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Rafale Finally Does It

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by James Dunnigan
September 20, 2009

After a decade of effort, France finally has an export customer for its Rafale jet fighter. Brazil will buy 36 of them, for over $4 billion. The Rafale is more (in terms of performance and cost) than Brazil needs, but France prepared the way with a multi-billion dollar submarine and technology transfer deal. This included assistance in designing and building nuclear submarines. That also includes four non-nuclear, 1,400 ton Scorpene subs, three of them built in Brazil, with French technical assistance. This would be part of the process by which Brazil would also build its first nuclear sub, based on the 4,700 ton French Barracuda.

France has had nothing but hard times trying to find export customers for its Rafale. Earlier this year, the production rate the Rafale was reduced from 14 a year to 11 a year. This was to slow down the delivery of Rafales, mainly because the Defense Ministry has decided that other things were more important. The new emphasis (and spending) is on peacekeeping and anti-missile defenses. Another reason for slowing down Rafale production was the lack of export orders. That will probably change, eventually. Brazil and Dassault (Rafale's manufacturer) do not expect to nail down the final contract until next year. So, technically, France has not made its first Rafale export sale yet. But they have never been this close. For French defense officials, that's close enough to party a little.

Late last year, France ordered another 60 Rafale jet fighters, and these will be delivered over the next six years. Officially, France plans to buy 294, and 60 have been delivered so far. Three years ago, the French Air Force activated its first squadron of Rafale fighters. The navy had received ten navalized Rafales three years before that, for service on the nuclear aircraft carrier Charles de Gaulle. The first prototype of Rafale was shown in 1986, and the aircraft should have entered service in the late 1990s.

While one of the more modern combat aircraft in the world, development of the Rafale was delayed by technical problems, and shortages of money. Entering development just as the Cold War ended meant that there was little enthusiasm to spend billions on an aircraft that would face no real opposition. But, facing the need to eventually replace all those Mirage fighters, development did get restarted, creating an aircraft superior to the American F-15s and F-16s, very similar to the F-18F, but inferior to the F-22 and F-35.

The Eurofighter, and several other very competitive aircraft have made export sales scarce. By 2006, the French armed forces had only ordered 120 Rafales (82 for the air force, 38 for the navy). The 28 ton aircraft sell for about $100 million each, and it is hoped the Brazil sale will spur other nations to take a chance on France.

---------- Post added at 09:59 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:59 AM ----------

good for you growler I guess :lol:
 
Good for Rafale , i must say it is a really good JET which has proved itslef over the years. in ground & Naval roles.
 
yeah i think Growler will be happy for sure...and to be honest no one doubts this jet, it is a really outstanding aircraft but not better than Eurofighter and very costly...still if they are selling the SPECTRA suite with it then it is worth the money...however i heard that export of SPECTRA technology is forbidden...if that is true then the export version of Rafael is really not worth the money...

Let us see what the Brazilinan Rafaels are equipped with...will make it clear what the deal is with SPECTRA...
 
---------- Post added at 05:08 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:08 AM ----------

[/COLOR]Spectra will be exported (They are even willing to give Spectra TOT to India if India orders 126 Rafale's ).Otherwise, the price would go down the drain.
 
yeah i think Growler will be happy for sure...
ya he ll have a good day at least today :lol:
coming back I agree Typhoon is rally a "typhoon" I love this AC but lesser than I love Grippen:smitten:
 
If Rafale are produced in great numbers, will it reduce the cost?

What is the unit price for the Brazil?

What would be the cost per unit for India if it orders 126?
 
The Mysterious MiG Mess
by James Dunnigan
October 4, 2009

Russian prosecutors have tried and convicted several aviation company executives for passing off defective, or used, aircraft parts as new. Many of these parts made their way into MiG-29 jet fighters that were sold to Algeria. Two years ago, Algeria told Russia that it was cancelling the 2007 purchase of 28 MiG-29 fighters (for $1.3 billion), and returning the ones already delivered. Algeria insisted that there were quality issues, and that some of the aircraft were assembled from old parts. Last year, Russia agreed to buy 28 MiG-29 fighters, from the manufacturer to prevent the MiG Aircraft Corporation from going bankrupt.

The MiG-29 has been in service for 25 years, but stocks of Cold War era spare parts are still around, and it was first thought that some were put to use to build the Algerian aircraft. These are supposed to be "new," but some of their components were definitely not. Some MiG employees were very unhappy with the corrupt practices involving aircraft parts. This sort of crime often extends to parts for airliners. The MiG employees felt personally responsible for any defective aircraft leaving their plant, and didn't want to be flying in an airliner containing fraudulent parts either. Russian prosecutors, already involved in an anti-corruption program underway for several years, jumped on the allegations, and quickly found senior executives presiding over widespread fraud in the aircraft components industry.

Meanwhile, Algeria found itself still needing some modern jet fighters. They were soon receiving offers from France for more modern Rafael fighters. France presented itself as a more useful ally than Russia, and France wanted to sell some of those Rafaels real bad. Russia responded with an offer the Algerians could not refuse, if only because there were billions of dollars worth of other Russian weapons that the Algerians were still accepting. But the loss of that large a sale threatened to sink the manufacturer, which has been losing out to Sukhoi, which has been much more successful selling its Su-27 and Su-30 series aircraft. Meanwhile, Algeria was offered Su-30s, and the new (not yet in service) Su-35. This was seen, by all, as a suitable alternative to the MiG-29s.
 
UAE also closing in for the deal sir
 
If Rafale are produced in great numbers, will it reduce the cost?
Normally yes, specially further developments and upgrades would be cheaper.
What is the unit price for the Brazil?

What would be the cost per unit for India if it orders 126?
Both unknown so far, because the competition in Brazil will only finish by the end of this month and a final decision is still not taken. It is also not known how many Rafale Brazil will buy, 36 are claimed by the media but there is a requirement of around 100 fighters and the fact that they want to produce them with ToT, makes more Rafales pretty likely.
In the Saudi competition 96 Rafale F2 was offered for €6 billion / $8,8 billion now and that would mean a unitcost of around $91 million.
 
Since the our new f-16 deal looks shaky & unpromising we perhaps should look in to other platforms perhaps start with the rafale!!
 
Btw why should i be happy with Brazil receiving Rafales? I am not a Brazilian :rofl:

yeah i think Growler will be happy for sure...and to be honest no one doubts this jet, it is a really outstanding aircraft but not better than Eurofighter and very costly...still if they are selling the SPECTRA suite with it then it is worth the money...however i heard that export of SPECTRA technology is forbidden...if that is true then the export version of Rafael is really not worth the money...

Let us see what the Brazilinan Rafaels are equipped with...will make it clear what the deal is with SPECTRA...

Kindly read the following..
Meanwhile, Algeria found itself still needing some modern jet fighters. They were soon receiving offers from France for more modern Rafael fighters. France presented itself as a more useful ally than Russia, and France wanted to sell some of those Rafaels real bad.
 
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So if we have $ 5 Billion then we can buy 2 squadrons of Rafale.... On the other hand, the entire PAF modernization plan is of $5 Billion.
 
So if we have $ 5 Billion then we can buy 2 squadrons of Rafale.... On the other hand, the entire PAF modernization plan is of $5 Billion.

Not whole modernization cost is 5 Billion dollars. Only F-16 deal is more than 5 billion. JF-17, Re-fullers, AWE&C,FC-20 all will also cost some billion.
 
Not whole modernization cost is 5 Billion dollars. Only F-16 deal is more than 5 billion. JF-17, Re-fullers, AWE&C,FC-20 all will also cost some billion.
Ya 5.1 Bn exact. I said earlier that PAF could switch to more modern jets like I still say we could get Grippen NG that was way way way better than at least F-16s that we are getting even now. But the problem is that this would create a Gap in the combat ability of PAF. With thunder in initial stage, Phasing out vipers would be risky which PAF wouldn't wana take as it would 3 to 4 years to get the 1st jet flying so that s why I think PAF went for MLU
 
Ya 5.1 Bn exact. I said earlier that PAF could switch to more modern jets like I still say we could get Grippen NG that was way way way better than at least F-16s that we are getting even now. But the problem is that this would create a Gap in the combat ability of PAF. With thunder in initial stage, Phasing out vipers would be risky which PAF wouldn't wana take as it would 3 to 4 years to get the 1st jet flying so that s why I think PAF went for MLU
F-16 deal comes with spares, training, infrastructure, and wide variety of armaments. With F-16 program we will have about 90 block 52+ equivalent or less MRCA. 36 Rafales of 90 F-16s. to be honest i would go with the F-16s. But Rafale is still a requirement which should be full filled even if it takes to sacrifice some FC-20 and JF-17s.
 
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