Mirage, F-7PG and other combat aircrafts

[pakfighter]

how many F-7pgs and mirage rose we have?

regards

 

[Storm Force]

Super falcon

Wats this myth of PAF pilots having better training than Indians.

The IAF is far more modern air power and has better training fascilities, more money, and better expo9sure to overseas partners than pakistan.

PAF infact have not fired a shot in angar since then end of the Russian invasion of Afghnistan in 1989 .

More made up statements with no proof.

 

[Storm Force]

PAK FIGHTER current PAF fleet.

170 F7/F7PG
150 Mirage3/5
60 F16 ABCD
10+ Thunders

On other words 80% of PAF fleet is F7/MIRAGE3/5

 

[TOPGUN]

Super falcon

Wats this myth of PAF pilots having better training than Indians.

The IAF is far more modern air power and has better training fascilities, more money, and better expo9sure to overseas partners than pakistan.

PAF infact have not fired a shot in angar since then end of the Russian invasion of Afghnistan in 1989 .

More made up statements with no proof.

Perhaps you need to do some serious homework.. before stating hateful and dumb comments.. Pakistan Airforce is known to be one of the best in the world in traning and other fields you state PAF has not fired a single shot... what do you think they are doing in the wot wake up and don't hate PAF is one of the best on the world and only getting better now take that to the bank and go read up to gain some knowledge which you seem to really need

 

[mourning sage]

Pakistan is currently looking at 200+ Thunders as the back bone of its air force.

These cost around £12-15m each.

The hitech fighters start at $60m each going up to over $100m each for F35 Typhpoon & rafael

ITS ALL ABOUT MONEY BUDGETS.

PAF has a fraction of the budgets of air forces like China India Saudi and Korea and Taiwan.

There lies the problem.

The answer is Thunder x 200 and slowly upgrade

small nos of J10/FC20

F16 ON GRANT AID.

well the 15-20m cost of jf-17 is just for the initial stages. after the upgradations it will be above that for sure.

 

[mourning sage]

well F 7 is still good interceptor against Mig 21 bis our pilots have bettter trainening than IAF pilots so what ever flaws F 7 has which i dont think so even if it has slight miss advantage it wont metter because trainning of pilot will come in account too

Yes but again that could be limiting the abilities of our well trained pilots.
even though are pilots are much better than Indian pilots but we still require technology that can unleash hell on those indians!!!!!

 

[mourning sage]

i agree with Topgun.
n yeah Storm Force ur information is outdated about paf.
paf shot down an indian drone in 2002, becoming the first country to shoot down an UAV.
here is the link:

Indian drones operated by Israelis: PAF Chief - World - The Times of India

 

[Storm Force]

Topgun.

Stop banging your head.

To be the best in the world you need to prove it. Or in deed one the best in the world plz explain how & why

Never mind wat the Fan boys tell us on PAK defense forums,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, show me the reasons why PAF pilots are world class or even close.

I,ll give you 5 reasons why they are not. to start with

1. Very poorly equipped dated equipment compared top air forces both western and Arab and some east asian.
2. Virtually no real combat history for 2 decades
3. No show in Kargil dispite IAF flying over 500 SORTIES in support of their army.
4. Very small budget now and in the for seeable future
5. No written independant article showing PAF to be anything other than a well trained second class air force.

Second class based on Historical performance current equipment and near future equipment too.

WORLD CLASS is USA and bigger NATO ally,s standard like RAF LUFTWAFFE & TURKEY or very rich nations Like Japan French
or
Combat proven Israeli

Even the likes of PLAAF Saudi or Indians cant be classed as World class despite being far better equipped than PAF today and in the future

 

[hataf]

Topgun.

Stop banging your head.

To be the best in the world you need to prove it. Or in deed one the best in the world plz explain how & why

Never mind wat the Fan boys tell us on PAK defense forums,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, show me the reasons why PAF pilots are world class or even close.

I,ll give you 5 reasons why they are not. to start with

1. Very poorly equipped dated equipment compared top air forces both western and Arab and some east asian.
2. Virtually no real combat history for 2 decades
3. No show in Kargil dispite IAF flying over 500 SORTIES in support of their army.
4. Very small budget now and in the for seeable future
5. No written independant article showing PAF to be anything other than a well trained second class air force.

Second class based on Historical performance current equipment and near future equipment too.

WORLD CLASS is USA and bigger NATO ally,s standard like RAF LUFTWAFFE & TURKEY or very rich nations Like Japan French
or
Combat proven Israeli

Even the likes of PLAAF Saudi or Indians cant be classed as World class despite being far better equipped than PAF today and in the future

1967 Arab-Israeli 'Six-Day' War

RJAF and PAF were flying under a joint command. Flt. Lt. Saiful Azam became the only pilot from the Arab side to have shot down 3 IDF/AF aircraft within 72 hours and also the only pilot to have shot down 3 different aircraft types of the IDF/AF. He was, subsequently, decorated by Jordan, Iraq, Syria and Pakistan


1973 Arab-Israeli 'Yom Kippur' War


During the war 16 PAF pilots volunteered to go to the Middle East in order to support Egypt and Syria but by the time they arrived, Egypt had already been pushed into a ceasefire. Syria remained in a state of war against Israel.

On 23 October 1973, PAF pilot Flt. Lt. M. Hatif on deputation to Egyptian Air Force (EAF) was flying a EAF MiG-21 in a defensive combat air patrol (CAP) over Egypt when he was vectored towards an intruding Israeli Air Force (IDF/AF) F-4 Phantom. In the ensuing dogfight, Flt. Lt. M. Hatif shot down the Israeli Phantom.

Eight (8) PAF pilots started flying out of Syrian Airbases; they formed the A-flight of 67 Squadron at Dumayr Airbase. The Pakistani pilots flew Syrian MiG-21 aircraft conducting CAP missions for the Syrians.

On 26 April 1974, PAF pilot Flt. Lt. Sattar Alvi on deputation to No. 67 Squadron, Syrian Air Force (SAF) was flying a SAF MiG-21FL Fishbed (Serial No. 1863) out of Dumayr Air Base, Syria in a two-ship formation with a fellow PAF pilot and the Flight Leader, Sqn. Ldr. Arif Manzoor. The Ground Controller, also a PAF officer, Sqn. Ldr. Salim Metla, vectored the two PAF pilots to a formation of 2 Israeli Air Force Mirage IIICJs and 2 F-4 Phantoms that had intruded into Syrian airspace over the Golan Heights. In the engagement that took place at 1532 hours, Flt. Lt. Sattar Alvi shot down an Israeli Mirage IIICJ using his MiG-21's R(K)-13 Air-to-Air Missile. The pilot of the downed Israeli Mirage was Capt. M. Lutz of No. 5 Air Wing, who ejected. The remaining Israeli fighters aborted the mission. The 2 IAF Mirage IIICJs were from Hatzor AFB and the 2 IAF F-4 Phantoms were from No. 1 Air Wing, Ramat David AFB, Israel.

Flt. Lt. A. Sattar Alvi became the first Pakistani pilot, during the Yom Kippur War, to shoot down an Israeli Mirage in air combat.He was honored by the Syrian government. Other aerial encounters involved Israeli F-4 Phantoms; Pakistan Air Force did not lose a single pilot or aircraft during this war.
--------------------------------------------------------
you have stated that Israel air force is best, thats what PAF did with IAF, just a peak in history

your combat proven IAF....

if PAF can beat the @$$ of your best air force

i don't know what to say ............

and it is that time when IAF is at their best of combat experience ....



one more note

on ward to that, when ever Israelis have a hint that they are going against PAF, they just ran out from combat.

 

[Storm Force]

SO PAF pilots where flying in 1967 against the Israelis.

Thats great.

History tells us the Israelis won that war in 6 days knocking out 5 arab air forces in the process. Hundreds of Combat planes.

THATS not world class my friend.

Are you telling me that PAF pilots are in the same league as

USA RAF Germany ISRAELI and JAPAN. because this is wat i call world class. ????

 

[hataf]

SO PAF pilots where flying in 1967 against the Israelis.

Thats great.

History tells us the Israelis won that war in 6 days knocking out 5 arab air forces in the process. Hundreds of Combat planes.

THATS not world class my friend.

Are you telling me that PAF pilots are in the same league as

USA RAF Germany ISRAELI and JAPAN. because this is wat i call world class. ????

you r asking about the pilot skills of PAF

and i have given u an example of paf pilot skills that
when Arabs are going down like flies PAF shoot down the Israelis

so who is better skilled thats all i am saying

Israelis won no doubt, but tell me first, u r discussing the skills of pilots or winning of battle

i have highlited some part in red for u

 

[Storm Force]

Okay lets get back to the TOPIC

F7PG and Mirage 3/5 ARE THEY ANY GOOD wat use are they to PAF today compared to their natural enemy.

ie

124 SU30MKI
51 MIRAGE 2000
63 MIG29M
125 BISONS MIG21
100 JAGUAR
120 MIG27M

My answer F7PG & MIRAGE3/5 are very useful to take out 220 mig27/ jaguars since these planes are only bombers strike planes.

the PAF mirage3/5 & F7PG will 50/50 at best against the BVR equipped bisons.

Finally F7PG ?MIRAGE 3/5 will lose to 234 su30mki/mirage2000/mig29 combo

IF YOU DISAGREE PLZ TELL ME WHY

F7PG & MIRAGE3/5 nos are 320+ in PAF or 80% of the entire fleet today

 

[mourning sage]

Topgun.

Stop banging your head.

To be the best in the world you need to prove it. Or in deed one the best in the world plz explain how & why

Never mind wat the Fan boys tell us on PAK defense forums,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, show me the reasons why PAF pilots are world class or even close.

I,ll give you 5 reasons why they are not. to start with

1. Very poorly equipped dated equipment compared top air forces both western and Arab and some east asian.
2. Virtually no real combat history for 2 decades
3. No show in Kargil dispite IAF flying over 500 SORTIES in support of their army.
4. Very small budget now and in the for seeable future
5. No written independant article showing PAF to be anything other than a well trained second class air force.

Second class based on Historical performance current equipment and near future equipment too.

WORLD CLASS is USA and bigger NATO ally,s standard like RAF LUFTWAFFE & TURKEY or very rich nations Like Japan French
or
Combat proven Israeli

Even the likes of PLAAF Saudi or Indians cant be classed as World class despite being far better equipped than PAF today and in the future

all these problems are associated only with the paf, not the pilots of the air force:
outdated equipment, smaller budget. If i understood anything incorrectly, please explain me

 

[mourning sage]

Okay lets get back to the TOPIC

F7PG and Mirage 3/5 ARE THEY ANY GOOD wat use are they to PAF today compared to their natural enemy.

ie

124 SU30MKI
51 MIRAGE 2000
63 MIG29M
125 BISONS MIG21
100 JAGUAR
120 MIG27M

My answer F7PG & MIRAGE3/5 are very useful to take out 220 mig27/ jaguars since these planes are only bombers strike planes.

the PAF mirage3/5 & F7PG will 50/50 at best against the BVR equipped bisons.

Finally F7PG ?MIRAGE 3/5 will lose to 234 su30mki/mirage2000/mig29 combo

IF YOU DISAGREE PLZ TELL ME WHY

F7PG & MIRAGE3/5 nos are 320+ in PAF or 80% of the entire fleet today

Well i dont think that we will just use f7pg n mirages in the whole battle and our f-16s and jf-17s will be show pieces!!!!

 

[razgriz19]

I wanted to ask a question to our senior members that why didn't our air force take the licence production of Mirage-2000s(of about 200-250 aircraft) from france like in 1980s and try to start negotiating in early 1980s and start production like in 1986 and continue till 2000. Then our air force would be much better than now.

simple answer...PAF wanted to induct mirage but the price was high...well it wasn't too high but it wasn't under our budget!