JF17 Block III: AESA Vs IRST - which system should take priority?

[Bilal Khan 777]

Gents (and ladies, if any),

I would like to start an operational / technical debate/discussion on JF17 Block III Configuration. It has been known in public media that PAF intends to integrate an AESA radar in Block III configuration, in replacement of KLJ7. Further, it is quite popular belief that IRST is also on the cards. With this in mind, I would like to discuss if Block III, the multi-role mainstay of PAF and upmarket configuration of JF17 for ME and GCC customers, which system should take priority? AESA or IRST? What are the options? What is likely going to come on JF17? Should the PAF consider both systems to be installed on JF17, making it a truly 4th Gen fighter with no second in performance vs. value?

Kindly do not divert the discussion to LCAs, SU30 MKI, and other platforms in the neighbourhood of PK.

Thanks.

 

[Zarvan]

Gents (and ladies, if any),

I would like to start an operational / technical debate/discussion on JF17 Block III Configuration. It has been known in public media that PAF intends to integrate an AESA radar in Block III configuration, in replacement of KLJ7. Further, it is quite popular belief that IRST is also on the cards. With this in mind, I would like to discuss if Block III, the multi-role mainstay of PAF and upmarket configuration of JF17 for ME and GCC customers, which system should take priority? AESA or IRST? What are the options? What is likely going to come on JF17? Should the PAF consider both systems to be installed on JF17, making it a truly 4th Gen fighter with no second in performance vs. value?

Kindly do not divert the discussion to LCAs, SU30 MKI, and other platforms in the neighbourhood of PK.

Thanks.

As a layman which I am on this topic. Can you explain it to me what is the difference ?

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

I don't think it would be a "versus" AESA and IRST ... It's pretty much confirmed that we're going with the AESA as of now ... Relating to the IRST ... the likes of serious senior posters like @Oscar have stated that you could integrate it, but JFT being a single seat fighter, it would increase the pilot work load etc. and therefore, the inclination is to go for the AESA ...

However, another positive development has surfaced lately, it was released before that the JF-17B would be simply a training platform, that it would be inferior compared to the A version, however latest "rumor mills" suggest that A and B versions would be on par --- and that raises the question that

"would a JF-17B come in a blk-III configuration ... and with the two seater version, would it be feasible to have an IRST integrated ??"

IRSTs are highly automated, like AESAs. They will no loss increase the work load of the pilot as the AESA. I think there is merit of both in JF17 Block III.

 

[Akasa]

Can somebody confirm that its first flight will be in 2016? I've heard rumors but no substantiated evidence.

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

Can somebody confirm that its first flight will be in 2016? I've heard rumors but no substantiated evidence.

Block III will start in 2016, first flight will not be till 2018-2019.

 

[Akasa]

Block III will start in 2016, first flight will not be till 2018-2019.

This makes a lot more sense. Thanks.

 

[Paksanity]

Gents (and ladies, if any),

I would like to start an operational / technical debate/discussion on JF17 Block III Configuration. It has been known in public media that PAF intends to integrate an AESA radar in Block III configuration, in replacement of KLJ7. Further, it is quite popular belief that IRST is also on the cards. With this in mind, I would like to discuss if Block III, the multi-role mainstay of PAF and upmarket configuration of JF17 for ME and GCC customers, which system should take priority? AESA or IRST? What are the options? What is likely going to come on JF17? Should the PAF consider both systems to be installed on JF17, making it a truly 4th Gen fighter with no second in performance vs. value?

Kindly do not divert the discussion to LCAs, SU30 MKI, and other platforms in the neighbourhood of PK.

Thanks.

Block 3 will be available for export around 2020 or so. Looking at that time, it has to have both to make it future proof. A customer might choose not to have either or both but it must be integrated in systems from design phase. I can't see it gaining traction in export market without either.

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

Block 3 will be available for export around 2020 or so. Looking at that time, it has to have both to make it future proof. A customer might choose not to have either or both but it must be integrated in systems from design phase. I can't see it gaining traction in export market without either.

Many fighter aircraft analysts agree. For JF17 Block III to have any potency and real traction in the export market, it should have the following additions:

1) Built in Self Protection Jammer, instead of Podded ASPJ
2) Missile Approach Warning System
3)Improved Pilot Situational Awareness, with:
i) Helmet Mounted Display System
ii) Large Area Display
iii) Solid state HUD
4) AESA
5) Targeting Pod
6) IRST
7) IFR Probe
8) Tactical Data Link

On the weapon side, PAF should consider integration of lighter weapons, such as Hellfire or similar ATGM or laser guided. 2.75" rockets. Most of the African customers would require rocket pods and guided rockets, and not heavy missiles.

However, coming back to the topic, I believe that JF17, as it integrates BVR weapons, must have IRST to be relevant to future combat against low observable aircraft.

I personally think that AESA is overkill of JF17, and it is more to compete with Indian Rafale than a properly thought out CONOPS or ROI. However, there is no way around long range passive targeting capability for JF17.

 

[Ghazwa e Hind]

For a medium ranged light weight air superiority aircraft, both AESA & IRST should be installed in Block-III with additional weight carrying capacity and range. JF-17 Block III should not prove itself anything less than an Air-Superiority fighter and i am sure that PAF will work on this system even beyond Block-III because afterall, its the 'destiny' of PAF. They will surely turn it into an advanced 4.5th generation aircraft which can challenge any kind of adversary in air.

 

[Indus Falcon]

@MastanKhan Bro, You need to see this thread.

 

[Quwa]

Gents (and ladies, if any),

I would like to start an operational / technical debate/discussion on JF17 Block III Configuration. It has been known in public media that PAF intends to integrate an AESA radar in Block III configuration, in replacement of KLJ7. Further, it is quite popular belief that IRST is also on the cards. With this in mind, I would like to discuss if Block III, the multi-role mainstay of PAF and upmarket configuration of JF17 for ME and GCC customers, which system should take priority? AESA or IRST? What are the options? What is likely going to come on JF17? Should the PAF consider both systems to be installed on JF17, making it a truly 4th Gen fighter with no second in performance vs. value?

Kindly do not divert the discussion to LCAs, SU30 MKI, and other platforms in the neighbourhood of PK.

Thanks.

The impression I got was that IRST would be included in the form of a pod, not an integrated aspect of the aircraft (similar to the U.S Legion). In such a scenario I expect it would be more of an option for export.

 

[Imran Khan]

call it block 1 3 or 342 all look to me same

 

[MastanKhan]

What glue were you sniffing when you made this thread?
irst and an aesa radar are for separate things. an aesa radar is for long range detection whilst as an irst is used for detecting close range thermal objects.

Hi,

I think he sniffed the 'good one'----. I would like some.

Many fighter aircraft analysts agree. For JF17 Block III to have any potency and real traction in the export market, it should have the following additions:

1) Built in Self Protection Jammer, instead of Podded ASPJ
2) Missile Approach Warning System
3)Improved Pilot Situational Awareness, with:
i) Helmet Mounted Display System
ii) Large Area Display
iii) Solid state HUD
4) AESA
5) Targeting Pod
6) IRST
7) IFR Probe
8) Tactical Data Link

On the weapon side, PAF should consider integration of lighter weapons, such as Hellfire or similar ATGM or laser guided. 2.75" rockets. Most of the African customers would require rocket pods and guided rockets, and not heavy missiles.

However, coming back to the topic, I believe that JF17, as it integrates BVR weapons, must have IRST to be relevant to future combat against low observable aircraft.

I personally think that AESA is overkill of JF17, and it is more to compete with Indian Rafale than a properly thought out CONOPS or ROI. However, there is no way around long range passive targeting capability for JF17.

Hi,

Thank you for your post.

There are no ifs and buts about IRST and AESA on this aircraft. IRST should be a permanent fixture and not a pod.

AESA they are already committed to----

Apart for the items that you have mentioned----I would suggest for the air force to look into the FUel TANK design and may consider modifying the drop tanks similar to the one's on the Gripen NG--it could possibly give them an extra 75 to a 100 gals more carrying capacity.

 

[Saifullah]

Many fighter aircraft analysts agree. For JF17 Block III to have any potency and real traction in the export market, it should have the following additions:

1) Built in Self Protection Jammer, instead of Podded ASPJ
2) Missile Approach Warning System
3)Improved Pilot Situational Awareness, with:
i) Helmet Mounted Display System
ii) Large Area Display
iii) Solid state HUD
4) AESA
5) Targeting Pod
6) IRST
7) IFR Probe
8) Tactical Data Link

On the weapon side, PAF should consider integration of lighter weapons, such as Hellfire or similar ATGM or laser guided. 2.75" rockets. Most of the African customers would require rocket pods and guided rockets, and not heavy missiles.

However, coming back to the topic, I believe that JF17, as it integrates BVR weapons, must have IRST to be relevant to future combat against low observable aircraft.

I personally think that AESA is overkill of JF17, and it is more to compete with Indian Rafale than a properly thought out CONOPS or ROI. However, there is no way around long range passive targeting capability for JF17.

JF-17 Block II already have 2, 3.2, 3.3, 3.5, 3.7 3.8 .

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

Hi,

I think he sniffed the 'good one'----. I would like some.




Hi,

Thank you for your post.

There are no ifs and buts about IRST and AESA on this aircraft. IRST should be a permanent fixture and not a pod.

AESA they are already committed to----

Apart for the items that you have mentioned----I would suggest for the air force to look into the FUel TANK design and may consider modifying the drop tanks similar to the one's on the Gripen NG--it could possibly give them an extra 75 to a 100 gals more carrying capacity.

I don't sniff glues or anything else. IRST will not be opted for for short range, its only advantage is long range passive detection of fighter approaching in front aspect.

I agree that Fuel tanks should be reconsidered to be Super Sonic type.

JF-17 Block II already have 2, 3.2, 3.3, 3.5, 3.6, 3.7 .

Really? That is news. I mentioned those because they are NOT on JF17. Kindly show me references of the following on JF17 in service or in production models:
a) MAWS (there is a CFD and RWR Do you know what a MAWS is?)
b)LAD (there are three MFDs)
c) SS HUD (current system is a Tube based system)
Targeting Pod (which one is in service? )
IRST (Where is the IRST? Why do you think I will start this discussion?)
IFR (Where is the IFR in production? The Aerosud probe has not been put in production).

Really, if you don't have insight into JF17, kindly do not make any claims.

Keeping back to AESA vs. IRST discussion, the reason for either or is space limitation, and AESA availability. They are in conflict. The aircraft seems to be backed with avionics, and fitting a new system will present its challenges.
I am sure its nothing PAF cannot overcome.