - founded for the subcontinent's Muslims. Israel is not: Israel was re-established as the national home of the Jewish people, for whom Judaism is their religion. One can become Israeli by descent or adoption, observance is not the issue.

Thus issues that may prevent Pakistanis from moving forward - here, the unrelenting religious enmity you're waving about - are one-sided and do not apply to Israelis, at least not to the same degree. Israelis are concerned with personal security and prosperity, not religious solidarity.

As the 2007 article shows, both Israeli and Pakistani diplomats understand that the problems preventing open relations are on the Pakistani side of the ledger and have (or had, if you prefer) nothing to do with Israel's conduct at all. It's Pakistan that has the demons, not Israel.
 
So we are no where on developing ties and recognising the Jewish state. This is just sad.
 
we should have diplomatic relations with Israel. Pakistan has nothing against Israel. it is ironic that vested elements at international level from international community always tried to pitch both against each other and creat fear among the people of Israel and Pakistan. it is time there should be three alliance between Palestin Israel and Pakistan for betterment of each other.
 
IceCold said:
So we are no where on developing ties and recognising the Jewish state. This is just sad.
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Worse than "sad." It is a big mistake: every moment spent twisting reality to meet the political demand to demonize Israel drives Pakistanis further away from sanity and thus effectively addressing its internal issues.

Jews have seen this condition before, especially in our enemies. When truth doesn't matter civic accountability of authorities disappears in favor of their self-interest, justice reduces to a matter of who holds the weapons, and therefore citizens divide into smaller groups, seeing other groups and the state as enemies. The outcome is a violent internal catharsis that tears society apart.

Pakistan has already seen this happen on a national scale twice. Sadly, its leaders persist in thinking the answer is more and more compulsion. But General Sahabzada Yaqub-Khan knew better: he resigned his commission rather than use force against his eastern brethren, saying that a political solution was required. He continued to serve Pakistan's government after the 1971 debacle but never returned to its army. Sadly, none of the Pakistani leaders of today, military or civilian, seem to be of the same caliber.
 
Spring Onion said:
we should have diplomatic relations with Israel. Pakistan has nothing against Israel. it is ironic that vested elements at international level from international community always tried to pitch both against each other and creat fear among the people of Israel and Pakistan. it is time there should be three alliance between Palestin Israel and Pakistan for betterment of each other.
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We created an enemy out of Israel for Arabs who now lit up their towers with Indian flag.
 
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Orakzai said:
We created an enemy out of Israel for Arabs who now lit up their towers with Indian flags.
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Israel was fed the wrong fear of Islamic bomb. it is time Israel should take some steps to free herself of this tailored fear.
 
Ah and the love for Israel sheds again but let me make it simple. More educated than most of the people here and more liberal minded then the most commenting here and just one thing to tell. Neither Kashmir is for sale to India nor Palestine is for sale to Israel. If you want Kashmir or Palestine it will be over my dead body don't know about the rest but this Zameer is not for sale :nono:
 
BHarwana said:
Ah and the love for Israel sheds again but let me make it simple. More educated than most of the people here and more liberal minded then the most commenting here and just one thing to tell. Neither Kashmir is for sale to India nor Palestine is for sale to Israel. If you want Kashmir or Palestine it will be over my dead body don't know about the rest but this Zameer is not for sale :nono:
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Look accepting Isreal is fine there is no issue. Only two states were built on foundation or basis of religion - Pakistan and Isreal.

No one cares of Palestine - while I disgree whole heartedly with the draconian nazi apartheid policies of Bibi and lunatic right fringe backed by evangelists (whose motivation is to speed up the coming of the messiah); regretfully PLO or Hamas has shown any capabilities of moving anywhere except for internal strife while the populus at large rot. Dont expect any US administration to say anything either when none of the Arab states have balls (... they were castrated in prior wars!).

With regards to Kashmir, proposal put by Mr Musharaf was credible but hawks on both sides did not want to see it done - it still remains a viable pre-position - there India has fallen to a baffoon/right wing leadership while Mr Sharif has no spine except to amass personal wealth like our dear leader here at home.

Please dont put always Kashmir/Palestine as a crying tears when there are millions of moslems facing genocide either in Burma, Darfur to name a few - when are their voices going to be heard?

Just reflecting my thoughts.
 
denel said:
Look accepting Isreal is fine there is no issue. Only two states were built on foundation or basis of religion - Pakistan and Isreal.

No one cares of Palestine - while I disgree whole heartedly with the draconian nazi apartheid policies of Bibi and lunatic right fringe backed by evangelists (whose motivation is to speed up the coming of the messiah); regretfully PLO or Hamas has shown any capabilities of moving anywhere except for internal strife while the populus at large rot. Dont expect any US administration to say anything either when none of the Arab states have balls (... they were castrated in prior wars!).

With regards to Kashmir, proposal put by Mr Musharaf was credible but hawks on both sides did not want to see it done - it still remains a viable pre-position - there India has fallen to a baffoon/right wing leadership while Mr Sharif has no spine except to amass personal wealth like our dear leader here at home.

Please dont put always Kashmir/Palestine as a crying tears when there are millions of moslems facing genocide either in Burma, Darfur to name a few - when are their voices going to be heard?

Just reflecting my thoughts.
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Sorry friend disagree with this at all. There is only one state born on the basis of religion that is Pakistan and one is yet to be born that is Palestine. The name Israel belongs to a terrorist organization and humanity need to get rid of terrorism. So no compromise and I speak for majority of Pakistanis. Arabs are for sale to the highest bidder. Look being a Muslim I believe in humanity and minorities rights more than any one but I know history very well so how jews came to the land of Palestine and who sent them here I know it, please don't try to teach me. Irani threat is for Arabs not for Pakistan and it interests so Iran is not Pakistan's enemy and Pakistan will not sell Palestine to suppress Iran. it is simple we will fight to the last men if the existence of Palestine is threatened. Arabs fear Iran do it them selves count us out we have our own agenda and our own country to think about and Kashmir and Palestine are not even negotiable.
 
Before having friendship remember"
Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 56, Number 791:

Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar:
I heard Allah's Apostle [Muhammad] saying, "The Jews will fight with you, and you will be given victory over them so that a stone will say, 'O Muslim! There is a Jew behind me; kill him!' "
 
BHarwana said:
Sorry friend disagree with this at all. There is only one state born on the basis of religion that is Pakistan and one is yet to be born that is Palestine. The name Israel belongs to a terrorist organization and humanity need to get rid of terrorism. So no compromise and I speak for majority of Pakistanis. Arabs are for sale to the highest bidder. Look being a Muslim I believe in humanity and minorities rights more than any one but I know history very well so how jews came to the land of Palestine and who sent them here I know it, please don't try to teach me. Irani threat is for Arabs not for Pakistan and it interests so Iran is not Pakistan's enemy and Pakistan will not sell Palestine to suppress Iran. it is simple we will fight to the last men if the existence of Palestine is threatened. Arabs fear Iran do it them selves count us out we have our own agenda and our own country to think about and Kashmir and Palestine are not even negotiable.
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Well I disagree and we will keep it there. Please dont state that Isreal is a terrorist; all states are born that way including mine here. All struggles from freedom start with that and people will label them as such. Good luck; arabs tried and they were nutured. Isreal is a fait accomplie. Please dont start who is and who is not a terrorist - we can show how much each state sponsors their proxies whether it is Pakistan, India, Iran etc.

As far as Iran/Arabs ... i cannot comment - it is their owner personal vendetta from hundreds of years back and none of us can say much.
 

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