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Ordinary Pakistanis seem to love Indians. Do we love them back?

What did India give us for us to be loyal to India. You speak like you are the victims. It is unfortunately impossible for the Hindutvas to understand the simple fact that no-you are not the victims, the victims are those muslims christians and sikhs who have it tough at each and every step. Even the Sachar committee report even though much biased shows the true face of India. India has never nor will it ever treat its minorities fairly. I still partly consider myself a Lucknowi muslim as my parents are and yes, we have no loyalty to India? Why? Because the stated nation gave us nothing.

Muslims have a separate history, a separate way of life and a separate way of thinking. India gave no respect to any of this. In civil service we muslims are only 3%. In jails we also have a higher percentage. I don't see what India has ever done to eliminate the image that it does not give a damn about its muslims.

Look at this:

Data collected by Prime Minister?s High Level Committee, headed by Justice (retd) Rajinder Sachar on their social, economic and education: In rural areas: 94.9% of Muslims living below poverty line fail to receive free food grain. Only 3.2% of Muslims get subsidized loans, Only 2.1% of Muslim farmers have tractors, while just 1% own hand pumps. 54.6% of Muslims in villages and 60% in urban areas have never been to schools. In rural areas, only 0.8% of Muslims are graduates, while in urban areas despite 40% of the Muslims receiving modern education only 3.1% are graduates. Only 1.2% of Muslims are post-graduates in urban areas. While West Bengal has 25% Muslim population, only 4.2% are employed in state services. In Assam , with a 40% Muslim population, only 11.2% are in government employment. Kerala has 20% Muslims, but only 10.4% of government employees are Muslim. A better picture is projected by data collected in Karnataka, where against Muslim population of 12.2%, 8.5% are employed in government services. While in Gujarat, of the 9.1% Muslim population, 5.4% are in state jobs , in Tamil Nadu, against a 5.6% Muslim population, 3.2% are employed in government. Though West Bengal is known as a political bastion of the left bloc, the ones who have always spoken strongly against parties entertaining communal bias, the state has zero% Muslims in state PSUs. While Kerala has 9.5% in state PSUs, Maharashtra has only 1.9%. Though the Sachar committee was not able to secure data regarding the presence of Muslims in the armed forces, it is fairly well-known that their percentage here is not more than three. Muslims form only 10.6% of the population in Maharashtra , but 32.4% of the prison inmates here are Muslims. In New Delhi , 27.9 % of inmates are Muslims, though they form only 11.7% of the population here. While in Gujarat , Muslims form 25.1% of the ones imprisoned, they form 9.1% of the population. In Karnataka, Muslims form 12.23% of populace and 17.5% of those imprisoned. Interestingly, the majority of the Muslim inmates have not been imprisoned for ?terrorism.? This raises the question whether most of them are behind bars only for petty crimes or because of the bias displayed against them by Indian police forces. Of the total inmates serving sentences up to one year, in Maharashtra , Muslims constitute 40.6% of their population. The high percentage of Muslims presence in jails is also said to be an indicator of their being victims of discrimination and suspicion, particularly as their prevails a tendency in India to blame largely Muslim groups for terror attacks taking place here. The report also holds poverty among Muslims as being responsible for turning them towards crime. Poverty and prejudice entertained against them is said to have further contributed to their presence in jails. Against the backdrop of dismal facts having surfaced regarding social, economic and educational status of Indian Muslims, the Sachar panel has made some recommendations in their favor. Stating that the future of Muslims does not rest in madrasa education, the Sachar panel recommends more English and Urdu medium government schools in Muslim-dominated areas. The Sachar panel also recommends allocation of 15% of all government funds to Muslims under all central schemes. It favors greater representation for Muslims in sectors such as health and teaching and also sensitization of government employments towards Muslims? requirements. The Sachar panel has made a strong argument for all Indian Muslims, except the creamy layer. With the Sachar report having already served as an eye-opener to the harsh reality about the status of Muslims in Indian society, the question is whether in fact this will propel the government to take some constructive steps towards improving their conditions or would its relevance be confined to noise made in media circles and a little bit of political rhetoric.
You said your parents are born in India then you will get citizenship of india. Come back to India brother Indian muslims needs you. I think You are their messiah. Please come back to India and save Indian muslims from Hindu oppression.
 
Don't take Pakistani hospitality for 'love'. Even if Satan turns up at our door we feed him.
Thank you for that straight answer, These type of articles that all these lefties write after a visit to Pakistan are really silly. I wish the loony left liberal brigade in India would actually understand that. Pakistanis are hospitable and would feed "Satan" AKA Indians if they came to your house. So people like loony lefty Mani Shankar Liar and Ms. Annoying. Roy " the one book wonder" should understand this. This is just hospitality, part of your culture, no offense but you you continue to hate our guts and would slit our throats if you got the chance.

Mr. " I support the Aimless Anarchist Party " should think about this some more....
 
A Lucknowi Pakistani.

There is nothing called as a Lucknowi Pakistani. Once you left Lucknow to go to Pakistan you have become a full Pakistani. You may have some ancient roots in Lucknow but as on 15 August 1947 it is in a different country so dont try to play this card of Lucknowi Pakistani to gather some sympathy.

I have never heard anyone say he is a Lahori Indian. There are thousands of people who would have migrated from Lahore to India. But no one will ever say they are Lahori Indians.
 
Are you saying the Pakistani state was viewed favorably before 26/11?

Far more favourably than after 26/11. Musharraf's government had done quite a lot of work with the GoI on many issues and there was an expectation that the new civilian government would continue further down that path though by that time some withdrawing from previously held positions was seen from both the GoP & the Pakistan army.

I don't think many people in Pakistan understand the change in the psyche of Indians after 26/11. That attack completely changed how Indians view Pakistan, removing any trace of a soft corner that many had felt before . The former NSA Shivshankar Menion has alluded to this when he said that there is little interest & no constituency now left in India that actively wants to better relations with Pakistan.
 
Without Indian members PDF would loose close to 49% traffic ( a conservative estimate).
But considering the fact that most of discussion here is between either Indian & Pak members or Indian & Chinese members , the PDF would loose close to 75% traffic and that's bad news for Webby.

View attachment 208134
according to webmaster yr nothing but a waste of bandwidth.
 
On a superficial level, even i do not hate any terrorist too...Because they have some reason to do their job...In the same way,...Indian people in general does not have any issue with Pakistanin public...but yes, we do not like more rigid Islamist minded people from Pakistan...That is why in Bollywood, we allowed Pakisttan casts to come and be part of he system..

Even in India, we have a good fan base for Pakistan cricketer ..be in Imran Khan or Soib Akhtar or Seed Ajmal( I am a fan of all these 3 people)....So there is no issue with people to people level....



Aap India se hai? You are Indian? That makes you our guest. We can’t take any money from you!”

It was my fourth and last day in Islamabad, and this reaction from a handicrafts shop salesman didn’t surprise me any more. I’d been getting it from the first day, this outpouring of warmth and generosity from Pakistanis the moment I mentioned India, and it never failed to charm me.

When I flew from Mumbai to Islamabad earlier this month, I was excited about finally getting a glimpse of India’s estranged midnight twin, about meeting the people who are ‘just like us’ but still the perpetual ‘other’. I was preparing for four days of spotting similarities and differences, but the only striking difference I was able to discern was one that left me with a twinge of shame: all the Pakistanis I encountered love Indians, but most Indians don't return the love.

You must have some tea

I was in Islamabad for an international women’s empowerment conference organised by the American Embassy in Pakistan, and my precious single-city visa was valid for just seven days. The conference was an impressive gathering of nearly 300 women and men from all over Pakistan, who made sure that the few of us representing other South Asian neighbours – India, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Afghanistan and the Maldives – were treated like mini celebrities. (Lots of selfies were involved, of course.)

But the two of us from India – one Mumbaiite and one Kashmiri – began getting special attention much before we met any of the like-minded, well-travelled people at the conference.

First, it came from the otherwise sombre immigration officials at Islamabad’s Benazir Bhutto airport where we landed: a lady officer, while scanning our documents, grinned mischievously at us and said, “Indiawaale tohsuspicioushote hai” – Indians are objects of suspicion, right? We grinned back and proceeded for the airport police verification for foreigners, where the official took a break from an argument with another man to say, “You are from India? You must have some tea!”

One Potato, Two Potato

Outside our hotel, we had time to grab a quick lunch before the conference began, and the only restaurant open on a Friday afternoon in Jinnah Market was OPTP – One Potato Two Potato – serving American fast food. We had been dreaming of kebabs and biryani, but for now, burgers and fries it had to be.

I still hadn’t had time for foreign exchange, so Ashwaq – my fellow Indian traveller – offered to pay for lunch with the Pakistani rupees that she had acquired from an agent in Delhi. But the cashier wouldn’t take them. “These are outdated notes, madam,” he said, shrugging his shoulders. "They are no longer valid." We pleaded, and after a minute of thumb-twiddling, he double-checked with a friend and came back with the same response: the notes couldn’t be accepted any more.

Tired and hungry, we cursed the dubious Delhi agent – and then it began. “Delhi? Are you from India?” the cashier said. “Well, it’s okay. I’ll take the old notes. You are our guests.” He insisted, and the burgers and fries, and the free cheese dips he threw in didn’t taste so American any more.

My first ever cup of tea

This experience repeated itself almost everywhere throughout our four days in Islamabad. Pakistanidildaaritowards Indians seemed to be widespread, and manifested itself in discounts, mementoes and many eager conversations about common cultures, Bollywood and of course, cricket.

On my third night, while gorging on meaty street food at Melody Food Park, thisdildaarimoved me to do something I never imagined I would: I drank a whole cup of tea, a beverage I dislike almost as much as coffee. (I’m weird, I know.) For journalists, sharingchaiwith sources is often the smoothest way to break the ice and win trust, but I always wriggle out of the ritual by claiming I’m allergic to tea.

But this tea – a steaming cup of Peshawarikahwa– was a treat from a humble vendor ofchappal kebabs, who couldn’t contain his excitement when he found out I was Indian. “I’ve always wanted to go to India! You have to let us show you our hospitality!” he said, and served us a complementary kebab along withkahwa.

I’m still no fan of any kind of tea, but that cup definitely left me warm inside.

And Indians?

So what answer did I have to the one question that so many hospitable Pakistanis in Isloo, as they call Islamabad, asked of me so eagerly, both in and outside the conference?

The question would typically come after heartfelt conversations about India, Pakistan, Kashmir and the politics that separates us: “We really love Indians – after all, we’re basically the same people. Do Indians feel the same way about us?”

Often, my response was a bright “We do!”, but was that really true? Was I speaking for most Indians or just a minority of sickular liberals like me? Every time I faced that question, my guilt-ridden mind would think of the many "go back to Pakistan" exhortations Indian Muslims have often faced, and the casual "are you meeting terrorists?" jokes that so many of my own friends had cracked when I got my visa for Pakistan.

The next time I cross the border ‒ Karachi and Lahore are on my bucket list ‒ I hope to have a more honest response to that question. I want that response to be, “Of course we love you too!”


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@jamahir @levina @WAJsal @The_Showstopper @takeiteasy @rockstar08 @haviZsultan @friendly_troll96 @Armstrong@

according to webmaster yr nothing but a waste of bandwidth.

Then ask your webmaster, why you are wasting your precious bandwidth?...
 
LOL.

...most Indians see Pakistan as a perennial rape victim....you guys have certainly been poked around a lot in the last 50 years by a lot of different people. ;)

Maybe that is why they keep saying 1 pakistani can take 10 Indian men. :D ................. they have learned to swallow .............. their pride :P
 
we conquer it i think u knw nothing abt history

goo n take some history classes it was muslim who conquer hindustan by power n thn it was indian got india by licking queens.....

lol, u people never conquered us, it was those people who forcefully converted u r ancestors conquered us... and they never respected you to be there equals and called u malecha muslims.. !!!
 
Aap India se hai? You are Indian? That makes you our guest. We can’t take any money from you!”

It was my fourth and last day in Islamabad, and this reaction from a handicrafts shop salesman didn’t surprise me any more. I’d been getting it from the first day, this outpouring of warmth and generosity from Pakistanis the moment I mentioned India, and it never failed to charm me.

When I flew from Mumbai to Islamabad earlier this month, I was excited about finally getting a glimpse of India’s estranged midnight twin, about meeting the people who are ‘just like us’ but still the perpetual ‘other’. I was preparing for four days of spotting similarities and differences, but the only striking difference I was able to discern was one that left me with a twinge of shame: all the Pakistanis I encountered love Indians, but most Indians don't return the love.

You must have some tea

I was in Islamabad for an international women’s empowerment conference organised by the American Embassy in Pakistan, and my precious single-city visa was valid for just seven days. The conference was an impressive gathering of nearly 300 women and men from all over Pakistan, who made sure that the few of us representing other South Asian neighbours – India, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Afghanistan and the Maldives – were treated like mini celebrities. (Lots of selfies were involved, of course.)

But the two of us from India – one Mumbaiite and one Kashmiri – began getting special attention much before we met any of the like-minded, well-travelled people at the conference.

First, it came from the otherwise sombre immigration officials at Islamabad’s Benazir Bhutto airport where we landed: a lady officer, while scanning our documents, grinned mischievously at us and said, “Indiawaale tohsuspicioushote hai” – Indians are objects of suspicion, right? We grinned back and proceeded for the airport police verification for foreigners, where the official took a break from an argument with another man to say, “You are from India? You must have some tea!”

One Potato, Two Potato

Outside our hotel, we had time to grab a quick lunch before the conference began, and the only restaurant open on a Friday afternoon in Jinnah Market was OPTP – One Potato Two Potato – serving American fast food. We had been dreaming of kebabs and biryani, but for now, burgers and fries it had to be.

I still hadn’t had time for foreign exchange, so Ashwaq – my fellow Indian traveller – offered to pay for lunch with the Pakistani rupees that she had acquired from an agent in Delhi. But the cashier wouldn’t take them. “These are outdated notes, madam,” he said, shrugging his shoulders. "They are no longer valid." We pleaded, and after a minute of thumb-twiddling, he double-checked with a friend and came back with the same response: the notes couldn’t be accepted any more.

Tired and hungry, we cursed the dubious Delhi agent – and then it began. “Delhi? Are you from India?” the cashier said. “Well, it’s okay. I’ll take the old notes. You are our guests.” He insisted, and the burgers and fries, and the free cheese dips he threw in didn’t taste so American any more.

My first ever cup of tea

This experience repeated itself almost everywhere throughout our four days in Islamabad. Pakistanidildaaritowards Indians seemed to be widespread, and manifested itself in discounts, mementoes and many eager conversations about common cultures, Bollywood and of course, cricket.

On my third night, while gorging on meaty street food at Melody Food Park, thisdildaarimoved me to do something I never imagined I would: I drank a whole cup of tea, a beverage I dislike almost as much as coffee. (I’m weird, I know.) For journalists, sharingchaiwith sources is often the smoothest way to break the ice and win trust, but I always wriggle out of the ritual by claiming I’m allergic to tea.

But this tea – a steaming cup of Peshawarikahwa– was a treat from a humble vendor ofchappal kebabs, who couldn’t contain his excitement when he found out I was Indian. “I’ve always wanted to go to India! You have to let us show you our hospitality!” he said, and served us a complementary kebab along withkahwa.

I’m still no fan of any kind of tea, but that cup definitely left me warm inside.

And Indians?

So what answer did I have to the one question that so many hospitable Pakistanis in Isloo, as they call Islamabad, asked of me so eagerly, both in and outside the conference?

The question would typically come after heartfelt conversations about India, Pakistan, Kashmir and the politics that separates us: “We really love Indians – after all, we’re basically the same people. Do Indians feel the same way about us?”

Often, my response was a bright “We do!”, but was that really true? Was I speaking for most Indians or just a minority of sickular liberals like me? Every time I faced that question, my guilt-ridden mind would think of the many "go back to Pakistan" exhortations Indian Muslims have often faced, and the casual "are you meeting terrorists?" jokes that so many of my own friends had cracked when I got my visa for Pakistan.

The next time I cross the border ‒ Karachi and Lahore are on my bucket list ‒ I hope to have a more honest response to that question. I want that response to be, “Of course we love you too!”


Scroll.in - News. Politics. Culture.

@jamahir @levina @WAJsal @The_Showstopper @takeiteasy @rockstar08 @haviZsultan @friendly_troll96 @Armstrong@

In my experience outside the subcontinent, Pakistanis and Indians get along fine with each other, and generally like each other.

But Pakistanis seem to be more fond of Indians than vice versa. Probably as India is bigger and has more recognition abroad, plus Indians are more financially well off in comparison, so they seem to have a slight chip on their shoulders, especially in the U.S.
 
i am descendant of the one who ruled ur sry asses for over 700 years.... n if u people r still angry for that thn do use butt hurt cream.... cant do anything

700 years :o::o: ??? is that what your madarssahs teach you ?? it was the present day pakistan that was under muslim rule for 700-800 years.. the present day india always had regions that are under hindu rule.. areas like mallabar and assam were never occupied by muslims, afghans who went on a rampage althrough present day pak till north India couldn't do zilch when it came to war with vijayanagara's of the south.. At a max we were under muslim rule for a max of 300-400 years. At the end of this 300 years there was a rise of hindu and sikh kingdoms in India.. what did pakistanis have other than boasting abt there occupiers ???

who cares at least they were not hindu...

sadly your ancestors were... :(:(
 
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Yes, but you put the onus on the governments which isn't fair. Yes, the propaganda machines in both countries want you to think a certain way but if you do a little bit of research you can understand that no one's innocent here and can claim the moral high ground.

Once you establish that we both messed up, it becomes easier to be hopeful about the future rather than bitter about the past. And reunification is still possible, not by amalgamation of the two countries but by forming an alliance along the lines of EU.
To me a random Pakistani on the street is a stranger, I dont hate him and nor do I love him. The Indian populace and Pakistani do not hate each other inherently, is what I believe.
Its been 68yrs since our independence, the generation which had to face partition is gone. And the raison d'eter we still have bitterness between the 2 countries is courtesy our governments (and armed forces). They 've manipulated our thought process and made us believe that the country on the other side of border is our enemy. Agree?
 
To me a random Pakistani on the street is a stranger, I dont hate him and nor do I love him. The Indian populace and Pakistani do not hate each other inherently, is what I believe.
Its been 68yrs since our independence, the generation which had to face partition is gone. And the raison d'eter we still have bitterness between the 2 countries is courtesy our governments (and armed forces). They 've manipulated our thought process and made us believe that the country on the other side of border is our enemy. Agree?

I would think there's more anti India sentiment in Pakistan than there is anti Pakistan sentiment in India..

Case in point, people in Pakistan were distributing sweets on the occasion of Mumbai attacks..

The million dollar question is whether this difference is due to media, government, armed forces or maturity of Indian populace.
 

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