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proposal for a new division of south asia

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Well, I ain't no video game college boy. Trust me, you are going down a dangerous path.



@Ravi Nair put him up to this therefore unsurprising....I suspect a mallu commie among us.



Ehhh....socialists had all but ruined our country till now. We've worked hard to boot them out. At a drop they'll be back.

Oh please. I have seen what socialists have done to Kerala. And have done to other nations. Please don't throw me in with their lot.

I speculated pre-independence division of India. But, any division of India now is not at all feasible. As an example, Tamil Nadu, Karnataka, Kerala have water disputes among them. It is the Indian Union and the Supreme court apparatus they look to solve the solutions.

I oppose any splits now, as it will be bloody and messy.
 
India is a diverse country. We need to respect its diversity.

that is not diversity... that is unnecessary complication... many indians also speak of "oh, we have a large poplulation"... but nobody from outside forced india to have 850 million males... same is the case with "diversity"... to twist a computer industry saying... "it is a bug, not a feature"... :-)

And what of Militants who want to establish a Worldwide Islamic state?
I have concerns with my country's borders opened to Pakistani tribal areas and radicalized militants,

a pakistani might talk about "akhand bharat" and rss goons, yes??

and to BD, where their workforce will enter our country at large and natives will be at a disadvange.

the americans ( particularly the computer industry there ) say the same things about indians...

1. http://indiots.zymichost.com
2. Life of an I.T. Grunt | Notes From The Trenches of Software Development

and the geography of India in the said Union ,will again take 30 years to reach where it was at 2013 again.

in 2013, indian industry and government was finally aware that the indian it-bt-bpo bubble had finally burst... therefore, in 2014, india has gone back to being the aid economy... that "loan" from communist china and supposed "loan" from japan and that un-mentioned "loan" from usa...

please... we all must remove the disease of nationalism and call ourselves human...
 
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all your points are correct but i am not sure what you are trying to imply with that last quote. are you encouraging indian nationalism or regional nationalism? to me indian nationalism is fake and does not exist, tell me if you think i am wrong. as you said in #7, people feel closer to those culturally and linguistically. i live in america and have been to canada and read all over the internet, indian punjabis feel closer to pakistani punjabi muslims than other indians and will call themselves punjabi when they are international. religion matters less and they are more similar than say a kerala hindu... acting as if pakistan and india are so different, when east pakistan and north india are basically the same thing. and many people will find it hard to say "proud to be indian", because--each person is from on state, and there are 28 states in india, so how can you be proud of all of them when you are only from one of them? you are really just 1/28 of india

explain to me if you think i am wrong, i am interested in a reason why some indians are so patriotic (assuming it is not blind patriotism or hinduvata)
Thanks for pointing out. I am trying to imply that India and Pakistan are multicultural, multilingual societies and we feel close to the people who speaks about or follow them. Say Pashtuns of Pakistan to Afghan Pashtuns or Punjabis across the border. I don't say Nationalism is fake as this is how it was working in past for being loyal to king and kingdom and currently for government, army and nation but bounding it based on religion is mistake of bygone era of King and Pope. People here fight about their religion or National Identity which always precedes in foreign land when it is about culture.

As far as you talk about Indian Nationalism that is bound by only one thing and that is Indian Constitution and there is nothing patriotic about. Goa, Sikkim, Pondicherry etc were not part of India but merged so Nationalism changed, Cultural-ism changed but what is not changed was belief in Indian Constitution even though people might not know what it is. This becomes our first Identity when we cross our border and that makes me close to people from different part of India. This is shear sociological connectivity among 2 people by at least being something common.

Also, Economic boom in India has changed a lot of things in past 20 years. The cultures are becoming more cosmopolitan. People are working from different part of Country and learning other part of culture and carrying with them. Now, In North India, you can see Dandiya functions and Ganesh Visarjan which were never there, so multiculturalism in dissolving in India and coming as nation form. so "Proud to be Indian" is more over coming from people glorifying history, culture and then Indian constitution.
 
so "Proud to be Indian" is more over coming from people glorifying history, culture and then Indian constitution.

a few days ago, 69 people died of hunger in the tea plantations of darjeeling...

a few days ago, a boy in bangalore was attacked outside his house by a pack of five dogs... he was saved...

a few days ago, a man in bangalore was arrested under "rape act" just because the parents of his 17-year old girlfriend found out that the man and the lady were physically involved, consensually...

a few days ago, a lady in bangalore, mother of two kids, after she was tortured for long by her husband for dowry, was forcibly put into psychiatrist hospital just because her husband wanted to get rid of her... the lady's parents didn't help her because she was now her husband's property...

"proud to be indian", are you??

Now, In North India, you can see Dandiya functions and Ganesh Visarjan which were never there

it was bal gangadhar tilak who first promoted the ganesha processions in 1893 to become public events, supposedly for "nation-building"... i don't understand how could muslims, christians, sikhs and christians benefit from tilak's idea...

n 1893, Lokmanya Tilak transformed the annual domestic festival into a large, well-organized public event.[17] Tilak recognized the wide appeal of the deity Ganesha as "the god for everybody"

source - Ganesh Chaturthi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As far as you talk about Indian Nationalism that is bound by only one thing and that is Indian Constitution

what does the indian constitution say about honor killings, oppressions by money and indian government forces killing people from india ( the naxalites )??

The cultures are becoming more cosmopolitan. People are working from different part of Country and learning other part of culture and carrying with them.

you paint such a hopeful picture... but which is entirely false...
 
a few days ago, 69 people died of hunger in the tea plantations of darjeeling...

a few days ago, a boy in bangalore was attacked outside his house by a pack of five dogs... he was saved...

a few days ago, a man in bangalore was arrested under "rape act" just because the parents of his 17-year old girlfriend found out that the man and the lady were physically involved, consensually...

a few days ago, a lady in bangalore, mother of two kids, after she was tortured for long by her husband for dowry, was forcibly put into psychiatrist hospital just because her husband wanted to get rid of her... the lady's parents didn't help her because she was now her husband's property...

"proud to be indian", are you??

Lets compare all this incidents with our population of 1.2B. If you open news paper anywhere in the world, It will remain same so nothing is sort of which will suddenly disappear proud for the country you are living.

Though, there are such stories when Nation goes for shame and it happened in Dec' 12 Gangrape case or Babri Mosque demolition and everyone acknowledge the same. You will not find any support for them.
it was bal gangadhar tilak who first promoted the ganesha processions in 1893 to become public events, supposedly for "nation-building"... i don't understand how could muslims, christians, sikhs and christians benefit from tilak's idea...

source - Ganesh Chaturthi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Yes, It was Tilak who proposed the Idea and the reason was that religious gatherings can't be stopped by Britishers which was otherwise so It was strategical move. Society at that time was not at that religious fighting and even other religious people know that it is tactical move so they join in such functions. Even in Mumbai, people from all religions gather for that today.
what does the indian constitution say about honor killings, oppressions by money and indian government forces killing people from india ( the naxalites )??
Indian constitution says only one thing that people murdered others because of any reason need to be trailed in court and provide justice. Those who have done such a heinous act are rotting in Jail. Regarding Naxalism, It is different story. It starts with communism, goes to Maoism and ends with Naxalism. Anyone picking guns feel that it will snatch all its rights are nothing but wrong. If you can be adamant then others can be.
you paint such a hopeful picture... but which is entirely false...
I think, you missed my point. I was discussing something else. I was not promoting Patriotism but I was putting the right perspective to see the things in different glass.
 
* What kind of idiot would believe that Iqbal was a socialist?

* Gaddafi was mentally unstable, what does that say about your sanity after this 'genius' idea?
Gaddafi might be mentally unstable. But the guy who wrote that speech had brain in his head. Please read it.
 
Lets compare all this incidents with our population of 1.2B. If you open news paper anywhere in the world, It will remain same so nothing is sort of which will suddenly disappear proud for the country you are living.

not one of those incidents should have happened... each is a violation of human rights... and in truth, it is human rights and common sense and being natural that are really sacred... religion and god and ritualism are not primary...

Though, there are such stories when Nation goes for shame and it happened in Dec' 12 Gangrape case or Babri Mosque demolition and everyone acknowledge the same. You will not find any support for them.

i don't see priyanka chopra doing a film about irom sharmila, the real heroine of manipur... i don't see aamir khan talking grandly about honor killings... i don't see walks and actions against dogs... i see only silence about the 69 dead... i see only people gambling in "kaun banega crorepati", truly knowing that it is their only chance to get out of middle-class poverty...

------

socialism is the only path... a communist humanity is the only respectable ideal... please do read another related thread... ( The Worldwide Government )...
 
this thread is from an idea of @Ravi Nair and from further discussion with @FaujHistorian... though the presented region is south asia, the solution can be for every place humanity lives... presently and in future...

there was one urgent need for the british ensuring division of india in 1947... to have buffer states for countering the influence of communism/socialism in the southern hemisphere... if you look at the world map, and imagine that map in 1945... you will see presence of communism to the north of india ( china, soviet union )... to the west of india ( iran, afghanistan, west asia )... to the east of india ( present day indonesia and malaysia ).

tariq ali's book, "street fighting years", speaks of the massacre of indonesian communists in the 1960's.

the indian communist party was started in 1921 and had good influence... there were famous socialists, among them iqbal and bhagat singh... the western bloc after 1945 feared that if they didn't do something fast, south asia would become another domain of socialism... hence the partition, arranged by the british, encouraged hiddenly by usa... and their further meddling in afghanistan and iran... division of the land east of afghanistan into india and pakistan has only made south asians use nationalism as cover for their inherent biases and wrong cultures.

but speaking of the present... i see the problem called south asia to be among the top-five most problematic issues in the world... and ravi's post reminded me of muammar gaddafi's solution to kashmir... south asia, the continuous land-mass from afghanistan to bangladesh can be divided into administrative zones and the division must not be based on present lines ( culture and language )... the governance must be based on socialism ( jamahiri... i will explain jamahiriya in another thread )... the official language must be english in each zone, plus the cultural language must be hindi ( in present times, hindi is essentially urdu )... no other language must be permitted... no village must be permitted... every habitation must be a city... all weapons presently with national militaries must be confiscated.. those militaries converted into police force, of course with machine guns and armored personnel carriers ( like brdm 2 ) and helicopters ( like ka-50 ).

the above kind of division among humanity is the necessary future... the solution is as simple as people reading, talking with others over tea, accepting... the solution becomes impossible to achieve if people continue their unnecessary hatreds and nationalism...

@Ravi Nair @FaujHistorian @Spring Onion @Imran Khan @hinduguy @KingMamba @genmirajborgza786 @jbgt90 and everyone other south asian.

@Syrian Lion @Mahmoud_EGY @Ceylal @senheiser @Peter C @vostok @Götterdämmerung and all other peoples can also contribute.
first of all, I dont believe USA had anything to do with partition of India.. it was a long standing demand of Indian muslims represented by Muslim league and british gave them the gift for supporting them during war and prior to that.
And we were socialists till 90, so its not like we were capitalist from day 1. I have nothing against communism, I like many of their leaders, they are good hearted people, but it goes against human psyche and hence will never work.
What will be the political system btw, will we have democracy still?
 
No , partition in my opinion was a mistake, it weakened the Muslims , by dividing them in to three zones , while uniting the Hindus into one platform, I believe in this very strongly , thanks to Partition today, close to 55 crore Muslims that's 550 million Muslims ! of south-Asia is divided , & close to 900 million Hindus are united, how is this a good thing is beyond me , so NO Bhai, thanks but, no thanks ! no more partition or division, if anything this is the time for a "Confederation"

Bengali muslims and muhajirs have backstabbed Pakistanis in the back, i am glad there is Pakistan right now.
 
1. Iqbal Karl Marx and Socialism Lastupdate:- Mon, 14 Mar 2011 18:30:00 GMT GreaterKashmir.com


2. ISLAMIC SOCIALISM AND IQBAL


3. i have been reading english translation of "shikwa, jawaab-e-shikwa"...

are you as a moderator allowed to be rude and disrespectful to someone like me??
Brother, Iqbal might be a lot of things. But he evolved over the course of the Indian freedom movement and took Jinnah along with his ideas. His late year thoughts were around loony Islamic socialism, socialism apparently an in-built value in Islam. Due to his kichdi of ideas, even today Pakistanis cannot make sense of what their country stands for.
your word against 95 percent of libyans, and governments and peoples of russia, syria, venezuela, cuba, north korea, zimbabwe... the peoples of africa... heroes like nelson mandela and carlos... and your word against mine.

muammar gaddafi was other fine things too but i won't go off-topic...
In his late years, Gaddafi was mentally unstable. Read his reactions to the US threats and the Arab Spring. What revolutionary would plan to crown his sons next?
 
What will be the political system btw, will we have democracy still?


yes... decentralized direct-democracy... from the libyan "green book" of course... ;)

it is the most simple and natural political arrangement... ( The Green Book - I )... section "popular congresses and people's committees".
 
Without partition India would be 40-50 percent Muslim and inherently unstable. The mistake made was to give no proper thought to where the borders might be thus sparking the mass migration and bloody violence which took place. It was tragic that 1 million died but tens of millions would have died in a civil war.
 
yes... decentralized direct-democracy... from the libyan "green book" of course... ;)

it is the most simple and natural political arrangement... ( The Green Book - I )... section "popular congresses and people's committees".
I have to read through all that but I will take your word for it. how is it different from current way we do in India.

Without partition India would be 40-50 percent Muslim and inherently unstable. The mistake made was to give no proper thought to where the borders might be thus sparking the mass migration and bloody violence which took place. It was tragic that 1 million died but tens of millions would have died in a civil war.
the criticism is british left in a hurry without doing an orderly transition. 2 years was enough to do the partition properly.
 
this thread is from an idea of @Ravi Nair and from further discussion with @FaujHistorian... though the presented region is south asia, the solution can be for every place humanity lives... presently and in future...

there was one urgent need for the british ensuring division of india in 1947... to have buffer states for countering the influence of communism/socialism in the southern hemisphere... if you look at the world map, and imagine that map in 1945... you will see presence of communism to the north of india ( china, soviet union )... to the west of india ( iran, afghanistan, west asia )... to the east of india ( present day indonesia and malaysia ).

tariq ali's book, "street fighting years", speaks of the massacre of indonesian communists in the 1960's.

the indian communist party was started in 1921 and had good influence... there were famous socialists, among them iqbal and bhagat singh... the western bloc after 1945 feared that if they didn't do something fast, south asia would become another domain of socialism... hence the partition, arranged by the british, encouraged hiddenly by usa... and their further meddling in afghanistan and iran... division of the land east of afghanistan into india and pakistan has only made south asians use nationalism as cover for their inherent biases and wrong cultures.

but speaking of the present... i see the problem called south asia to be among the top-five most problematic issues in the world... and ravi's post reminded me of muammar gaddafi's solution to kashmir... south asia, the continuous land-mass from afghanistan to bangladesh can be divided into administrative zones and the division must not be based on present lines ( culture and language )... the governance must be based on socialism ( jamahiri... i will explain jamahiriya in another thread )... the official language must be english in each zone, plus the cultural language must be hindi ( in present times, hindi is essentially urdu )... no other language must be permitted... no village must be permitted... every habitation must be a city... all weapons presently with national militaries must be confiscated.. those militaries converted into police force, of course with machine guns and armored personnel carriers ( like brdm 2 ) and helicopters ( like ka-50 ).

the above kind of division among humanity is the necessary future... the solution is as simple as people reading, talking with others over tea, accepting... the solution becomes impossible to achieve if people continue their unnecessary hatreds and nationalism...

@Ravi Nair @FaujHistorian @Spring Onion @Imran Khan @hinduguy @KingMamba @genmirajborgza786 @jbgt90 and everyone other south asian.

@Syrian Lion @Mahmoud_EGY @Ceylal @senheiser @Peter C @vostok @Götterdämmerung and all other peoples can also contribute.

Bhai tu pagal hai. don't take it personally, it's just what hit my mind after i spent about 3 seconds thinking what you have written after reading your report, no offense bro. honestly. cheers !
 
His late year thoughts were around loony Islamic socialism, socialism apparently an in-built value in Islam.

i have myself said many times on this forum that the teachings of hazrat isa ( jesus ) and hazrat muhammad was early socialism... it was this that iqbal said and found progression in the russian revolution of 1917.

and i have promoting a post-religion humanity...

Due to his kichdi of ideas, even today Pakistanis cannot make sense of what their country stands for.

many pakistanis do not understand iqbal... they associate socialism with supposed pakistani victory over "godless" soviet union in afghanistan... which is why many pakistanis distort the writings of iqbal.

In his late years, Gaddafi was mentally unstable. Read his reactions to the US threats and the Arab Spring.

western bloc propaganda... first they called him a fanatic, then the western bloc puppet, anwar sadat, called him a mad man, then ronald reagan called him other things, along side that they called the history's biggest water supply project, "the man made river project" of libya, as the "pipe dream of a mad man", then obama and his slaves continued that in 2011 because they wanted to invade libya

in truth, he was one of the wisest leaders in human history... successor to nasser and che guevara... his jamahiriya theory... also called "third universal theory"... is the progression of socialism towards the ideal communist humanity.

i am a participant in the "international jamahiriya movement"... please do read the "green book" section i have linked earlier in the reply to "hindu guy".

below is a speech by muammar in the "united nations organization - general assembly" in 2009... one of the finest speeches in history...

below is the famous "dar dar zanga zanga" speech from february 2011... also called "mein antom" speech... also called "ila al amam" speech... he was more sane than most people alive, combined...

i am a humble student of him, of hugo chavez, of che, of nasser and of every revolutionary going back into far human history... i stand on the roads they have built...

What revolutionary would plan to crown his sons next?

incorrect... there was no crown in libya... muammar gaddafi was just the "guide of the revolution", not the president or any such position... the libyan jamahiriya had other legal leaders...

it was his daughter, ayesha, who gave rallying cries during the nato invasion of 2011... this same ayesha was also saddam hussain's lawyer in that fake court arranged by usa and iran.

his sons fought for the libyan jamahiriya... his youngest, khamis, became a legend... heroes they and the libyans...[/QUOTE]
 
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